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#101 neroden

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 01:59 PM

Our Cardinal haters best think again the August ridership of Cardinal multiplied by 7/3 would exceed Capitol, Crescent, CNO.

The Capitol Limited is actually the "sick man of the East", the worst-peforming train east of the Mississippi financially speaking.    The Cardinal is more financially successful than the Capitol Limited now and would be much more successful if daily.

 

The Capitol Limited - Pennsylvanian through cars need to happen sooner, not later; the DC-Pittsburgh leg is weak compared to Philadelphia-Chicago demand.  The CL should probably switch entirely to single-level cars and be reborn as the Broadway Limited, with a lower-capacity branch extending from Pittsburgh to DC like the Albany-Boston branch of the LSL.


Edited by neroden, 25 October 2017 - 02:01 PM.

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#102 jis

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 02:02 PM

Because the Cap is a weaker train one tends to get the lowest fares on it. But it is a favorite for Amtrak staff for their commute from HQ to Chicago apparently. :)



#103 WoodyinNYC

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 08:47 PM

 

Our Cardinal haters best think again the August ridership of Cardinal multiplied by 7/3 would exceed Capitol, Crescent, CNO.

...

The CL should probably switch entirely to single-level cars and be reborn as the Broadway Limited, with a lower-capacity branch extending from Pittsburgh to DC like the Albany-Boston branch of the LSL.

If we want to switch the Capitol Ltd to single-level cars, and send that Superliner equipment out West, somebody needs to start working with CAF. Won't we need more Viewliner diners and more Viewliner sleepers to make that switch?  (And of course, we'll need lots more single-level coaches and lounges, too, of course.)



#104 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:11 PM

 

 

Our Cardinal haters best think again the August ridership of Cardinal multiplied by 7/3 would exceed Capitol, Crescent, CNO.

...

The CL should probably switch entirely to single-level cars and be reborn as the Broadway Limited, with a lower-capacity branch extending from Pittsburgh to DC like the Albany-Boston branch of the LSL.

If we want to switch the Capitol Ltd to single-level cars, and send that Superliner equipment out West, somebody needs to start working with CAF. Won't we need more Viewliner diners and more Viewliner sleepers to make that switch?  (And of course, we'll need lots more single-level coaches and lounges, too, of course.)

 

 

I know how we can get some spare Viewliner diners and sleepers!


Trains Traveled: Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA), Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI), Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS), Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), , Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL), Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX), California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY), City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL), Texas Eagle (CHI-DAL)
Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/


#105 WoodyinNYC

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 12:01 AM

 

 

 

Our Cardinal haters best think again the August ridership of Cardinal multiplied by 7/3 would exceed Capitol, Crescent, CNO.

...

The CL should probably switch entirely to single-level cars and be reborn as the Broadway Limited, with a lower-capacity branch extending from Pittsburgh to DC like the Albany-Boston branch of the LSL.

If we want to switch the Capitol Ltd to single-level cars, and send that Superliner equipment out West, somebody needs to start working with CAF. Won't we need more Viewliner diners and more Viewliner sleepers to make that switch?  (And of course, we'll need lots more single-level coaches and lounges, too, of course.)

I know how we can get some spare Viewliner diners and sleepers!

Why are you arguing against ordering more equipment for Amtrak?



#106 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 08:03 AM

 

 

 

 

Our Cardinal haters best think again the August ridership of Cardinal multiplied by 7/3 would exceed Capitol, Crescent, CNO.

...

The CL should probably switch entirely to single-level cars and be reborn as the Broadway Limited, with a lower-capacity branch extending from Pittsburgh to DC like the Albany-Boston branch of the LSL.

If we want to switch the Capitol Ltd to single-level cars, and send that Superliner equipment out West, somebody needs to start working with CAF. Won't we need more Viewliner diners and more Viewliner sleepers to make that switch?  (And of course, we'll need lots more single-level coaches and lounges, too, of course.)

I know how we can get some spare Viewliner diners and sleepers!

Why are you arguing against ordering more equipment for Amtrak?

 

 

I'm not.

 

I'm saying if we want something and we don't have the equipment to get it there are two ways to get the equipment...

 

A) Beg for the money like we've had the last 46 years and we know what the track record has been doing so. If you can get the equipment to get the through cars running, more power to you.

 

B) Get the equipment by, well you know what I'm going to say by now.

 

One costs us X amount of money and X amount of equipment, one uses the money and equipment we're spending now and how much are we really losing? The 5 people from Thurmond, WV?


Trains Traveled: Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA), Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI), Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS), Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), , Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL), Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX), California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY), City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL), Texas Eagle (CHI-DAL)
Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/


#107 Bob Dylan

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 09:16 AM

Oh no, the Cardinal Killer strikes again!
"There's Something About a Train! It's Magic!"-- 1970s Amtrak Ad
 "..My heart is warm with the friends I make,and better friends I'll not be knowing,
Yet there isn't a train I wouldn't take,No matter where its going!.." -Edna St. Vincent Millay

#108 WoodyinNYC

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 10:22 AM

Oh no, the Cardinal Killer strikes again!

