Why do Amtrak trains have to give way to freights?

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ToniCounter

Service Attendant
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
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I can't count the number of times that I hear the conductor announce something

like "folks, we'll start moving again shortly, once the CSX freight train gets past

us..." (which usually added 25 to an hour of delay... or worse)

I realize the tracks are owned by CSC or whichever freight train company, but

why do Amtrak trains always seem to give way to freight trains?

Yes, you guessed it... I'm writing this email from my seat. The train has been

sitting still for almost 40 minutes in the middle of nowhere. At least the stupid

half-mile long freight trains is now passing us on the adjacent tracks. Where

can they be going in such a rush? The cars seem to be carrying mostly

fresh logs, rocks, and tankers filled with unknown chemicals. :(

(sorry for ranting)
 
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I can't count the number of times that I hear the conductor announce something

like "folks, we'll start moving again shortly, once the CSX freight train gets past

us..." (which usually added 25 to an hour of delay... or worse)

I realize the tracks are owned by CSC or whichever freight train company, but

why do Amtrak trains always seem to give way to freight trains?
They don't have a choice to 'give way.' Most of the track Amtrak uses is owned by other freight railroads, meaning the Amtrak trains are controlled by those railroads. Amtrak pays money to the railroads to let them use the track.

The freight railroads would rather move their trains, which make them money, than move Amtrak, who just pays them a flat fee for track usage.
 
They don't have a choice to 'give way.' Most of the track Amtrak uses is owned by other freight railroads, meaning the Amtrak trains are controlled by those railroads. Amtrak pays money to the railroads to let them use the track.

The freight railroads would rather move their trains, which make them money, than move Amtrak, who just pays them a flat fee for track usage.
I have a dream... that one day American will have a vast network of ultra-high-speed trains going coast to coast.... New York to Miami in 8 hours, Chicago to Los Angeles in 15 hours.....

I think I had one too many beers with dinner on the train tonight. We'll probably build base on Mars first?
 
This is how railroading works. You are basically asking "why do I have to stop at a red light and let the other cars pass."

The trains generally don't pass you (moving in the same direction." You are "meeting" the trains that are running in opposite directions.
 
There is a law suit in process where in Amtrak is suing freight railroads for not giving Amtrak trains priority.
The freight railroads petitioned the federal government to allow the freight railroads to stop passenger rail service.
The government agreed to that, but part of the deal was the railroads would give the new government/private National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) passenger trains priority.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak#Pre-Amtrak

As it is, Amtrak was expected to fail in short order.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak#Formation

The Nixon administration and many Washington insiders viewed the NRPC as a politically expedient way for the President and Congress to give passenger trains a "last hurrah" as demanded by the public. They expected Amtrak to quietly disappear as public interest waned.
But outside the northeast corridor where Amtrak does own the rails the freight railroads today don't live up to what they had agreed to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak#Operations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak#Public_funding
 
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There are single track areas where the sidings are not long enough for the freight trains, so they will put the shorter Amtrak train on the siding and let the longer freight train pass.
 
The alleged agreement and law is that Amtrak has the highest priority. They tend to move faster and theoretically shouldn't delay freight traffic by much. There were penalties at one time for failure to give priority, but eventually that went away by court order.

The reality is that most dispatch is performed by the freight railroads, and it can be difficult to delay a freight train because of things such as the length of sidings. For the most part, performance has improved with track improvements. While they may not be the best friend of Amtrak, I have the feeling that to some degree they're trying.
 
At least the stupid half-mile long freight trains . . .
Only a half of a mile long? Pffft! A good many today are more than a mile long. Union Pacific ran a 3+ mile long train as a test about 6 years ago in Southern California - probably had every do-gooder Congress critter predicting the end of Western civilzation! :)
 
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Governance of traffic movement on a railroad has to be controlled by SOMEONE.

That someone is the Dispatcher.

In a perfect world, the Dispatcher keeps all trains moving, without interfering with one another, until all trains arrive at their destinations on time.

This is not a perfect world.

When the host railroad's Dispatcher fails to keep everything moving in perfect harmony, we sometimes wish we could overrule some decision that Dispatcher has made.

The reality is that we rarely, if ever, know all the things that affect the Dispatcher's decisions.

Even if the Dispatcher's decisions are imperfect, the notion that some outsider should be able to overrule those decisions is wrongheaded and potentially dangerous.

That being said, it is understood that the Dispatcher (representing his employer) is expected to make a good faith effort to serve Amtrak and its customers in a fair way.

If there is clear evidence that a good faith effort has not been made, then there should be consequences.

Unfortunately, it's very hard to prove.

