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Reequiping the EB


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#1 norfolkwesternhenry

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 07:42 PM

I was thinking about Via and how their Canadian is the cleanest, finest, most luxurious, and best looking train I've been on, yet it's also the oldest, including the Acela. I was wondering if reequiping the EB with all new stainless steel single level cars, and domes, running much longer consists to accomodate needs, like the 26 car beheamoth that Via runs during the summer. Domes should be a definite, along with the high class "Prestige" type service. This would have the side effect of relieving the "Superliner shortage", which could help boost ridership, by always having the ability to add more cars. I think the EB should be picked for this partly because I live in MSP, and partly because there first day (out of CHI) isn't just corn and wheat, it runs along the very scenic ex Milw line. It also has the highest ridership of any east/west LD train, competing with the CS for highest ridership all around. I am guessing that there are some of you out there that will disagree and say the CZ is the train to reequip, but here's the thing, if it's a better train, why does it have less riders, like why the Green Bay Packers are better than the Minnesota Vikings, they have won 4 superbowls, comparing to the Vikings ZERO, same with CZ vs EB

Edited by norfolkwesternhenry, 20 January 2017 - 07:44 PM.

Empire Builder MSP-CHI (2) CHI-MSP (2) MSP-PDX (1) MSP-CBS (5.5 H late) (1) MKE-MSP (1) MSP-SEA (1) Coast Starlate PDX-EMY (1.5H late) (1) California Zephyr DEN-SLC (1H late) (1) Hiawatha CHI-MKE (1) NE Regional WAS-BAL (1) WAS-NYP (1) Acela Express BAL-WAS (1) BOS-WAS (1) Late Shore (Limited service) CHI-BOS (On Time) (1) Capitol Limited WAS-CHI (1) Texas Eagle SAS-CHI (1.5 HR late, 1 HR late) (2) CHI-SAS (1) (55 min early) Wolverine DET-DER-ARB-CHI (35 Min late) (1) Cascades SEA-VAC (1)
Non-Amtrak: VIA: Corridor Service Q.C.-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor (1) Canadian: VAC-Winnipeg 4.5 H late (1) D. C. metro, Montreal Metro, Toronto subway, Portland streetcars, BART, Metra, NYC subway, Boston subway, Twin cities Blue/Green line
train cars travelled in: Superliner: Coach, Sleeper, Diner, CCC, SSL. Amfleet: LD Café, Café/Business, coach. Viewliner: Sleeper, Diner. Acela: Café, Business, quiet car. Horizon: Coach. Talgo: coach, diner, café; non Amtrak: ex CP Via Canadian Manor cars, Park car, diner,sleeper, Skyline lounge. LRC trainset: coach (tilt de-activated)


#2 norfolkwesternhenry

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 07:45 PM

I might be more inclined to reequip the CZ again if it was rerouted along the original Feather River route, rather than Donner Pass

Edited by norfolkwesternhenry, 20 January 2017 - 07:46 PM.

Empire Builder MSP-CHI (2) CHI-MSP (2) MSP-PDX (1) MSP-CBS (5.5 H late) (1) MKE-MSP (1) MSP-SEA (1) Coast Starlate PDX-EMY (1.5H late) (1) California Zephyr DEN-SLC (1H late) (1) Hiawatha CHI-MKE (1) NE Regional WAS-BAL (1) WAS-NYP (1) Acela Express BAL-WAS (1) BOS-WAS (1) Late Shore (Limited service) CHI-BOS (On Time) (1) Capitol Limited WAS-CHI (1) Texas Eagle SAS-CHI (1.5 HR late, 1 HR late) (2) CHI-SAS (1) (55 min early) Wolverine DET-DER-ARB-CHI (35 Min late) (1) Cascades SEA-VAC (1)
Non-Amtrak: VIA: Corridor Service Q.C.-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor (1) Canadian: VAC-Winnipeg 4.5 H late (1) D. C. metro, Montreal Metro, Toronto subway, Portland streetcars, BART, Metra, NYC subway, Boston subway, Twin cities Blue/Green line
train cars travelled in: Superliner: Coach, Sleeper, Diner, CCC, SSL. Amfleet: LD Café, Café/Business, coach. Viewliner: Sleeper, Diner. Acela: Café, Business, quiet car. Horizon: Coach. Talgo: coach, diner, café; non Amtrak: ex CP Via Canadian Manor cars, Park car, diner,sleeper, Skyline lounge. LRC trainset: coach (tilt de-activated)