A Halloween costume? Dressing as a cannibal?



#109 capltd29

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 12:33 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Our Cardinal haters best think again the August ridership of Cardinal multiplied by 7/3 would exceed Capitol, Crescent, CNO.

...

The CL should probably switch entirely to single-level cars and be reborn as the Broadway Limited, with a lower-capacity branch extending from Pittsburgh to DC like the Albany-Boston branch of the LSL.

If we want to switch the Capitol Ltd to single-level cars, and send that Superliner equipment out West, somebody needs to start working with CAF. Won't we need more Viewliner diners and more Viewliner sleepers to make that switch?  (And of course, we'll need lots more single-level coaches and lounges, too, of course.)

I know how we can get some spare Viewliner diners and sleepers!

Why are you arguing against ordering more equipment for Amtrak?

 

 

I'm not.

 

I'm saying if we want something and we don't have the equipment to get it there are two ways to get the equipment...

 

A) Beg for the money like we've had the last 46 years and we know what the track record has been doing so. If you can get the equipment to get the through cars running, more power to you.

 

B) Get the equipment by, well you know what I'm going to say by now.

 

One costs us X amount of money and X amount of equipment, one uses the money and equipment we're spending now and how much are we really losing? The 5 people from Thurmond, WV?

 

Its a little harder for the "5 people" in Thurmond, WV to fly to Chicago. You can get a lot of direct flights from Philadelphia to Chicago. I've done it several times.


not rich enough for a tax cut...

#110 jis

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Posted 28 October 2017 - 02:48 PM

And you know what the rest of us are going to say too I suppose. And so the world goes around one more time and a thread gets fruitlessly longer in AU


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#111 Thirdrail7

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 09:15 PM


One costs us X amount of money and X amount of equipment, one uses the money and equipment we're spending now and how much are we really losing? The 5 people from Thurmond, WV?

 

 

We'd sacrifice a stop that had 100 times more riders than population a few years ago. I can't think of any other stop that can make that claim. If anyone deserves a stop, its them!  ^_^


They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#112 Anthony V

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 05:30 PM

Improvements to the Cardinal would include making the train daily to boost ridership, for starters. In addition, the Hoosier State would be moved to a schedule independent of the Cardinal and go to twice daily service between CHI-IND, and extend both of those round trips in two different directions to two different cities. One of the HS round trips would be extended south to Louisville and Nashville as a day train, and the other would extend to Cincinnati, giving that city daylight service.



#113 WoodyinNYC

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 08:36 PM

Improvements to the Cardinal would include making the train daily to boost ridership, for starters.

 

YES

 

In addition, the Hoosier State would be moved to a schedule independent of the Cardinal and go to twice daily service between CHI-IND,

 

YES

 

and extend both of those round trips in two different directions to two different cities. One of the Hoosier State round trips would be extended south to Louisville and Nashville as a day train,

 

YES

 

and the other would extend to Cincinnati, giving that city daylight service.

 

YES

AND split the Cardinal at Indy to send a section to St Louis. (This possibility was raised in the PRIIA study of the Cardinal back in 2009 or so. It was not in the purview of that report, but was deemed worth further study.)

 

AND invest in upgrades to the Indy-CHI route. To start, Indiana paid for a study that proposed some $225 million to take 29 minutes out of the run time from Indianapolis to the Illinois state line.

 

http://www.in.gov/in...alysis_2013.pdf

 

The faster run would allow the Cardinal an earlier arrival in CHI (now 10:00 a.m.) and an earlier return to Indy (now midnight). The faster time on this segment would mean faster trips to Louisville and Cincy as well. Of course, it would probably be possible to cut at least another half an hour from the Cincy-Indy segment or more. Again that would allow an earlier arrival in CHI for the Cardinal (or a later morning departure from Indy).

 

Up until now, Amtrak's chronic shortage of equipment has prevented even much speculation about adding frequencies Indy-CHI or extending the Hoosier State corridor to Cincinnati/Louisville. But within 3 or 4 years Siemens will be delivering new equipment for the Midwest corridors. Adding another dozen, or two dozen, cars to that order should be simply a matter of money.

 

Of course, there's no money now, but things can change quickly, and not always for the worse. A political upheaval or/or another deep recession could lead to Stimulus-type funding to pay for the needed infrastructure upgrades.



#114 dlagrua

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 09:57 AM

This thread started out by talking about extending the Amtrak route map and it has gone off course. My thoughts on the comments for Amtrak service to the upper peninsula of Michigan, is that it will never happen.  The only chance ( and slight at that) would be for a state operated train. .



#115 jebr

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 01:22 PM

This thread started out by talking about extending the Amtrak route map and it has gone off course. My thoughts on the comments for Amtrak service to the upper peninsula of Michigan, is that it will never happen.  The only chance ( and slight at that) would be for a state operated train. .

 

Why couldn't Amtrak operate a Michigan upper peninsula train? It'd probably have to be state-funded, sure, but Amtrak could still be the one hired to operate the train. Michigan does that with their Michigan Service trains already.



