A Price Discrepancy Between Amtrak.com and An Amtrak 1-800 Agent

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Dakota 400

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Yesterday, after receiving much appreciated advice from this Forum's members, I successfully reserved a Lower Level Roomette of my choice on the Empire Builder for July. Speak to an Amtrak agent was the advice rather than trying to book online in order to reserve a specific Roomette.

Prior to calling Amtrak, I checked their web site for my date of departure to determine what price was posted. "Two available at this price" was shown for a price that was $179 more than what the Roomette's price was when I last checked. The data to determine what the price was online, except for my AGR number (which I could not see how this could be entered prior to making the booking), was the same that I gave the Amtrak agent.

I called the Toll Free Number and spoke with a gentleman who was helpful and who was also a rail fan from the conversation I had with him. (I think it is good that Amtrak hires people who have experienced their service and understands about which the customer is asking.)

When the gentleman and I discussed the price for my Empire Builder journey, I was delighted to learn that he quoted, and I booked, the price for the Roomette that was $179 less than what Amtrak's web site showed.

Why the difference? I did not tell him what price I had seen. Should the online price not match what the agent is able to quote within minutes of checking those prices?
 
As a newbie, I'm going to venture a guess and say that Amtrak is probably assuming that more people will book online (increasing online demand) and thus driving prices up on the website. It's entirely possible that fewer people (by comparison) would be booking via phone, therefore keeping phone-quoted fares down.

I could be wrong though, and the more experienced AU members will probably correct me on this.

As a side note, I haven't fully figured out that "bucket" thing yet. :)
 
I've noticed the same thing when I booked last week.

When I checked online, the price was in the $350 range. (This included the 15% disability discount.) Because I wanted the H room on the SM, I called an agent. When the booking was complete, the price was in the $310 range - again with the 15% discount.
 
I routinely make my reservations by telephone agent after checking the website. I have never found the price provided by telephone less than that on the website. Occassionally, the price on the website is less. That situation was explained to be to be the result of someone booking between the time I looked at the website and the telephone agent pulling the room.

I have no explanation for the telephone agent's price being less other than possibly another room being released into inventory at a lower bucket between the time you looked at the website and the agent pulled the room. It has been my understanding that the prices on line and by phone should be the same. However, I could be wrong.
 
I routinely make my reservations by telephone agent after checking the website. I have never found the price provided by telephone less than that on the website.
Same here.

But based on comments in this thread, I will definitely keep calling to make reservations. (Also, I call to have control over which room I get.)
 
http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/69409-i-want-to-make-a-reservation-for-a-lower-level-roomette/

towards the end of the recent thread referenced by the above link (I hope I did this correctly) is an explanation of what probably occurred.
So here's what I know from my years of experience as a ticket agent (mind you, I am not in the IT or Yield Management department, so this is solely from personal experience and reading all the documentation I can get my hands on:

Amtrak's pricing for any particular inventory on any particular train on any particular date will be the best available fare at the exact moment in time when the price is requested from the reservation system, no matter which "touch point" you are using, be it Amtrak.com, the Amtrak app, the QuikTrak Kiosk, RailResSTARS (station agent) or RailRes (call center agent).

Let's take an example:

You are checking inventory on Acela Express 2153 from NYP-WAS. There are 5 seats remaining at the KA bucket, which is $249. You roll the idea around in your head, text your spouse, etc, and add that segment to your cart 3 minutes later. The price is now higher. Why?

I mentioned how 5 seats were remaining at the KA bucket. If a station agent pulls a seat for that same train, 2153 from NYP-BAL, there are now only 4 seats remaining at the KA bucket from NYP-WAS, even though the other passenger was only going as far as BAL.

During the same time-frame, a call center agent in Riverside pulls seats for a small group over the telephone. They want 4 tickets on 2153 from NYP-PHL. Now you have 0 seats remaining at the KA bucket from NYP-WAS, and the fare jumps to the full K fare of $280.