#3 Ryan

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 08:07 PM

I want to live in the fantasy world that you live in where Amtrak is going to get the money to reequip either train.
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#4 zephyr17

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 08:09 PM

I want to live there, too.  As long as we in a fantasy world, how about one where the railroads made money on and kept passenger service and I could still ride Santa Fe's Super Chief?


SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr, Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-Orlando), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited, Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited, Via Canadian (CP route), Via Super Continental, Via Atlantic Limited, Via Hudson Bay, Via Skeena, Via Canadian (CN route), Via "Corridor" (Toronto-Montreal), BC Rail Cariboo Dayliner, Eurostar, Thalys, DB, Netherlands Rail, Austrian Railways, BR, Korail (conventional), Korail KTX


#5 SarahZ

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 08:10 PM

I want to live in the fantasy world where football statistics are relevant to train ridership and preferred scenery.

Amtrak Miles: 39,318

 

Amtrak Routes: Blue Water, California Zephyr, Capitol Limited, Carl Sandburg, City of New Orleans, Coast Starlight, Crescent, Empire Builder, Hiawatha, Illinois Zephyr, Lincoln Service, Southwest Chief, Texas Eagle, Wolverine

 

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#6 Carolina Special

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 09:05 PM

In this fantasy world, the trade offs that allowed passenger trains to keep on making money:

1) The interstate highways were never built. 2) Passenger jet service never became practical. 3) The Internet never happened, so passenger trains kept the lucrative mail contracts from the USPS.

#7 Thirdrail7

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Posted 20 January 2017 - 09:11 PM

If its luxury and length you're looking for, why stop at a 26 car VIA train? The Red and Blue RRBB circus trains should be up for sale in a few months. They are at least 60 cars each. If they're good enough for elephants, they should be good enough for you!


Edited by Thirdrail7, 20 January 2017 - 09:11 PM.

They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#8 neroden

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 08:18 AM

The USPS simply made a mistake in cancelling the mail contract. Now that quick package delivery is displacing brick-and-mortar shopping, and the USPS small-parcel business is BOOMING, the USPS's reliance on trucks is hurting them terribly. UPS and FedEx are using intermodal (freight rail).

Anyway, so much for that topic.

Does anyone actually know what the consist of the Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey Circus Trains is? I've been curious. Obviously nobody has much interest in the animal carriers, and there are an awful lot of boxcars for equipment which have next to no value, but the cars for the actual human performers are probably quite valuable on the private car market...
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#9 CCC1007

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 11:16 AM

Each of the two sets is about half and half flat cars and passenger cars, with all but four of them are either sleepers or "pie cars." The pie cars are equivalent to a buffet car.

#10 zephyr17

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 03:11 PM

In this fantasy world, the trade offs that allowed passenger trains to keep on making money:

1) The interstate highways were never built. 2) Passenger jet service never became practical. 3) The Internet never happened, so passenger trains kept the lucrative mail contracts from the USPS.

It's my fantasy world, so it has planes, too, in case I need to get someplace fast.  Kind of an old highway buff so we'll leave off  the interstates.

 

Hey, fantasies don't have to make sense.  Sort of like making the Empire Builder a Budd streamliner.


Edited by zephyr17, 21 January 2017 - 03:14 PM.

SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr, Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-Orlando), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited, Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited, Via Canadian (CP route), Via Super Continental, Via Atlantic Limited, Via Hudson Bay, Via Skeena, Via Canadian (CN route), Via "Corridor" (Toronto-Montreal), BC Rail Cariboo Dayliner, Eurostar, Thalys, DB, Netherlands Rail, Austrian Railways, BR, Korail (conventional), Korail KTX


#11 ScouseAndy

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:25 PM

Just get VIA to run a circuit over the Canadian route west bound and the EB east bound, yeah the journey time between Vancouver to Casper will be slighted longer (10 or so days compared to a few hours Casper to Vancouver but seeing as we are now in some crazy dream world where anything is possible why not?

#12 Carolina Special

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 04:29 PM

I'm sure somewhere in the multiverse those parallel Earths exist. Personally, I'd prefer the ones with dirigibles instead of airplanes. Along with the passenger trains, of course. :)

#13 zephyr17

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 05:39 PM

I'm sure somewhere in the multiverse those parallel Earths exist. Personally, I'd prefer the ones with dirigibles instead of airplanes. Along with the passenger trains, of course. :)

I am all for that one.  And with Route 66, too.


Edited by zephyr17, 21 January 2017 - 05:39 PM.

SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr, Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-Orlando), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited, Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited, Via Canadian (CP route), Via Super Continental, Via Atlantic Limited, Via Hudson Bay, Via Skeena, Via Canadian (CN route), Via "Corridor" (Toronto-Montreal), BC Rail Cariboo Dayliner, Eurostar, Thalys, DB, Netherlands Rail, Austrian Railways, BR, Korail (conventional), Korail KTX


#14 zephyr17

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 05:40 PM

Just get VIA to run a circuit over the Canadian route west bound and the EB east bound, yeah the journey time between Vancouver to Casper will be slighted longer (10 or so days compared to a few hours Casper to Vancouver but seeing as we are now in some crazy dream world where anything is possible why not?

Casper?  The Friendly Ghost?  Well, fantasy, so anything's possible, I guess.  Personally, I preferred Rocky and Bullwinkle.


Edited by zephyr17, 21 January 2017 - 05:42 PM.

SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr, Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-Orlando), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited, Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited, Via Canadian (CP route), Via Super Continental, Via Atlantic Limited, Via Hudson Bay, Via Skeena, Via Canadian (CN route), Via "Corridor" (Toronto-Montreal), BC Rail Cariboo Dayliner, Eurostar, Thalys, DB, Netherlands Rail, Austrian Railways, BR, Korail (conventional), Korail KTX


#15 SarahZ

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 06:57 PM

I'm sure somewhere in the multiverse those parallel Earths exist. Personally, I'd prefer the ones with dirigibles instead of airplanes. Along with the passenger trains, of course. :)

I am all for that one.  And with Route 66, too.

Seconded.

Amtrak Miles: 39,318

 

Amtrak Routes: Blue Water, California Zephyr, Capitol Limited, Carl Sandburg, City of New Orleans, Coast Starlight, Crescent, Empire Builder, Hiawatha, Illinois Zephyr, Lincoln Service, Southwest Chief, Texas Eagle, Wolverine

 

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#16 jebr

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 01:01 AM

Coming somewhat back on topic:

 

There's no reason to run 26-car consists if Amtrak can't fill them. And, frankly, they probably won't without losing even more money than they do now, with no appreciable gain in connectivity.

 

If we did somehow have enough money to re-equip a train (and the operational room to run it like the Canadian) I'd much rather see that money spread out across the system to bring food service and training up to a consistent, decent level, and leave the luxury trains to private car companies. The scenery through the Canadian Rockies, in my opinion, beats the US equivalent, and the Canadian has a large international market that I just don't see the Empire Builder (or any Amtrak train) easily gaining that. (A fair amount of the international passengers I spoke with on the Canadian were from other Commonwealth countries, which the US can't leverage as a selling point.)