Tom
 
It's not even always the dispatcher's fault. Just today in Atlanta, I heard a dispatcher desperately trying to reach a train that was stopped at a pretty busy control point, on a pretty busy mainline for what the dispatcher said was "no known reason." If your Amtrak train is behind a stopped freight, there's not a whole lot even the dispatcher can do in many cases.
 
Also, Amtrak doesn't "always" yield to freights. I've been on plenty of trips during which we had the right of way and the freight was sitting on the siding.
 
I have had no trips on Amtrak in the past several years where late arrivals to my destination were due to freight train interference from dispatcher inaction.
 
I have had no trips on Amtrak in the past several years where late arrivals to my destination were due to freight train interference from dispatcher inaction.
I've experienced it a few times. I don't know if it was dispatcher interference, but it certainly felt like freight trains were being given priority when you're stuck on a siding for 15 minutes and were already late.
 
I have had no trips on Amtrak in the past several years where late arrivals to my destination were due to freight train interference from dispatcher inaction.

I have had no trips on Amtrak in the past several years where late arrivals to my destination were due to freight train interference from dispatcher inaction.
I've experienced it a few times. I don't know if it was dispatcher interference, but it certainly felt like freight trains were being given priority when you're stuck on a siding for 15 minutes and were already late.

Happens almost every trip I have to come down to Virginia on CSX. Going out to Lynchburg on NS is usually spot on.
 
In one mainline track territory, even if the Dispatcher planned for Amtrak to pass through without delays, a freight pulling into a siding late is uncontrollable, just like mentioned previously, the stopped or stalled freight. Also, once Amtrak is delayed, the previously planned slot is gone, so now the Dispatcher plan is out of sync.
 
They don't have a choice to 'give way.' Most of the track Amtrak uses is owned by other freight railroads, meaning the Amtrak trains are controlled by those railroads. Amtrak pays money to the railroads to let them use the track.

The freight railroads would rather move their trains, which make them money, than move Amtrak, who just pays them a flat fee for track usage.
I have a dream... that one day American will have a vast network of ultra-high-speed trains going

coast to coast.... New York to Miami in 8 hours, Chicago to Los Angeles in 15 hours.....

I think I had one too many beers with dinner on the train tonight. We'll probably build base on Mars first?
Where did you end up parking your car?
 
They don't have a choice to 'give way.' Most of the track Amtrak uses is owned by other freight railroads, meaning the Amtrak trains are controlled by those railroads. Amtrak pays money to the railroads to let them use the track.

The freight railroads would rather move their trains, which make them money, than move Amtrak, who just pays them a flat fee for track usage.
I have a dream... that one day American will have a vast network of ultra-high-speed trains going

coast to coast.... New York to Miami in 8 hours, Chicago to Los Angeles in 15 hours.....

I think I had one too many beers with dinner on the train tonight. We'll probably build base on Mars first?
Where did you end up parking your car?
who, me? :) safely at home. someone "volunteered" a ride to the station.
 
In one mainline track territory, even if the Dispatcher planned for Amtrak to pass through without delays, a freight pulling into a siding late is uncontrollable, just like mentioned previously, the stopped or stalled freight. Also, once Amtrak is delayed, the previously planned slot is gone, so now the Dispatcher plan is out of sync.
Not to mention, an errant Amtrak passenger delaying the train at a station could cause a freight that was originally going to run behind Amtrak to get ahead of it and cause havoc down the line. There is only so much time that other traffic will be held for an Amtrak train trying to resolve some passenger issues with an unknown projection of possible resolution time.

In general of late at least I have found in my travels that an Amtrak train that gets into a freight territory in slot generally does quite well. One of my pet peeves regarding the westbound LSL is that each time I have traveled on it Amtrak has managed to hand it over to CSX at Hoffmans already 40 mins down due to dilly-dallying at Albany. And of course CSX which already has a bit of a problem keeping trains handed to them in slot on time, then proceeds to do its thing on it since it has by then released some freight or the other that was supposed to be behind the LSL, ahead of it.
 
I have had no trips on Amtrak in the past several years where late arrivals to my destination were due to freight train interference from dispatcher inaction.
How about Dispatcher Malaction?

On board the westbound Zephyr this year, we pulled up alongside a stopped freight traveling the same direction near Donner Pass. Shortly after we stopped, the freight proceeded... and then after about 20-30 minutes, we followed, which mean that we went the whole way down the hill, and in fact all the way to Roseville, at slower "Mountain Descending Freight Train" speed, due to the Mountain Descending Freight Train in front of us.
 
there are so many complex issues when dispatching trains. Perhaps the dispatcher had already lined up the freight further along the line to switch over to another railroad, perhaps the freight would miss its window to get where it needs to go if it were delayed longer.
 
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