But wait, a passenger who had made a reservation on the Amtrak app from NYP-WAS on 2153 a week ago receives a call that his client can't make it, and cancels through the app, turning his ticket into an eVoucher. He had a KC bucket ticket which cost him $192. At that exact moment in time, ONE KC bucket fare at $192 (his old ticket) will jump into the available inventory, and it's going to the first person who pulls it. Once that seat is taken, the fare will jump back up to the full K bucket of $280.

On thing to note about this last example: Depending on the fare plan, this may or may not happen. For example if this passenger had booked a minimum of 14 days in advance, and received the special KF bucket ($120), when he canceled, this fare would ONLY show in availability if it was still a minimum of 14 days before departure. His $120 KF ticket would jump back into inventory at the next "regular" bucket, which is KD at $163. When that ticket was "claimed" by a customer or agent, the fare would again jump back up to $280.

As I hope you can see, there are many, many moving parts to this system, all based on what everyone else is doing. Anyone at any time can have an effect on the best available fare, depending on how they exchange or cancel their existing tickets, how they book new reservations.

I would argue that agents have an even bigger effect on inventory pricing. If someone walks up to a ticket window and is unsure or undecided, and has the agent pull one segment just to pick a different time, or a different date, it certainly MAY have an effect on availability, especially if there are few seats at the buckets the agent is working with.

Another good example here:

You are buying last minute because you don't have the advantage of knowing exactly when you'll be able to make it to PVD. You're catching a train to NYP, and arrive at the station just after Regional 175 departs. You go to the ticket window and purchase a ticket for Regional 177, departing at 6:14p, the next train to NYP. The fare is at the full Y bucket (also known as the Flexible Fare), and costs you $129. A little put off by the price, you pull out your phone at about 5:55p, and check the Amtrak app for pricing. You're shocked to see a ticket at $80. You run back up to the window and demand an explanation on why you were overcharged, and what good a ticket window is if there's a surcharge to buy from a ticket agent instead of the app. The agent checks the inventory, sees that there is now, in fact, one seat at the $80 bucket, exchanges your ticket, and provides you with the refund less any applicable refund fee, or gives you an eVoucher of $49 good for a year.

Here's a common explanation:

Train 177 originates at BOS and departs at 5:35p. It makes a station stop at BBY at 5:40p, and another at RTE at 5:50p. Just minutes before you check inventory on the Amtrak app at 5:55p, a couple who missed 177 at BOS ran back to the ticket office to cancel their tickets and exchanged for 179. They had booked the reservation a few days ago, and paid $80 per ticket, and those two seats went back into inventory for 177. One customer, who was purchasing at the QuikTrak in PVD grabbed one of the $80 tickets, and you were lucky enough to grab the other at the ticket window.

And finally, yet ANOTHER source of pricing changes:

Passengers who make reservations over the phone or at the station and choose to pay at a later time. These reservations, many times long distance sleepers, are assigned a Hold Limit. The hold limit is a date by which the reservation must be paid for by, in order to keep "Speculative Reservations" from going unpaid. The hold limit date is determined automatically based on how early the reservation is being made. For example, if you are booking 30 days or more in advance, the hold limit is 7 days (which is the maximum hold limit) from the date the reservation was created. Arrow does a "mass purging" of unpaid reservations very early the morning after the hold limit date. This is approximately 3-4am EST, 12-1am PST. All of those unpaid reservations will return back into inventory at this time. While most passengers pay for their reservations at the time of booking, this can certainly effect pricing.

These examples I've outlined are happening every day, around the clock, multiplied by the number of call center agents taking calls, the number of station agents on duty, the number of customers using QuikTrak, Amtrak.com, or the app. Seconds can literally make a difference.

I hope this finally clears up some confusion about Amtrak's reservation system and the bucket system of inventory. This probably should've been a new topic, but whatever...
 
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Surely as the OP, I do appreciate all of the information that has been provided. Who knew, outside of Amtrak employees, all of the complexities of pricing a reservation. Certainly not me!