 

Even if the scenery was still good, though, I'd much rather have my tax money spent on a way to improve frequency and access to Amtrak and related services than to focus on making a "vacation train" that serves more to slowly trudge along for people to gawk and not really be effective in connecting people to the places they want to go.



#17 jphjaxfl

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Posted 22 January 2017 - 04:23 PM

To show how times have changed, the Great Northern Railway, along with the Burlington and SP&S built completely new Empire Builders in 1947 and then again in 1951 and in the mid 1950s added the Dome Coaches and Great Domes Lounges.  I believe there were 5 or 6 complete sets of equipment each time.

Amtrak re-equipped the Empire Builder in 1979 with Superliners and built some additional cars in the early 1990s.  Nothing new since then.



#18 Lonestar648

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 12:40 PM

The ND oil boom that helped fill the EB seats and rooms has dwindled substantially. The CZ and CS could handle additional sleepers in season.  The cost and time required to totally rebuild a new train like the EB with 5 consists would be nearly prohibited without major Congressional capital improvement funds allocated.  I think using available capital to supplement existing consists during peak times so there are very few people turned away would help to increase needed revenue.  Also, spend money to make the travel experience more pleasurable.  Word of mouth is the best advertising and it is free.  Remember it takes 100 positive comments to negate a real negative comment when dealing with average people.


Trains Traveled On:
Texas Eagle                                      Sunset Limited                            California Zephyr                                Southwest Chief                Empire Builder            Capitol Limited           Lake Shore limited (NYP & BOS)      Crescent
Kentucky Cardinal                             Cardinal                                       Pere Marquette                                  Wolverines                        Lincoln Service            Empire Service          Keystone Service                               Acelas
NE Regionals                                    Pioneer                                        Desert Wind                                       Broadway Limited             Three Rivers                Southwest Chief        Coast Starlight                                    Empire Service
 
Amtrak Miles Logged: over 197,000


#19 norfolkwesternhenry

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 10:24 PM

How much would such a feat cost, if we contracted the cars and engines to Siemens, on board catering to some nice restaraunt based in CHI or SEA, and have a prestige option, only however many cars are needed, plus regular sleepers, and coaches, with proper lounges, with domes, a cafe, and a nice paint job

Empire Builder MSP-CHI (2) CHI-MSP (2) MSP-PDX (1) MSP-CBS (5.5 H late) (1) MKE-MSP (1) MSP-SEA (1) Coast Starlate PDX-EMY (1.5H late) (1) California Zephyr DEN-SLC (1H late) (1) Hiawatha CHI-MKE (1) NE Regional WAS-BAL (1) WAS-NYP (1) Acela Express BAL-WAS (1) BOS-WAS (1) Late Shore (Limited service) CHI-BOS (On Time) (1) Capitol Limited WAS-CHI (1) Texas Eagle SAS-CHI (1.5 HR late, 1 HR late) (2) CHI-SAS (1) (55 min early) Wolverine DET-DER-ARB-CHI (35 Min late) (1) Cascades SEA-VAC (1)
Non-Amtrak: VIA: Corridor Service Q.C.-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor (1) Canadian: VAC-Winnipeg 4.5 H late (1) D. C. metro, Montreal Metro, Toronto subway, Portland streetcars, BART, Metra, NYC subway, Boston subway, Twin cities Blue/Green line
train cars travelled in: Superliner: Coach, Sleeper, Diner, CCC, SSL. Amfleet: LD Café, Café/Business, coach. Viewliner: Sleeper, Diner. Acela: Café, Business, quiet car. Horizon: Coach. Talgo: coach, diner, café; non Amtrak: ex CP Via Canadian Manor cars, Park car, diner,sleeper, Skyline lounge. LRC trainset: coach (tilt de-activated)


#20 jis

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Posted 06 February 2017 - 11:21 PM

Way more than it costs to run the current service. There is no proverbial free lunch.




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