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#21 jis

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 07:57 AM

seatguru.com has pretty complete info on pitch, airline by airline, for each airline's aircraft type.

Right. But the point that DA is making is that just the seat pitch does not tell the whole story. For example, there are many airlines that place a huge box of electronics under the seat thus restricting ones leg room under the seat in front. That is usually not accounted for in Seatguru. Such things can make all the difference between a seat that is barely acceptable to one that is unusable specially for very tall people. So in essence all 32" pitch seats are not really the same.



#22 railiner

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 10:27 AM

And the seat's design can make a difference...the modern seats have very thin backrests to yield more knee room, as compared to the relatively plush seat backs from the early jetliner era. Even without equipment boxes hung below the seats, some seats afford more "shin room" than other's...
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#23 Long Train Runnin'

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 03:21 PM

Some of American's 737s don't even have seat-back entertainment in First Class.  Way out of date.

 

AA doesn't fly any 737-900s...there latest joke is refurbing some biz seats in their 757s and not electing to put in IFE. Just like the refurb 767-300s where they pass out tablets. The only thing I use the IFE for is the map, so the tablet doesn't make a good replacement in my eyes. 

 

United is getting new 900s delivered without Seat Back IFE or power outlets....and they are brand new birds...I flew one a few weeks ago down to San Juan, and I have another flight from EWR-AUS where I'll get to relive the experience. 

 

One of the funnier moments this year for me was in Indonesia I was trying to pick an airline for a quick hop from Jakarta to Surabaya (I took the train back). I came down to Lion Air and Air Asia X Indonesia.  I had never heard of Lion Air so I immediately wrote them thinking they would be flying some scrap heaps....then on the bus ride out to my Air Asia jet I see about 20 737-900ERs lined up for Lion Air while I got on a 10+ year old Airbus. Don't judge a book by its cover. 

 

 

Also to the OP weren't you crying a few months ago how stupid flying is?? Now were talking about fleet sub types...


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#24 jis

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 05:09 PM

At least the UA 739s have a map in their Wi-Fi home on the aircraft, though nothing as good as the on screen ones in say the 787s or GE 772-ERs or even the 752 RR Internationals. But still it is something. The 787 ones are particularly nice.

 

But then, none of them can hold a candle to the once on Luftahnsa A380s or 748i's.


Edited by jis, 25 October 2016 - 05:10 PM.


#25 tp49

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 05:25 PM

One of the funnier moments this year for me was in Indonesia I was trying to pick an airline for a quick hop from Jakarta to Surabaya (I took the train back). I came down to Lion Air and Air Asia X Indonesia.  I had never heard of Lion Air so I immediately wrote them thinking they would be flying some scrap heaps....then on the bus ride out to my Air Asia jet I see about 20 737-900ERs lined up for Lion Air while I got on a 10+ year old Airbus. Don't judge a book by its cover.


You were probably wise to write Lion Air off but for a different reason their safety record. I remember them crashing a two month old 737-800 a few years back and among the airlines of Asia they've had a higher number of crashes/incidents than I'd be comfortable with.

#26 Ryan

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 09:19 PM

But then, none of them can hold a candle to the once on Luftahnsa A380s or 748i's.


Like these guys? Passed through FRA last weekend, amazing planes everywhere.

Sadly, I got hauled off for extra special security screening before boarding and didn't get a chance to get more pictures.

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#27 Long Train Runnin'

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 02:58 PM

Yeah the 747-8i is really just a great look bird. I had the pleasure of taking a couple flights on it EWR-FRA and return. Hope to give it a try with Korean at some point as well. 

 

Although I think jis is talking specifically about the in flight maps across the various platforms. I still think the Airbus Tail Cam is a great way to watch a flight as well. I have been a couple 777-300s with outside cameras but have only seen the tail cam on an Airbus. 

 

 

One of the funnier moments this year for me was in Indonesia I was trying to pick an airline for a quick hop from Jakarta to Surabaya (I took the train back). I came down to Lion Air and Air Asia X Indonesia.  I had never heard of Lion Air so I immediately wrote them thinking they would be flying some scrap heaps....then on the bus ride out to my Air Asia jet I see about 20 737-900ERs lined up for Lion Air while I got on a 10+ year old Airbus. Don't judge a book by its cover.


You were probably wise to write Lion Air off but for a different reason their safety record. I remember them crashing a two month old 737-800 a few years back and among the airlines of Asia they've had a higher number of crashes/incidents than I'd be comfortable with.

 

 

And United has a had a couple 737-900s slide off the runway in the winter. The chances that you are on a flight that crashes are so low it's not even something that I really even consider. I was thinking purely from a comfort standard. 


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#28 B757Guy

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 12:00 PM

Yeah the 747-8i is really just a great look bird. I had the pleasure of taking a couple flights on it EWR-FRA and return. Hope to give it a try with Korean at some point as well. 

 

Although I think jis is talking specifically about the in flight maps across the various platforms. I still think the Airbus Tail Cam is a great way to watch a flight as well. I have been a couple 777-300s with outside cameras but have only seen the tail cam on an Airbus. 

 

 

One of the funnier moments this year for me was in Indonesia I was trying to pick an airline for a quick hop from Jakarta to Surabaya (I took the train back). I came down to Lion Air and Air Asia X Indonesia.  I had never heard of Lion Air so I immediately wrote them thinking they would be flying some scrap heaps....then on the bus ride out to my Air Asia jet I see about 20 737-900ERs lined up for Lion Air while I got on a 10+ year old Airbus. Don't judge a book by its cover.


You were probably wise to write Lion Air off but for a different reason their safety record. I remember them crashing a two month old 737-800 a few years back and among the airlines of Asia they've had a higher number of crashes/incidents than I'd be comfortable with.