I am very pleased with the price I paid and being able to obtain the Roomette that I feel will best suit my needs. I have traveled on Superliner Sleeping Cars before, but never in a Lower Level Roomette. Just another new travel experience for me as far as I am concerned.

Many, many thanks to all who chose to respond to my posting!!!
 
Fascinating talk on fare buckets; thanks for sharing. It explains the wildly varying fares I sometimes come across in the hours before departure.

So does canceled inventory always return to the bucket it was sold from? If a YD fare on a sold-out train cancels at the last minute, one would think this last remaining seat should be offered at full Y, not YD.

I wonder how often the yield management algorithms adjust bucket availability. (and how often humans intervene)
 
Fascinating talk on fare buckets; thanks for sharing. It explains the wildly varying fares I sometimes come across in the hours before departure.

So does canceled inventory always return to the bucket it was sold from? If a YD fare on a sold-out train cancels at the last minute, one would think this last remaining seat should be offered at full Y, not YD.

I wonder how often the yield management algorithms adjust bucket availability. (and how often humans intervene)
I'll have to keep an eye on it the next time it happens to give you an exact answer, but IIRC, yes, a canceled YD seat will jump back into inventory on a sold out train.

NOW, with that being said, if the Yield Management system is working correctly, it would make sure that there are very few YD bucket seats on that train to begin with, so the chances of seeing a YD bucket seat return back into inventory for a sold out train would be very slim.
 
Is it possible to book something like this online, or does it have to be done by an agent?

Train 98: KISSIMMEE, FL - WASHINGTON, DCDepart 12:56 PM, Saturday, January 21, 2017

1 ADULT RAIL FARE

$161.00

1 VIEWLINER ROOMETTE

$673.00

Subtotal

$834.00

Train 51: WASHINGTON, DC - CHICAGO (CHICAGO UNION STATION), ILDepart 11:00 AM, Sunday, January 22, 2017

1 VIEWLINER ROOMETTE

$0.00

Subtotal

$0.00
 
Is it possible to book something like this online, or does it have to be done by an agent?

Train 98: KISSIMMEE, FL - WASHINGTON, DCDepart 12:56 PM, Saturday, January 21, 2017

1 ADULT RAIL FARE

$161.00

1 VIEWLINER ROOMETTE

$673.00

Subtotal

$834.00

Train 51: WASHINGTON, DC - CHICAGO (CHICAGO UNION STATION), ILDepart 11:00 AM, Sunday, January 22, 2017

1 VIEWLINER ROOMETTE

$0.00

Subtotal

$0.00
Yes, you can. However, there is currently no availability for the roomette on 51, just one bedroom. I was showing $1,166 for KIS-CHI, including that last bedroom on 51.

You always want to book the legs together instead of separately, because a reservation of KIS-CHI prices cheaper than KIS-WAS and WAS-CHI separately due to the through-fare discount. Also, your connection wouldn't be guaranteed if you booked separate reservations individually.
 
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Let's take an example:

You are checking inventory on Acela Express 2153 from NYP-WAS. There are 5 seats remaining at the KA bucket, which is $249. You roll the idea around in your head, text your spouse, etc, and add that segment to your cart 3 minutes later. The price is now higher. Why?

I mentioned how 5 seats were remaining at the KA bucket. If a station agent pulls a seat for that same train, 2153 from NYP-BAL, there are now only 4 seats remaining at the KA bucket from NYP-WAS, even though the other passenger was only going as far as BAL.

During the same time-frame, a call center agent in Riverside pulls seats for a small group over the telephone. They want 4 tickets on 2153 from NYP-PHL. Now you have 0 seats remaining at the KA bucket from NYP-WAS, and the fare jumps to the full K fare of $280.

