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Viewliner II - Part 2 - Production and Delivery


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#41 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 10:23 AM

Is the Viewliner Diner now permanent (well at least "Amtrak" permanent) on the Meteor? If so, could the Lake Shore Limited at least get a Heritage diner back before the second Viewliner Diner goes out to service?


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#42 GaSteve

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 10:28 AM

 

Can't help noticing that Viewliner II diners Montgomery, Nashville, and Tallahassee will be named for cities that once had Amtrak service but no longer do. Also ironic that Viewliner II diner Raleigh will never be seen on the Silver Star running through its namesake city. 

 

With enough cars in service, the Star could get its diner back.  Part of the issue right now is a logistical one - there simply are not enough diners to go around.

As for names, remember that Annapolis, for instance, never had Amtrak service.



#43 GaSteve

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 10:31 AM

Is the Viewliner Diner now permanent (well at least "Amtrak" permanent) on the Meteor? If so, could the Lake Shore Limited at least get a Heritage diner back before the second Viewliner Diner goes out to service?

Not likely.  One additional car is not sufficient.  You'd need to have enough additional ones in service to provide one for each train set.  And, I imagine that the newly delivered diners will replace Heritage cars before any new routes are added.



#44 A Voice

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 11:04 AM

Is the Viewliner Diner now permanent (well at least "Amtrak" permanent) on the Meteor? If so, could the Lake Shore Limited at least get a Heritage diner back before the second Viewliner Diner goes out to service?

 

As noted, there is thus far only the one Viewliner II diner in service among the Silver Meteor's multiple (four, I believe) equipment sets; The other sets necessarily use a Heritage diner (or the 8400) so there still aren't enough cars available for the Lake Shore.  Doesn't make sense to put a dining car back on just one set of equipment for 48/49 and leave the rest with an Amfleet II "diner lite" lounge.  Give it a few months, at least.     



#45 jis

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 12:29 PM

Also, I understand meanwhile another Heritage Diner has been removed from service. So there has been no net increase in the number of serviceable Diners yet.

#46 GaSteve

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 12:49 PM

Also, I understand meanwhile another Heritage Diner has been removed from service. So there has been no net increase in the number of serviceable Diners yet.

I expect that's what we'll see until all the Heritage cars are removed and replaced.  They'll take them offline beginning with the worst ones and the net will remain the same until they're all gone.



#47 neroden

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 05:00 PM

To operate the Meteor and the Star Amtrak needs 13 dining cars (inlcluding a shop count for when the cars are in for regular inspection, and one "protect" car at each terminal).  Apparently with Indianapolis and Annapolis in service... they only have 13 dining cars, because the active Heritage fleet is down to 10.

 

Restoration of dining car service on the LSL would require a total of 17 or 18 dining cars.  (Although I query why the Crescent kept its service when the LSL didn't, since the LSL had higher patronage in the dining car....)  How early this can happen probably depends on when various Heritage cars come due for inspections.  If there are a number which were inspected very recently and are good for a year, they might not *all* be replaced before LSL dining service is restored.


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#48 CCC1007

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 05:02 PM

To operate the Meteor and the Star Amtrak needs 13 dining cars (inlcluding a shop count for when the cars are in for regular inspection, and one "protect" car at each terminal).  Apparently with Indianapolis and Annapolis in service... they only have 13 dining cars, because the active Heritage fleet is down to 10.

 

Restoration of dining car service on the LSL would require a total of 17 or 18 dining cars.  (Although I query why the Crescent kept its service when the LSL didn't, since the LSL had higher patronage in the dining car....)  How early this can happen probably depends on when various Heritage cars come due for inspections.  If there are a number which were inspected very recently and are good for a year, they might not *all* be replaced before LSL dining service is restored.

could you please enlighten us on how you got 13 for the star and meteor? my count would be 10, eight in service and two protect. 11 if there is one in maintenance.



#49 Seaboard92

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 05:09 PM

The Star needs four trainsets. Now if they would bump the Silver Meteor back to its 2001 schedule (I think that was the year) it could run with three sets. And honestly I would love to move that train back to that slot because we don't need two trains trailing each other by two hours in Florida. Plus it would give the Carolinas south daylight service to Florida.

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#50 Ryan

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 05:12 PM

They should say new dining "car" until they receive another one.

There is the 8400 too, or doesn't that Viewliner Diner count anymore?

The 8400 isn't new and isn't a Viewliner II.

Edited by Ryan, 26 December 2016 - 05:13 PM.

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#51 jis

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 05:17 PM

My understanding is that the serviceable Heritage fleet is down to 9 now, for a total fleet of 11.

#52 swc34

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Posted 26 December 2016 - 11:12 PM

Can't help noticing that Viewliner II diners Montgomery, Nashville, and Tallahassee will be named for cities that once had Amtrak service but no longer do. Also ironic that Viewliner II diner Raleigh will never be seen on the Silver Star running through its namesake city. 


Don't forget about Columbus.

#53 Cho Cho Charlie

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 08:31 AM

They should say new dining "car" until they receive another one.

There is the 8400 too, or doesn't that Viewliner Diner count anymore?


The 8400 isn't new and isn't a Viewliner II.


