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CHI-MKE electrification


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Poll: Electrify CHI-MKE

How should the Chicago-Milwaukee corridor be used reguardless of cost

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#41 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 09:28 AM

I'm wondering if one cost is for ventilation with the current layout and the higher costs are with new buildings overhead? The canopies are in bad, no, terrible, shape as is the ceiling of the northern portion which is under the building so some repair might be required to install anything to the ceiling, such as ducts and fans. I gather that Metra is either replacing locomotives or the emissions controls in some as part of the ventilation issue.


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#42 norfolkwesternhenry

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 05:47 PM

It seems to me, at least, that if Union is going to be rebuilt it should be rebuilt as a through station rather than a stub terminal which would enable an S-bahn style commuter network and shorter dwell times too. Ahhh, dreaming is fun! And I'd like a panda while we're at it.

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Empire Builder MSP-CHI (2) CHI-MSP (2) MSP-PDX (1) MSP-CBS (5.5 H late) (1) MKE-MSP (1) MSP-SEA (1) Coast Starlate PDX-EMY (1.5H late) (1) California Zephyr DEN-SLC (1H late) (1) Hiawatha CHI-MKE (1) NE Regional WAS-BAL (1) WAS-NYP (1) Acela Express BAL-WAS (1) BOS-WAS (1) Late Shore (Limited service) CHI-BOS (On Time) (1) Capitol Limited WAS-CHI (1) Texas Eagle SAS-CHI (1.5 HR late, 1 HR late) (2) CHI-SAS (1) (55 min early) Wolverine DET-DER-ARB-CHI (35 Min late) (1) Cascades SEA-VAC (1)
Non-Amtrak: VIA: Corridor Service Q.C.-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor (1) Canadian: VAC-Winnipeg 4.5 H late (1) D. C. metro, Montreal Metro, Toronto subway, Portland streetcars, BART, Metra, NYC subway, Boston subway, Twin cities Blue/Green line
train cars travelled in: Superliner: Coach, Sleeper, Diner, CCC, SSL. Amfleet: LD Café, Café/Business, coach. Viewliner: Sleeper, Diner. Acela: Café, Business, quiet car. Horizon: Coach. Talgo: coach, diner, café; non Amtrak: ex CP Via Canadian Manor cars, Park car, diner,sleeper, Skyline lounge. LRC trainset: coach (tilt de-activated)

No trees were killed to make this, but a number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

My apologies if I offend you, or seem stubborn, it's simply my nature. I am 14 after all, and my English isn't exactly perfect.


#43 MisterUptempo

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 12:25 AM

I'm wondering if one cost is for ventilation with the current layout and the higher costs are with new buildings overhead? The canopies are in bad, no, terrible, shape as is the ceiling of the northern portion which is under the building so some repair might be required to install anything to the ceiling, such as ducts and fans. I gather that Metra is either replacing locomotives or the emissions controls in some as part of the ventilation issue.

 

I took a few minutes to look at the Union Station Master Plan, in hopes of getting some insight into the ventilation question.

 

As you know, Amtrak plans on remodeling the current concourse, including the Canal Street entrance. Plans for the entrance call for moving stairs and escalators to improve traffic flow on the concourse floor. The rendering from the December, 2013 edition of the Master Plan showed this-

 

aevr0c4.jpg

 

zvbYE3k.jpg

 

In the illustration below, you can see the location of the diesel exhaust plenum. It would be right behind the wall that the departures/arrivals board is hanging on in the first rendering above. Despite the optimistic amount of light that the second rendering shows, that plenum really gets in the way of allowing light down onto the concourse.

 

tOS8Dbk.jpg

 

Now, look at the most recent renderings for the Canal Street entrance -

 

0JwybRe.jpg

 

jpwtcgk.jpg

 

The new design seems to provide for not only improved traffic flow, but also a marked improvement in the amount of light allowed into the concourse, achieved from the use of what appears to be highly reflective materials and the much more open, flowing transition from the Canal entrance to the concourse below. I can't see how they can achieve anything like that with the exhaust plenum as it currently exists.

 

A sizable chunk of the money they seek must be going towards redesigning the plenum.

