Are Dining Cars Open During Non-Meal Hours?

Are passengers allowed in the diner during non-meal hours? I am asking because once the Viewliner II diners come, it would be nicer to spend time in the diner rather than the lounge. The double windows could make the car great for sightseeing.

Generally, no.

You can pass thru them (example - from the sleeper to the lounge/café), but not to stay.

brianpmcdonnell17 said:

Are passengers allowed in the diner during non-meal hours? I am asking because once the Viewliner II diners come, it would be nicer to spend time in the diner rather than the lounge. The double windows could make the car great for sightseeing.

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Maybe by the time the Viewliner II diners come around, the policy will have changed.

That would be nice Thirdrail7, then perhaps my grandkids can enjoy it!

In my experience, the train crews like to make the diner into a "crew lounge" during in between meal times. And they generally do not like passenger's to hang around and overhear their conversation's....

The conductor also liked to spread out their paperwork, for their trip reports...

In the old days, the waiter's would be polishing the silverware between meals, or preparing the tables for the next service....

Hopefully we will eventually get Viewliner lounges. If the added a third row of windows on the edge of the roof and widened the currently existing ones, it would begin to look like a single level Superliner lounge. It would also help to have seat arrangements the same as on Superliners.

Surly union crews will run you out of them! Dining car for employee sittin' only! How dare you, a paying customer, attempt to infringe?!

No, not open for lingering. Only open for sleeper PAX to pass through to cafe car and back. Not open for coach PAX to pass through to sleepers.

Crews should not treat passengers in a surly manner. They should first politely ask people to leave areas not open. Paying a fare doesn't entitle one to be where they don't belong. At the same time, there is no denying that the single level lounges are inadequate for comfortable relaxation, and much as I love the split clubs as a BC passenger, on a busy corridor or medium distance route, they don't have enough room on the lounge side on a busy train.

On the Lake shore between NY and Albany (When the boston section is running) and on the Empire Builder between Spokane and Seattle, they reliably will allow you to sit there as it is serving as the lounge car too.

I have found that if you just ask the crew, they often will allow you to sit there. (Mind you, I generally only ask if the crew seems like one which will allow such, so my high degree of success here is likely a far from representative sample.)

If the single level trains had anything close to an SSL this would be a total non issue. I'll be on the Crescent in a few weeks, it would be nice to get out of the roomette, and not have to sit straight up at a table in a noisy and crowded snack car.

It's not a union rule (why is this always assumed?). Sometimes an employee's comments are interpreted as surly because they are not what the passenger wanted to hear. They were not necessarily intended that way, and an objective observer might agree that the original comment was actually pretty benign.

Between service periods, the diner crew may be busy preparing for the next service. This often means cleaning, setting the tables, etc. Once the tables are set, it is impossible to guarantee sanitation of the place settings if those "set" tables are used for casual lounging. Once they have done whatever preparation they can, they may return to the crew car or just sit down in the diner or lounge car to take a break before the next service. Typically, they rise about 5 am to open the diner at 6. Then they serve breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and often don't get to bed till about 11 pm. Then they do it again the next day. During their time on duty, they are mostly on their feet while you are sitting down. They will understandably take every opportunity to get off their feet when they can. You can't expect them to do their job safely and effectively without reasonable breaks, and they can't properly monitor their car for safety and sanitation during those breaks.

It is OK to walk through the diner during closed hours because that's the only way to get from one place to another. But since the crew can't monitor the car fully during that time, it's not OK to linger there. That's what the lounge is for. Whether the lounge car is comfortable enough, is an entirely separate question.

No hard feelings?

Tom

I think it's a reasonable policy. Maybe it wouldn't hurt if you sat there quietly by yourself, but if everyone was afforded that opportunity, it would undoubtedly hamper the ability of dining car employees to provide a clean dining car and yes, have some deserved down time.

tommylicious said:

Surly union crews will run you out of them! Dining car for employee sittin' only! How dare you, a paying customer, attempt to infringe?!

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Would you expect to be able to go walk to and sit in McDonalds when they're closed?

People seem to overlook the fact that some of these crews are on the train for up to six days at a time more or less. Are you saying they should either be working, or confined to their closet size room for those six days? Amtrak employees are not suppose to be seen by passengers partially out of uniform (for example, tie off), or with their cell phones out, listening to music through earbuds, etc, even when off duty if they are on Amtrak property. Give them this one place...

FormerOBS said:

It's not a union rule (why is this always assumed?). Sometimes an employee's comments are interpreted as surly because they are not what the passenger wanted to hear. They were not necessarily intended that way, and an objective observer might agree that the original comment was actually pretty benign.