I didn't realize that 8400 was being retired with the Heritage diners. Thks.
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#54 OBS

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 08:34 AM

I don't think they have any intention of retiring 8400.



#55 Cho Cho Charlie

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 08:38 AM

could you please enlighten us on how you got 13 for the star and meteor? my count would be 10, eight in service and two protect. 11 if there is one in maintenance.


I am kind-of wondering why the two "protect" diners, which just sit in stand-by at each terminus, couldn't be Heritage diners? I guess in the case of the Silvers, the best two Heritage diners? While I understand the need for two "protect" diners, it seems a waste to assign two brand new diners to this duty (yes, "They also serve who only stand and wait", Milton :D ).
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#56 Cho Cho Charlie

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 08:39 AM

I don't think they have any intention of retiring 8400.


Then why can't it be counted in as part of the new diner car fleet?
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#57 jis

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 08:47 AM

Why not use the less confusing terminology - "Non-Heritage Diner Fleet"?

It is indeed true that 4890 is not new by any reasonable definition of the word "new".

#58 neroden

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 08:55 AM

 

To operate the Meteor and the Star Amtrak needs 13 dining cars (inlcluding a shop count for when the cars are in for regular inspection, and one "protect" car at each terminal).  Apparently with Indianapolis and Annapolis in service... they only have 13 dining cars, because the active Heritage fleet is down to 10.

 

Restoration of dining car service on the LSL would require a total of 17 or 18 dining cars.  (Although I query why the Crescent kept its service when the LSL didn't, since the LSL had higher patronage in the dining car....)  How early this can happen probably depends on when various Heritage cars come due for inspections.  If there are a number which were inspected very recently and are good for a year, they might not *all* be replaced before LSL dining service is restored.

could you please enlighten us on how you got 13 for the star and meteor? my count would be 10, eight in service and two protect. 11 if there is one in maintenance.

 

20% of the time in the shop for inspections and maintenance.  This is about right, unfortunately, just based on FRA required inspections (it's slightly higher than the minimum time required by the FRA, as explained to me by someone who detailed all the required inspections).  So 8 * 1.2 = 9.6 cars needed.  One protect at each of the THREE termini (Miami, New York, and New Orleans) is 3 more (arguably 3 * 1.2 = 3.6).  9.6 + 3 = 12.6, or 9.6 + 3.6 + 13.2.  Either way, 13 are needed.


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#59 neroden

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 09:05 AM

I am kind-of wondering why the two "protect" diners, which just sit in stand-by at each terminus, couldn't be Heritage diners? I guess in the case of the Silvers, the best two Heritage diners? While I understand the need for two "protect" diners, it seems a waste to assign two brand new diners to this duty (yes, "They also serve who only stand and wait", Milton :D ).


Sure, they can be, if they haven't been retired. So let's compute with the assumption that Amtrak wishes to retire daily-use Heritage cars ASAP but is OK with using them as protect cars. Meteor, Crescent, and LSL == 11 active. 20% shop count adds 2.2, for a total of 13.2 active *Viewliner* dining cars needed, which rounds up to 14. 4 additional protect cars, one at each terminus, could be Heritage cars.

We have 2 Viewliner dining cars active. We need 12 more.

I am a little surprised that dining car service hasn't been suspended in favor of "diner lite" on the Crescent and I suspect it might be before this winter is over...

Anyway, we have 2 Viewliner dining cars (8400 and 68001). 2 more (perhaps 68000 and 68002) will equip the Meteor, except when one is in the shop, which is 20% of the time. For that, another (perhaps 68003) is needed.

If 5 more (68004 through 68008) arrive, that would equip the Crescent, with shop count.
If 4 more (68009 through 68012) arrive, that would equip the LSL, with shop count.
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#60 GaSteve

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Posted 27 December 2016 - 09:12 AM

 

 

To operate the Meteor and the Star Amtrak needs 13 dining cars (inlcluding a shop count for when the cars are in for regular inspection, and one "protect" car at each terminal).  Apparently with Indianapolis and Annapolis in service... they only have 13 dining cars, because the active Heritage fleet is down to 10.

 

Restoration of dining car service on the LSL would require a total of 17 or 18 dining cars.  (Although I query why the Crescent kept its service when the LSL didn't, since the LSL had higher patronage in the dining car....)  How early this can happen probably depends on when various Heritage cars come due for inspections.  If there are a number which were inspected very recently and are good for a year, they might not *all* be replaced before LSL dining service is restored.

could you please enlighten us on how you got 13 for the star and meteor? my count would be 10, eight in service and two protect. 11 if there is one in maintenance.

 

20% of the time in the shop for inspections and maintenance.  This is about right, unfortunately, just based on FRA required inspections (it's slightly higher than the minimum time required by the FRA, as explained to me by someone who detailed all the required inspections).  So 8 * 1.2 = 9.6 cars needed.  One protect at each of the THREE termini (Miami, New York, and New Orleans) is 3 more (arguably 3 * 1.2 = 3.6).  9.6 + 3 = 12.6, or 9.6 + 3.6 + 13.2.  Either way, 13 are needed.

 

There is no protect car kept at NOL.






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