 

Regarding repairing the ceiling of the train shed, I was of the understanding that maintenance/repair of the ceiling is the responsibility of the owners of the buildings over the tracks. The City of Chicago has the responsibility of maintaining the portion of the train shed that sits under Canal Street. If that's correct, Amtrak's only responsibility would be the portion of the south tracks not covered by 300 S. Riverside or the Old Post Office.


Edited by MisterUptempo, 07 June 2017 - 12:36 AM.


#44 norfolkwesternhenry

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 10:58 PM

How bad is the fume problem in CUS? I can imagine having so many LD trains idling for so long, as well as all the commuter routes, and even the SD routes that sit for hours before going anywhere. Is it bad enough where electrification would solve many problems, or few? Also, if oil prices spike for long periods, electric trains could save money...

Empire Builder MSP-CHI (2) CHI-MSP (2) MSP-PDX (1) MSP-CBS (5.5 H late) (1) MKE-MSP (1) MSP-SEA (1) Coast Starlate PDX-EMY (1.5H late) (1) California Zephyr DEN-SLC (1H late) (1) Hiawatha CHI-MKE (1) NE Regional WAS-BAL (1) WAS-NYP (1) Acela Express BAL-WAS (1) BOS-WAS (1) Late Shore (Limited service) CHI-BOS (On Time) (1) Capitol Limited WAS-CHI (1) Texas Eagle SAS-CHI (1.5 HR late, 1 HR late) (2) CHI-SAS (1) (55 min early) Wolverine DET-DER-ARB-CHI (35 Min late) (1) Cascades SEA-VAC (1)
Non-Amtrak: VIA: Corridor Service Q.C.-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor (1) Canadian: VAC-Winnipeg 4.5 H late (1) D. C. metro, Montreal Metro, Toronto subway, Portland streetcars, BART, Metra, NYC subway, Boston subway, Twin cities Blue/Green line
train cars travelled in: Superliner: Coach, Sleeper, Diner, CCC, SSL. Amfleet: LD Café, Café/Business, coach. Viewliner: Sleeper, Diner. Acela: Café, Business, quiet car. Horizon: Coach. Talgo: coach, diner, café; non Amtrak: ex CP Via Canadian Manor cars, Park car, diner,sleeper, Skyline lounge. LRC trainset: coach (tilt de-activated)

No trees were killed to make this, but a number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

My apologies if I offend you, or seem stubborn, it's simply my nature. I am 14 after all, and my English isn't exactly perfect.


#45 west point

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 03:54 AM

Maybe fumes could be reduced by hooking all trains to station HEP until 5 minutes before departure ? Cost analysis needed for ongoing labor verses fixed capital costs.

#46 norfolkwesternhenry

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Posted 13 June 2017 - 02:14 PM

How long does it take to start up a P42, SC-44, F40PH (and all Metra variations), and the other Metra engines from cold?

Edited by norfolkwesternhenry, 13 June 2017 - 02:15 PM.

Empire Builder MSP-CHI (2) CHI-MSP (2) MSP-PDX (1) MSP-CBS (5.5 H late) (1) MKE-MSP (1) MSP-SEA (1) Coast Starlate PDX-EMY (1.5H late) (1) California Zephyr DEN-SLC (1H late) (1) Hiawatha CHI-MKE (1) NE Regional WAS-BAL (1) WAS-NYP (1) Acela Express BAL-WAS (1) BOS-WAS (1) Late Shore (Limited service) CHI-BOS (On Time) (1) Capitol Limited WAS-CHI (1) Texas Eagle SAS-CHI (1.5 HR late, 1 HR late) (2) CHI-SAS (1) (55 min early) Wolverine DET-DER-ARB-CHI (35 Min late) (1) Cascades SEA-VAC (1)
Non-Amtrak: VIA: Corridor Service Q.C.-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor (1) Canadian: VAC-Winnipeg 4.5 H late (1) D. C. metro, Montreal Metro, Toronto subway, Portland streetcars, BART, Metra, NYC subway, Boston subway, Twin cities Blue/Green line
train cars travelled in: Superliner: Coach, Sleeper, Diner, CCC, SSL. Amfleet: LD Café, Café/Business, coach. Viewliner: Sleeper, Diner. Acela: Café, Business, quiet car. Horizon: Coach. Talgo: coach, diner, café; non Amtrak: ex CP Via Canadian Manor cars, Park car, diner,sleeper, Skyline lounge. LRC trainset: coach (tilt de-activated)

No trees were killed to make this, but a number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

My apologies if I offend you, or seem stubborn, it's simply my nature. I am 14 after all, and my English isn't exactly perfect.