Between service periods, the diner crew may be busy preparing for the next service. This often means cleaning, setting the tables, etc. Once the tables are set, it is impossible to guarantee sanitation of the place settings if those "set" tables are used for casual lounging. Once they have done whatever preparation they can, they may return to the crew car or just sit down in the diner or lounge car to take a break before the next service. Typically, they rise about 5 am to open the diner at 6. Then they serve breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and often don't get to bed till about 11 pm. Then they do it again the next day. During their time on duty, they are mostly on their feet while you are sitting down. They will understandably take every opportunity to get off their feet when they can. You can't expect them to do their job safely and effectively without reasonable breaks, and they can't properly monitor their car for safety and sanitation during those breaks.

It is OK to walk through the diner during closed hours because that's the only way to get from one place to another. But since the crew can't monitor the car fully during that time, it's not OK to linger there. That's what the lounge is for. Whether the lounge car is comfortable enough, is an entirely separate question.

No hard feelings?

Tom

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Thank you for responding in an unsurly (former) union member, Tom. Always a gentlemen.

I must agree though. Basically any time we say no we are seen as the bad guy. The other week I had someone come in to the Cafe at South Station who was looking for a place to sit, and it was one of the dinette cars, so we have no overhead luggage racks. I told her that the luggage can't go on the seat due to safety concerns, and I told her that there's really nowhere for the luggage in this ca- "WELL WHERE CAN I PUT IT?!". Uh...There's no where in this car, bu- "JUST TELL ME WHERE I CAN PUT IT!". There's plenty of luggage storage in the other coaches. "Where?!" Over all the seats and at one end of all of the other cars. "WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST TELL ME THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE?!"

I was flabbergasted. I had to ask another passenger in the car if I did something wrong, and they were beyond belief of how she acted and treated me. No offense tommylicious but some passengers seem to think they can do anything they want because they paid a fare. Last Sunday I had a passenger in the Cafe car who sat at one table and put her bags on the table, and the seat on the other side of the table. Then after like two minutes, she moved to the table across the aisle, while leaving all of her stuff where it was originally. So she was taking up one whole table for her luggage, and then one half of another table because of how she was sitting with her laptop and papers spread out. That's six seats being taken up by one person. Luckily she was just clueless and had no idea she was doing something wrong, but there are people who still get upset when we tell them to move their stuff because we need the seats.

And for those wondering, yes, we did have overhead storage in that Cafe car.

FormerOBS said:

Between service periods, the diner crew may be busy preparing for the next service. This often means cleaning, setting the tables, etc. Once the tables are set, it is impossible to guarantee sanitation of the place settings if those "set" tables are used for casual lounging.

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I have to say, that in all my years on single level LD trains (ie, ones that might someday get a Viewliner I/II Dining Car), have I never seen the dining car set for tomorrow's breakfast, after diner service was over. I mean, tables set will silverware, plates, glasses, napkins, and alike. Never.

If it was, I would agree, but that's not the case. Other than being "reserved" for exclusive usage by crew members, I really don't see why sleeper class people could not use the tables to spend their evening playing a card or board game?

Triley said:

tommylicious said:

Surly union crews will run you out of them! Dining car for employee sittin' only! How dare you, a paying customer, attempt to infringe?!

Click to expand...

Would you expect to be able to go walk to and sit in McDonalds when they're closed?

People seem to overlook the fact that some of these crews are on the train for up to six days at a time more or less. Are you saying they should either be working, or confined to their closet size room for those six days? Amtrak employees are not suppose to be seen by passengers partially out of uniform (for example, tie off), or with their cell phones out, listening to music through earbuds, etc, even when off duty if they are on Amtrak property. Give them this one place...

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If the seating area is open and not barricaded in any way (perhaps a mall food court or something) then yes, i might well expect to be able to sit there even while the restaurant isn't serving. .

Which is perhaps applicable to the analogy, since the dining car is necessarily open and accessible for passengers to pass through. I don't disagree that crew members need a place to relax and unwind, I'm just not sure it should be the dining car (in my opinion, all overnight trains should have dormitory cars - most soon will - with rooms sold to the public partitioned off).

FormerOBS said:

Sometimes an employee's comments are interpreted as surly because they are not what the passenger wanted to hear. They were not necessarily intended that way, and an objective observer might agree that the original comment was actually pretty benign.

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This x 1000. I am one of the nicest people, and I will do everything in my power to fix a situation and/or give someone what they need, but I've had customers call me "rude" simply because I wouldn't/couldn't give them what they wanted. It doesn't matter how pleasantly and patiently I couch it; I'm the spawn of Satan himself because I wouldn't/couldn't give into their request.

