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Best CHI-NYP route


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#21 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 18 July 2016 - 04:26 PM

 

At one time there was a plan for an "air line" directly from Chicago to NYC along pretty much as straight of a line as possible - this was to be an electric (yes, third rail) road. Very little was built outside of the Chesterton, Indiana area, from what I understand. The schematic route was what appears to be halfway between the 20th Century and Broadway routes (I think roughly along, what is it, I-80?).

This ?

https://en.wikipedia...r_Line_Railroad

 

I guess the OP is thinking of something like it....

 

Yup, the very same!

 

Well you may have a point there.....

they used to say "Mussolini made the trains run on-time" :P

Wasn't that, er, not quite true? (as an aside, when my father escaped from Eastern Europe during the early part of the war, yeah WWII, he was very impressed with Italian trains - "it was like stepping into the future, they were all electric")


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#22 railgeekteen

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 01:50 PM

Via New York's southern teir looks like the shortest route.



#23 Lonestar648

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 05:13 PM

I think keeping the LSL, but add the Broadway Limited that could also be the second Pittsburgh/NYP train the state has tossed around.  Then you still have the Capitol Limited to WAS with NEC connections.  Have the CL still be connection with the Pennsylvanian making all the stops across PA, allowing the BL to just stop at the major stops (Limited Stops), fast track it to NYP.  WAS passengers that didn't take the CL could do the NEC to WAS at PHL.



#24 jis

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 05:17 PM

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.

 

Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D


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#25 Lonestar648

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 06:38 PM

I think if you had limited stops, a decent depart and arrival both ways, decent amenities in the Sleepers, there are a number of travelers fed up with air travel and would consider the train.  When I was working that is what happened for us going from CHI to WAS.  NO SECURITY hassle, leave in the evening, be showered and fresh in the morning preparing for our WAS meetings arriving about lunch.  For a while there was a group from my company plus several other regular business travelers almost weekly.  



#26 cpotisch

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 07:05 PM

I wouldn't call the LSL route particularly indirect. Sure, it goes a bit north, but at less than 20 hours, it's still pretty quick (by Amtrak LD standards).


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#27 railgeekteen

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 07:47 PM

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.

 

Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D

Via Reading and Allentown to bypass Philly?



#28 jis

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:22 PM

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.
 
Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D

Via Reading and Allentown to bypass Philly?
No. Just use the link called the New York or Pittsburgh Subway at Zoo, like the real PRR Broadway did. Much faster than futzing around Reading and Allentown.


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#29 railgeekteen

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:53 PM

 

 

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.
 
Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D

Via Reading and Allentown to bypass Philly?
No. Just use the link called the New York or Pittsburgh Subway at Zoo, like the real PRR Broadway did. Much faster than futzing around Reading and Allentown.


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Would it stop at North Philly? 



#30 railiner

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 12:11 AM

 

 

 

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.
 
Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D

Via Reading and Allentown to bypass Philly?
No. Just use the link called the New York or Pittsburgh Subway at Zoo, like the real PRR Broadway did. Much faster than futzing around Reading and Allentown.


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Would it stop at North Philly? 

 

That's what the PRR did...the only New York-Chicago train serving 30th Street Station was the Pennsylvania Limited, which went backwards between New York and Philly....


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#31 bms

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 12:58 AM

 

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.

 

Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D

Via Reading and Allentown to bypass Philly?

 

 

Restoring passenger rail service to Pennsylvania's third and fifth-largest cities would be glorious.  Philadelphia passengers could transfer to the Keystone Service in Harrisburg.



#32 railiner

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 07:33 AM

 

 

Yeah BL could just do Johnstown, Altoona, Harrisburg, Philly, Newark, New York.

 

Or just to irritate Philly Railfan it could skip Philadelphia using the New York Subway with the engine change at Harrisburg :D

Via Reading and Allentown to bypass Philly?

 

 

Restoring passenger rail service to Pennsylvania's third and fifth-largest cities would be glorious.  Philadelphia passengers could transfer to the Keystone Service in Harrisburg.

 

Running a separate train, on the slower New York-Allentown-Reading-Harrisburg route, and having those passengers transfer to the thru train at Harrisburg would be the better way to do it..


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#33 ainamkartma

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 02:51 PM

Via New York's southern teir looks like the shortest route.

 

But oh so slow due to mountains and curves.  In 1956-1960, the 20th Century Limited got from NY to Chicago in 15:45 via the water level route, while the Erie-Lackawanna (and Nickel Plate) competing train took 22 hours via the southern tier.  That's slower than today's LSL!  Running a train slower than Amtrak does now took some doing...

 

Ainamkartma


Edited by ainamkartma, 04 April 2018 - 02:54 PM.