#116 StanJazz

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:11 PM

A Michigan upper peninsular train would have to go through Wisconsin. Looking at Google maps there is no rail line from lower to upper Michigan. There is no chance Wisconsin under with the current government would pay their share.



#117 Anthony V

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:39 PM

This thread started out by talking about extending the Amtrak route map and it has gone off course. My thoughts on the comments for Amtrak service to the upper peninsula of Michigan, is that it will never happen.  The only chance ( and slight at that) would be for a state operated train. .

The U.P. of Michigan doesn't have enough population to support a passenger train there. The closest population center to that region that MAY be able to support a passenger train is Green Bay.



#118 brianpmcdonnell17

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:51 PM

This thread started out by talking about extending the Amtrak route map and it has gone off course. My thoughts on the comments for Amtrak service to the upper peninsula of Michigan, is that it will never happen.  The only chance ( and slight at that) would be for a state operated train. .

The U.P. of Michigan doesn't have enough population to support a passenger train there. The closest population center to that region that MAY be able to support a passenger train is Green Bay.
I would be very surprised if Green Bay couldn't support a passenger train if funding was provided. The density there is greater than on the Carl Sandburg/Illinois Zephyr line, which has 2 daily frequencies over the whole route and 4 as far west as Galesburg.

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<p>Routes Travelled: CL WAS-CHI, Card. CHI-WAS, Caro. CLT-RGH, CS SEA-LAX, CZ CHI-RIC, Cre. BAL-ATL, EB SEA-CHI, ES NYG/NYP-NFL, LSL BOS/NYP-CHI, ML ALB-NYP, NER FBG-RVR+WAS-BOS, PS LAX-ANA, Pen. NYP-PGH, Pie. RGH-CLT, SM ORL-NYP, SS FTL-NYP

#119 Anthony V

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:53 PM

 

Improvements to the Cardinal would include making the train daily to boost ridership, for starters.

 

YES

 

In addition, the Hoosier State would be moved to a schedule independent of the Cardinal and go to twice daily service between CHI-IND,

 

YES

 

and extend both of those round trips in two different directions to two different cities. One of the Hoosier State round trips would be extended south to Louisville and Nashville as a day train,

 

YES

 

and the other would extend to Cincinnati, giving that city daylight service.

 

YES

AND split the Cardinal at Indy to send a section to St Louis. (This possibility was raised in the PRIIA study of the Cardinal back in 2009 or so. It was not in the purview of that report, but was deemed worth further study.)

 

AND invest in upgrades to the Indy-CHI route. To start, Indiana paid for a study that proposed some $225 million to take 29 minutes out of the run time from Indianapolis to the Illinois state line.

 

http://www.in.gov/in...alysis_2013.pdf

 

The faster run would allow the Cardinal an earlier arrival in CHI (now 10:00 a.m.) and an earlier return to Indy (now midnight). The faster time on this segment would mean faster trips to Louisville and Cincy as well. Of course, it would probably be possible to cut at least another half an hour from the Cincy-Indy segment or more. Again that would allow an earlier arrival in CHI for the Cardinal (or a later morning departure from Indy).

 

Up until now, Amtrak's chronic shortage of equipment has prevented even much speculation about adding frequencies Indy-CHI or extending the Hoosier State corridor to Cincinnati/Louisville. But within 3 or 4 years Siemens will be delivering new equipment for the Midwest corridors. Adding another dozen, or two dozen, cars to that order should be simply a matter of money.

 

Of course, there's no money now, but things can change quickly, and not always for the worse. A political upheaval or/or another deep recession could lead to Stimulus-type funding to pay for the needed infrastructure upgrades.

 

You are spot on with your thinking. I forgot to mention the St. Louis section of the Cardinal that was proposed in the 2010 PIP. That would bring service back to Terre Haute, IN. I think that this section should be extended to Kansas City to serve the endpoints last served by the National Limited in 1979. The train would also provide a third frequency along the Missouri River Runner route, and would connect with the CONO at Effingham, TE at STL, and SWC at KCY.

The extensions of the proposed two frequencies of the Hoosier State would be done once the route between Dyer and Chicago is changed and running time for that segment is shortened considerably. That way, both trains can have an easier time being competitive with driving, especially the day train to Nashville.



#120 Anthony V

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 02:55 PM

 

 

This thread started out by talking about extending the Amtrak route map and it has gone off course. My thoughts on the comments for Amtrak service to the upper peninsula of Michigan, is that it will never happen.  The only chance ( and slight at that) would be for a state operated train. .

The U.P. of Michigan doesn't have enough population to support a passenger train there. The closest population center to that region that MAY be able to support a passenger train is Green Bay.
I would be very surprised if Green Bay couldn't support a passenger train if funding was provided. The density there is greater than on the Carl Sandburg/Illinois Zephyr line, which has 2 daily frequencies over the whole route and 4 as far west as Galesburg.

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Such a train would be very popular during Bears-Packers games as fans can ride the train to the stadium where the game is being played.






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