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NW mudslide season 2016-17


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#61 Johanna

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Posted 26 April 2017 - 10:06 PM

Sorry for the foggy thinking...I guess what I had in mind was more the situation where Amtrak decides they can't offer any alternate transportation, and I'm stuck trying to get a seat on an existing bus service (e.g. BoltBus).  There are plenty of bus seats available now, but if several trains' worth of people start buying them all at once, I can see them going quickly.  Other options I might have (getting a last-minute flight to Wenatchee, or staying another night in Portland and taking the 28 the next day to join up with the 8 I'm booked to be on after one night in Leavenworth) are also things I'd want to take care of sooner rather than later.  So if I do need to arrange my own alternate plans, I want to be able to know that as early as possible.

 

I guess my question is, what's the best source of up-to-the-minute information on whether my train is running or not?  Is it amtrak.com? (Even though the service disruption announcement for yesterday's mudslide still says they're "seeking alternate transportation" - you'd think they'd know by now whether they'd found any or not.)  1-800-USA-RAIL? The station personnel at PDX?  Some other source I don't know about?



#62 John Bobinyec

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 12:31 PM

Are these frequent mudslides a recent phenomenon, say within the last 15 years?  What I'm wondering is whether frequent mudslides have always occurred in these areas or are they occurring just "recently".  It seems to me that if they have always occurred, the owning railroad would have by now either fixed the problem at that location, or rerouted traffic to another line.

 

jb


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#63 CCC1007

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 01:00 PM

As far as I know the problem is development near the line that is leading to unstable slopes along the rail line due to added weight on the soil.

#64 CHamilton

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 01:06 PM

Here's WSDOT's brochure regarding mudslides for property owners.

http://www.wsdot.wa....de_Brochure.pdf


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#65 John Bobinyec

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 01:08 PM

As far as I know the problem is development near the line that is leading to unstable slopes along the rail line due to added weight on the soil.

So the mudslides are coming down onto the tracks, rather than sliding out from under them?

 

jb


LDS Been On:

 

Old: Lake Cities Express (EL), Montrealer (AT), Laurentian (D&H)

RBBB: St. Petersburg - W. Palm Beach, Lakeland - Atlanta, Baltimore - NYC, Rochester, NY - Hartford, Albuquerque - Salt Lake City, Denver - Chicago

Modern: Ocean (VIA), Silver Star, Capitol Limited, Texas Eagle, Autotrain, Carolinian

 


#66 CCC1007

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 01:11 PM

As far as I know the problem is development near the line that is leading to unstable slopes along the rail line due to added weight on the soil.

So the mudslides are coming down onto the tracks, rather than sliding out from under them?
 
jb
Yep

#67 John Bobinyec

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 01:16 PM

Thanks, Charlie, I see the brochure.

 

So are the developers who built the houses up on the bluff being required to pay for the damage they're causing?

 

jb


LDS Been On:

 

Old: Lake Cities Express (EL), Montrealer (AT), Laurentian (D&H)

RBBB: St. Petersburg - W. Palm Beach, Lakeland - Atlanta, Baltimore - NYC, Rochester, NY - Hartford, Albuquerque - Salt Lake City, Denver - Chicago

Modern: Ocean (VIA), Silver Star, Capitol Limited, Texas Eagle, Autotrain, Carolinian

 


#68 CCC1007

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 01:20 PM

Here is a video from a few years ago of why BNSF chooses to stop all passenger traffic for 48 hours...

https://youtu.be/UeT0m-hpD_4

#69 John Bobinyec

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 05:31 PM

Well that's a pickle.  The obvious solution of cutting back the hillside won't work because there are houses up there.  So what other solutions are being pursued?  Putting up a monstrous wall?  Reroute trains?

 

jb


LDS Been On:

 

Old: Lake Cities Express (EL), Montrealer (AT), Laurentian (D&H)

RBBB: St. Petersburg - W. Palm Beach, Lakeland - Atlanta, Baltimore - NYC, Rochester, NY - Hartford, Albuquerque - Salt Lake City, Denver - Chicago

Modern: Ocean (VIA), Silver Star, Capitol Limited, Texas Eagle, Autotrain, Carolinian

 


#70 west point

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 08:12 PM

These mudslides are a problem all along the west coast SFO - Vancouver, BC. California has been closing US-101 several times. Here is the latest.


Capitol Corridor <capitolcorridor@public.govdelivery.com>

Today at 2:45 PM

Due to continuing landslides on US 101, connecting bus service between Ukiah and Arcata will remain cancelled through Tuesday, May 2. The Martinez-Arcata buses will operate only between Martinez and Ukiah through this date.


Further Sound transit has done a fairly job of mitigating landslides with a large decrease north of line north of Seattle. However this rash south of SEA is new this year and WA DOT will probably take the 2-3 years to engineer and solve the problems south of Tacoma that it took Sound transit.

#71 TrackWalker

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 08:00 AM

Mudslides along the coast line is a never ending story.

This is just north/east of Everett Jct. The same location as the slide in December 2012.