#34 railgeekteen

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 05:05 PM

 

Via New York's southern teir looks like the shortest route.

 

But oh so slow due to mountains and curves.  In 1956-1960, the 20th Century Limited got from NY to Chicago in 15:45 via the water level route, while the Erie-Lackawanna (and Nickel Plate) competing train took 22 hours via the southern tier.  That's slower than today's LSL!  Running a train slower than Amtrak does now took some doing...

 

Ainamkartma

 

Is there any chance of service ever returning to that region of New York?


Edited by railgeekteen, 04 April 2018 - 05:05 PM.


#35 zephyr17

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 05:13 PM

 

 

Via New York's southern teir looks like the shortest route.

 

But oh so slow due to mountains and curves.  In 1956-1960, the 20th Century Limited got from NY to Chicago in 15:45 via the water level route, while the Erie-Lackawanna (and Nickel Plate) competing train took 22 hours via the southern tier.  That's slower than today's LSL!  Running a train slower than Amtrak does now took some doing...

 

Ainamkartma

 

Is there any chance of service ever returning to that region of New York?

 

Certainly, as long as New York state pays for it.


Pre Amtrak: SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr; Amtrak: Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-ORL), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited (NY Section), Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited, Crescent, Acela Express, Lake Shore Limited (Boston Section)
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#36 railgeekteen

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 05:26 PM

 

 

 

Via New York's southern teir looks like the shortest route.

 

But oh so slow due to mountains and curves.  In 1956-1960, the 20th Century Limited got from NY to Chicago in 15:45 via the water level route, while the Erie-Lackawanna (and Nickel Plate) competing train took 22 hours via the southern tier.  That's slower than today's LSL!  Running a train slower than Amtrak does now took some doing...

 

Ainamkartma

 

Is there any chance of service ever returning to that region of New York?

 

Certainly, as long as New York state pays for it.

 

Am aware of that, but has there been any serious talk from anyone about service coming back.



#37 zephyr17

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 06:29 PM

Well, you said "any chance" not "are there serious discussions about..."

 

In any case, "serious talk" to New York's Souther Tier would have to include financing from the State of New York, as it would not be part of the National Network train but subject to PRIIA 750 mile state/local funding requirements.  So that necessary precondition is not entirely flippant.


Edited by zephyr17, 04 April 2018 - 06:30 PM.

Pre Amtrak: SP Coast Daylight, AT&SF San Diegan, AT&SF Super Chief, D&RGW Rio Grande Zephyr; Amtrak: Southwest Limited/Chief, San Diegan/Pacific Surfliner, San Joaquin, Cascades, California/San Francisco Zephyr, Coast Starlight, Empire Builder, Sunset Limited (LA-ORL), Desert Wind, Pioneer, City of New Orleans, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited (NY Section), Cardinal, Hoosier State (Amtrak),  Hoosier State (Iowa Pacific), Ann Rutledge, Adirondack, Maple Leaf, NE Regional, Capitol Limited, Crescent, Acela Express, Lake Shore Limited (Boston Section)
Via Rail Canada: Via Canadian (CP route), Via Super Continental, Via Atlantic Limited, Via Hudson Bay, Via Skeena, Via Canadian (CN route), Via "Corridor" (Toronto-Montreal); 
Other: BC Rail Cariboo Dayliner, Alaska Railroad, Eurostar, Thalys, DB, Netherlands Rail, Austrian Railways, BR, Korail (conventional), Korail KTX

#38 railgeekteen

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 08:33 PM

Well, you said "any chance" not "are there serious discussions about..."

 

In any case, "serious talk" to New York's Souther Tier would have to include financing from the State of New York, as it would not be part of the National Network train but subject to PRIIA 750 mile state/local funding requirements.  So that necessary precondition is not entirely flippant.

Like have any local leaders mentioned or lobbied for service? 



#39 neroden

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:40 PM

All serious proposals for Southern Tier rail service -- and there have been several -- run in a different direction.

Hoboken-Scranton (via Lackawanna Cutoff) - Binghamton. Schumer supported extending that Binghamton-Cortland-Syracuse. There is an active local group trying to get service to Binghamton-Elmira-Corning... but like everyone else, it's clear to most of them that the Erie route is no good and it would have to go via Scranton and the Lackawanna Cutoff.

The Lackawanna Cutoff would open up a lot of options.
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#40 PeepersK

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Posted 21 April 2018 - 02:35 PM

To get back to the original premise of this thread -- what is the most direct.... We all look at a map from above to determine the most direct. But you also need to look at it from the side. A railroad that goes up and down hills may be just as long as the railroad that goes around those hills. So, of course the most direct railroad is the one that goes through the hills. And nothing like that was ever built between Chicago and New York -- except for Interstate 80. ;)






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