But wait, a passenger who had made a reservation on the Amtrak app from NYP-WAS on 2153 a week ago receives a call that his client can't make it, and cancels through the app, turning his ticket into an eVoucher. He had a KC bucket ticket which cost him $192. At that exact moment in time, ONE KC bucket fare at $192 (his old ticket) will jump into the available inventory, and it's going to the first person who pulls it. Once that seat is taken, the fare will jump back up to the full K bucket of $280.
This example seems to settle a long standing AU dispute of what happens to a cancelled ticket: does it get sold at the original price or the current price, after increasing inventory by the cancelled ticket(s)? To simplify:

current bucket (ka): $249

5 Tickets sold -> new current bucket (full K): $280

1 KC bucket ticket at $192 cancelled.

Next ticket sold: $192

This seems to say it goes back into inventory at the original price $192, not based on the current situation. The current price would be $249 since there were 5 left in the KA bucket, then 5 sold, then one put back, leaving one remaining at $249.
 
Is it possible to book something like this online, or does it have to be done by an agent?

Train 98: KISSIMMEE, FL - WASHINGTON, DCDepart 12:56 PM, Saturday, January 21, 2017

1 ADULT RAIL FARE

$161.00

1 VIEWLINER ROOMETTE

$673.00

Subtotal

$834.00

Train 51: WASHINGTON, DC - CHICAGO (CHICAGO UNION STATION), ILDepart 11:00 AM, Sunday, January 22, 2017

1 VIEWLINER ROOMETTE

$0.00

Subtotal

$0.00
Yes, you can. However, there is currently no availability for the roomette on 51, just one bedroom. I was showing $1,166 for KIS-CHI, including that last bedroom on 51.

You always want to book the legs together instead of separately, because a reservation of KIS-CHI prices cheaper than KIS-WAS and WAS-CHI separately due to the through-fare discount. Also, your connection wouldn't be guaranteed if you booked separate reservations individually.
Woops, I'm kind of new at this. I didn't book guaranteed connections because of the way I spoke to the agent. It is a ten-segment trip, but there are layovers and one connection booked correctly so it is really only two connections (from and to The Empire Builder at Chicago) that are not guaranteed. For the first connection, I am only taking the train from St.Paul and I already planned to just fly to Chicago to catch #48 if #8 is running very late. But I called Amtrak to clarify that I want a "guaranteed" connection between #51 and #27 in Chicago on my return trip, and hopefully my reservation now reflects this.

Not sure if it would have been different if I had booked on Amtrak.com.
 
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Let's take an example:

You are checking inventory on Acela Express 2153 from NYP-WAS. There are 5 seats remaining at the KA bucket, which is $249. You roll the idea around in your head, text your spouse, etc, and add that segment to your cart 3 minutes later. The price is now higher. Why?

I mentioned how 5 seats were remaining at the KA bucket. If a station agent pulls a seat for that same train, 2153 from NYP-BAL, there are now only 4 seats remaining at the KA bucket from NYP-WAS, even though the other passenger was only going as far as BAL.

During the same time-frame, a call center agent in Riverside pulls seats for a small group over the telephone. They want 4 tickets on 2153 from NYP-PHL. Now you have 0 seats remaining at the KA bucket from NYP-WAS, and the fare jumps to the full K fare of $280.

But wait, a passenger who had made a reservation on the Amtrak app from NYP-WAS on 2153 a week ago receives a call that his client can't make it, and cancels through the app, turning his ticket into an eVoucher. He had a KC bucket ticket which cost him $192. At that exact moment in time, ONE KC bucket fare at $192 (his old ticket) will jump into the available inventory, and it's going to the first person who pulls it. Once that seat is taken, the fare will jump back up to the full K bucket of $280.
This example seems to settle a long standing AU dispute of what happens to a cancelled ticket: does it get sold at the original price or the current price, after increasing inventory by the cancelled ticket(s)? To simplify:

current bucket (ka): $249

5 Tickets sold -> new current bucket (full K): $280

1 KC bucket ticket at $192 cancelled.

Next ticket sold: $192

This seems to say it goes back into inventory at the original price $192, not based on the current situation. The current price would be $249 since there were 5 left in the KA bucket, then 5 sold, then one put back, leaving one remaining at $249.
This matches up with my own firsthand experience, at least back when I used to watch for such things, but the only way to know for certain is to review the transactions logs and/or audit tables in ARROW.
 
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