 

34338328095_c9fe5b74b9_b.jpg



#72 John Bobinyec

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Posted 29 April 2017 - 05:20 PM

So the problem is a long-standing one.  One possible solution would be to build "mud sheds" much like the SP built snow sheds.

 

jb


LDS Been On:

 

Old: Lake Cities Express (EL), Montrealer (AT), Laurentian (D&H)

RBBB: St. Petersburg - W. Palm Beach, Lakeland - Atlanta, Baltimore - NYC, Rochester, NY - Hartford, Albuquerque - Salt Lake City, Denver - Chicago

Modern: Ocean (VIA), Silver Star, Capitol Limited, Texas Eagle, Autotrain, Carolinian

 


#73 neroden

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 04:45 PM

The Everett-Seattle route is simply no good.  It was basically built at the bottom of seaside cliffs... which is stupid.  It's going to be flooded by sea level rise eventually.   In the long run it needs to be replaced with an inland route.  Unfortunately the inland route which used to exist (the NP route) has been severed in multiple places.

 

The mudslides between Vancouver WA and Tacoma are another mater, and are a newer phenomeon.  That route's not bad.  It ought to be possible to permanently fix them.


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#74 norfolkwesternhenry

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Posted 30 April 2017 - 05:02 PM

So the problem is a long-standing one.  One possible solution would be to build "mud sheds" much like the SP built snow sheds.
 
jb

that would be a good idea, but I'm not sure they would be too cheap, and they would need to be extremely strong as dirt builds up where snow melts every summer

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#75 fairviewroad

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Posted 01 May 2017 - 10:43 AM

 

So the problem is a long-standing one.  One possible solution would be to build "mud sheds" much like the SP built snow sheds.
 
jb

that would be a good idea, but I'm not sure they would be too cheap, and they would need to be extremely strong as dirt builds up where snow melts every summer

 

 

I believe the technology is called "tunnel."



#76 Karl1459

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 12:31 PM

The Everett-Seattle route is simply no good.  It was basically built at the bottom of seaside cliffs... which is stupid.  It's going to be flooded by sea level rise eventually.   In the long run it needs to be replaced with an inland route.  Unfortunately the inland route which used to exist (the NP route) has been severed in multiple places.

 

The mudslides between Vancouver WA and Tacoma are another mater, and are a newer phenomeon.  That route's not bad.  It ought to be possible to permanently fix them.

 

There are still some geology issues. Between Vancouver WA and Kelso the bluffs are largely fairly recent (in geologic terms) uplift hills with the river cutting through. The hills are made up of random inclined layers of clay, alluvial rock, some ancient seabed, volcanic debris, and lava intrusion. The clay tends to be fairly impervious to water so when water gets to it there is an instant slip zone and landslides. As there is not much room for both the railroad and the I-5 freeway we can still expect continuing issues, though with lesser frequency than Seattle to Everett.



#77 Phil S

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 10:36 PM

 

The Everett-Seattle route is simply no good.  It was basically built at the bottom of seaside cliffs... which is stupid.  It's going to be flooded by sea level rise eventually.   In the long run it needs to be replaced with an inland route.  Unfortunately the inland route which used to exist (the NP route) has been severed in multiple places.

 

The mudslides between Vancouver WA and Tacoma are another mater, and are a newer phenomeon.  That route's not bad.  It ought to be possible to permanently fix them.

 

There are still some geology issues. Between Vancouver WA and Kelso the bluffs are largely fairly recent (in geologic terms) uplift hills with the river cutting through. The hills are made up of random inclined layers of clay, alluvial rock, some ancient seabed, volcanic debris, and lava intrusion. The clay tends to be fairly impervious to water so when water gets to it there is an instant slip zone and landslides. As there is not much room for both the railroad and the I-5 freeway we can still expect continuing issues, though with lesser frequency than Seattle to Everett.

 

I thought most of the cliffs, especially between Everett and Seattle, were mostly glacial deposits. Poorly sorted and not well stratified - a random collection of "particles" from clay-size up to VW bug size.  Also, are the houses at the top of the cliffs (between Seattle and Everett) still on septic, with storm water from roofs and driveways also allowed to just percolate into the soil? If so, getting both of those water routes diverted could help immensely. 


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#78 Thirdrail7

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Posted 05 May 2017 - 11:02 PM

Amtrak Service Disruption between Seattle and Portland

 

 

Amtrak Service Disruption between Seattle and Portland
Train service suspended due to landslide

May 5, 2017


4:30 a.m. PT

Amtrak Cascades service between Seattle and Portland is suspended due to a landslide. BNSF Railway, which own the tracks, has placed a 48-hour moratorium, suspending all rail traffic in the area through Saturday, May 6. Amtrak is seeking alternate transportation. Normal rail operations continue north of Seattle and south of Portland to Eugene, Ore.


Amtrak regrets any inconvenience. This information is correct as of the above time and date. Information is subject to change as conditions warrant.

Passengers with travel plans can confirm their train's status, change their plans or review refund information using a range of tools – including Amtrak.com, smartphone apps or by calling 800-USA-RAIL. Service Alerts, Passenger Notices and other announcements are posted at Amtrak.com/alerts.


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