 

 

And United has a had a couple 737-900s slide off the runway in the winter. The chances that you are on a flight that crashes are so low it's not even something that I really even consider. I was thinking purely from a comfort standard. 

 

United Flight 1977 that slide off the runway was mostly due to crew fatigue. An issue very near and dear to my heart.


I'm an airline pilot with a major US based carrier, and avid lover of trains since the very early days of Amtrak. I fondly recall GG1's zipping along the NEC, and sleeping in a slumbercoach on the Montrealer as a kid. I miss the old heritage cars, the GG1 and the original Budd Metroliners. The new equipment today simply doesn't have the same personality and elegance...


#29 jis

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 02:56 PM

Yeah the 747-8i is really just a great look bird. I had the pleasure of taking a couple flights on it EWR-FRA and return. Hope to give it a try with Korean at some point as well. 
 
Although I think jis is talking specifically about the in flight maps across the various platforms. I still think the Airbus Tail Cam is a great way to watch a flight as well. I have been a couple 777-300s with outside cameras but have only seen the tail cam on an Airbus.

Yes. I like the 380 tail cam a lot too.

The cameras are much more important on the 380 because specially from the upper deck, the windows are more or less useless to look downwards at all, at least in my experience. And typically that is where the people that paid more money are seated :)



#30 Long Train Runnin'

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 11:41 AM

 

Yeah the 747-8i is really just a great look bird. I had the pleasure of taking a couple flights on it EWR-FRA and return. Hope to give it a try with Korean at some point as well. 
 
Although I think jis is talking specifically about the in flight maps across the various platforms. I still think the Airbus Tail Cam is a great way to watch a flight as well. I have been a couple 777-300s with outside cameras but have only seen the tail cam on an Airbus.

Yes. I like the 380 tail cam a lot too.

The cameras are much more important on the 380 because specially from the upper deck, the windows are more or less useless to look downwards at all, at least in my experience. And typically that is where the people that paid more money are seated :)

 

 

Yeah I have only done 2 flights on the A380 one upstairs and one downstairs. Although I think a lot of Airlines have put the F cabin downstairs in the nose. I know its that way on KE, AF, QR and QF for sure. The upstairs windows make for a fun view while you taxi. 

 

Although I still think I prefer the feeling of being upstairs on the 747. Thankfully I have had a few segments up there recently. My father and I have both flown upstairs on the 747 at different times. I was glad when recently we were able to fly upstairs together on a CX 747. Especially since they have all now been put out to pasture. Although with the layout on CX its almost impossible to see out the window with the layout they have.

 

Also to stay on topic...what are peoples thoughts on the new sinks in most of the new Boeings? I noticed it for the first time a few years ago on my first 787 flight and see that is has spread to the 737-900s and the 747-8is. To me it seems a little bit of a germ collection point and also a tremendous waste of technology. Photo attached for reference. 

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Edited by Long Train Runnin', 28 October 2016 - 11:47 AM.

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#31 PVD

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 12:11 AM

There actually is a cockpit window change  a few years back. The "eyebrow" windows were eliminated, they no longer had a purpose.



#32 jis

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 07:15 AM

737s had the eybrow windows until the model 737-600 AFAIR. Starting from 737-700s those were gone.



#33 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 10:42 AM

seatguru.com has pretty complete info on pitch, airline by airline, for each airline's aircraft type.

Right. But the point that DA is making is that just the seat pitch does not tell the whole story.


Bingo.

pc5eyaGMi.png

 

And the seat's design can make a difference...the modern seats have very thin backrests to yield more knee room, as compared to the relatively plush seat backs from the early jetliner era. Even without equipment boxes hung below the seats, some seats afford more "shin room" than other's...


100% Correct.

pc5eyaGMi.png

 

737s had the eybrow windows until the model 737-600 AFAIR. Starting from 737-700s those were gone.


That matches up with my memory as well, although to be perfectly honest I rarely spend much time looking at 737's unless there is literally nothing else to spot. Do you have any experience with the A350 yet?

Edited by Devil's Advocate, 03 November 2016 - 08:20 PM.

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#34 railiner

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 10:17 PM

There actually is a cockpit window change  a few years back. The "eyebrow" windows were eliminated, they no longer had a purpose.


I wonder if trans-oceanic aircraft still carry sextants anymore, "just-in-case"...and if crews even are taught their use?

Even with all the modern electronic traffic alert systems, having those windows couldn't hurt to enable crew to have better visibility in congested airspace...
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#35 jis

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 04:15 AM

Clearly those that actually do the flying don't care much for those windows. ;)

#36 railiner

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 04:51 AM

I would like to hear some pilot's opinions on that....
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#37 jis

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 08:19 AM

I have talked to several, and all basically said that even though they are not allowed to use pocket GPS in navigation, they carry one just in case everything else fails. Much easier than trying to get a fix on stars while the plane is probably on the verge of getting out of control. Of course if the entire GPS constellation fails then we are all screwed.

#38 railiner

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 11:05 AM

Or intense solar flare activity that could interfere? Or is that just sci-fi? :)
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#39 saxman

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 07:49 PM

The windows serve no purpose. They just make the flight deck hot and too bright in that they just stuff old safety cards in there to block the sun. And I've never ever heard of pilots carrying a sextant around. If you lose navigation, you have bigger problems, plus I can't think of a scenario where that would even be possible.


Edited by saxman, 05 November 2016 - 07:50 PM.

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#40 Bob Dylan

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Posted 06 November 2016 - 12:15 AM

For those that don't know, saxman is an airline pilot so you can book this info! 😉
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