There are two sides to every story, sometimes three, especially when working with the public.

I was in coach once when the dining car ran out of reservation slots. It was a sold out train during the holidays. Some lady threw a FIT because she couldn't get a dinner reservation for her and her kids. The LSA kindly and calmly explained that the sleepers are reserved first and then they come through the coaches, handing out whatever reservations are left. She sounded truly sympathetic and was so patient with this passenger. Unfortunately, the lady continued screaming at the LSA, at which point the conductor showed up.

Finally, with some no-nonsense words from the conductor, the lady calmed down, but then she called Amtrak and said the LSA was really rude to her and wouldn't LET her make a reservation. I wanted to grab the phone and tell the customer service rep that that was not what had happened at all. I felt so bad for that LSA.

The first morning of our first long distance trip on the CZ in 2009, we had a late breakfast. As we were finishing up, the staff was setting up for lunch. Our server came over to our table and told us not to rush and that we were free to sit there for as long as we wanted even though we were through eating. (I noticed that traveling with an adorable and polite 7 year old redhead opened the door for many little kindnesses like that).

Cho Cho Charlie said:

FormerOBS said:

Between service periods, the diner crew may be busy preparing for the next service. This often means cleaning, setting the tables, etc. Once the tables are set, it is impossible to guarantee sanitation of the place settings if those "set" tables are used for casual lounging.

Click to expand...

I have to say, that in all my years on single level LD trains (ie, ones that might someday get a Viewliner I/II Dining Car), have I never seen the dining car set for tomorrow's breakfast, after diner service was over. I mean, tables set will silverware, plates, glasses, napkins, and alike. Never.

If it was, I would agree, but that's not the case. Other than being "reserved" for exclusive usage by crew members, I really don't see why sleeper class people could not use the tables to spend their evening playing a card or board game?

Click to expand...

S.O.P. on the Auto Train through all my years there was to put a basic setup on the tables at night so that the car was as nearly ready as possible for the beginning of breakfast. For many years, the tables were left uncovered, but in more recent times the standards have been tightened so that the set tables are covered. In the early morning, before breakfast, the crew finishes by getting the refrigerated or warm items ready and uncovering the tables, filling cream pitchers, etc. If passengers have raided the diner's coffee station supplies (in preference to using the all-night coffee station in the lounge car next door), it tends to interfere with the crew's orderly preparations for service.

Things are done differently on other trains. The Auto Train has to have a system like this because it often carries well over 500 passengers, and there is a commitment to serve dinner and breakfast to 100% of them. The diner opens at 6 am, and by 6:15 am, the diners are often full to capacity, with the need to get those folks fed and make way for the next ones. Arrival is often before 8 am, despite what the timetable says, and most passengers want to get off the train and be on their way. If the crew is disorganized, or if their preparations are interfered with, it's hard to fulfill the commitment to serve everybody.

Even if the practice on other trains may not be the same, the fact remains that the dining room is a bad place to conduct activities that could potentially compromise the integrity of the diner's sanitation during the night or between seatings. If I'm going to eat at a table anywhere (train, restaurant, home, or what have you), I don't want people having their kids walk on the table or sit on the table with soiled diapers. Think it doesn't happen? Think again. If the crew isn't there to stop it, it's going to happen.

Tom

Trainmans daughter said:

The first morning of our first long distance trip on the CZ in 2009, we had a late breakfast. As we were finishing up, the staff was setting up for lunch. Our server came over to our table and told us not to rush and that we were free to sit there for as long as we wanted even though we were through eating. (I noticed that traveling with an adorable and polite 7 year old redhead opened the door for many little kindnesses like that).

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Absolutely right. Most OBS employees will be happy to work with you for special situations, or when you aren't interfering with their ability t do their job. Just like you, they want to have a pleasant day. They didn't wake up this morning saying "WHO CAN I OFFEND TODAY?"

Tom

FormerOBS said:

They didn't wake up this morning saying "WHO CAN I OFFEND TODAY?"

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Must....not...make....comment...about...election

I strongly suspect pax were not allowed to hang out in pre-Amtrak Diners after hours; so this should not be a new concern. Of course pre-Amtrak Lounge Cars were much nicer and the upright pull out Diner chairs would be less enticing for lounging.

I think if no crew are in the dining car, such as late at night, and the tables don't have tablecloths on them yet, I think it's fair game to sit at a table.

That's what I did when traveling on the CL this past June because the SSL doesn't have very good tables for spreading out paperwork.