#47 ehbowen

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 02:39 PM

How long does it take to start up a P42, SC-44, F40PH (and all Metra variations), and the other Metra engines from cold?


If the engines are cold...especially Chicago cold...they very well may not start at all. Sure you want to go there in a busy terminal?

There's a reason that many railroads and heavy equipment operators in the cold country run their Diesel engines 24/7, except for maintenance.

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#48 west point

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 06:33 PM

If the engines are cold...especially Chicago cold...they very well may not start at all. Sure you want to go there in a busy terminal?

There's a reason that many railroads and heavy equipment operators in the cold country run their Diesel engines 24/7, except for maintenance.


Even some outfits put some kind of heater in the fuel tank.

Edited by west point, 14 June 2017 - 06:34 PM.


#49 brianpmcdonnell17

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 06:55 PM

If starting engines in Chicago is an issue due to cold, there are many other Amtrak terminals that are even more vulnerable. Milwaukee, Grand Rapids, Port Huron, Pontiac, Toronto, Niagara Falls, Rensselaer (NY), Montreal, Rutland, St. Albans, Springfield (MA), Portland (ME), and Brunswick are all colder. Most of these are smaller cities with few or no extra Amtrak locomotives stored, so is it ever an issue of the locomotive not being able to start whatsoever?
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#50 jis

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Posted 14 June 2017 - 11:56 PM

It is not an issue because locomotives are not shutdown perhaps? I know they are not shut down at St. Albans for sure.

#51 norfolkwesternhenry

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 07:28 PM

How long does it take to start up a P42, SC-44, F40PH (and all Metra variations), and the other Metra engines from cold?

If the engines are cold...especially Chicago cold...they very well may not start at all. Sure you want to go there in a busy terminal?

There's a reason that many railroads and heavy equipment operators in the cold country run their Diesel engines 24/7, except for maintenance.
I've seen ads in TRAINS magazine for block heaters so you can shut down the prime mover when it's cold.

Empire Builder MSP-CHI (2) CHI-MSP (2) MSP-PDX (1) MSP-CBS (5.5 H late) (1) MKE-MSP (1) MSP-SEA (1) Coast Starlate PDX-EMY (1.5H late) (1) California Zephyr DEN-SLC (1H late) (1) Hiawatha CHI-MKE (1) NE Regional WAS-BAL (1) WAS-NYP (1) Acela Express BAL-WAS (1) BOS-WAS (1) Late Shore (Limited service) CHI-BOS (On Time) (1) Capitol Limited WAS-CHI (1) Texas Eagle SAS-CHI (1.5 HR late, 1 HR late) (2) CHI-SAS (1) (55 min early) Wolverine DET-DER-ARB-CHI (35 Min late) (1) Cascades SEA-VAC (1)
Non-Amtrak: VIA: Corridor Service Q.C.-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor (1) Canadian: VAC-Winnipeg 4.5 H late (1) D. C. metro, Montreal Metro, Toronto subway, Portland streetcars, BART, Metra, NYC subway, Boston subway, Twin cities Blue/Green line
train cars travelled in: Superliner: Coach, Sleeper, Diner, CCC, SSL. Amfleet: LD Café, Café/Business, coach. Viewliner: Sleeper, Diner. Acela: Café, Business, quiet car. Horizon: Coach. Talgo: coach, diner, café; non Amtrak: ex CP Via Canadian Manor cars, Park car, diner,sleeper, Skyline lounge. LRC trainset: coach (tilt de-activated)

No trees were killed to make this, but a number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

My apologies if I offend you, or seem stubborn, it's simply my nature. I am 14 after all, and my English isn't exactly perfect.





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