Rerouting the Pere Marquette? News article

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wwchi

Lead Service Attendant
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As a regular rider on the PM from SJ to Chicago for the past 10 years I would NOT want to be dropped from service!

article is at mbiz.com - I can't seem to paste in a link but you can search for the article about rerouting through Kalamazoo.
 
As a regular rider on the PM from SJ to Chicago for the past 10 years I would NOT want to be dropped from service!

article is at mbiz.com - I can't seem to paste in a link but you can search for the article about rerouting through Kalamazoo.
Here it is....

https://mibiz.com/news/design-build/item/23579-rerouting-trains-through-kalamazoo-could-speed-amtrak-travel-to-chicago-for-gr-riders

I agree. This would make no sense since the Wolverine and Blue Water already go through Kazoo and there is a thruway bus from GRR.
 
As a regular rider on the PM from SJ to Chicago for the past 10 years I would NOT want to be dropped from service!

article is at mbiz.com - I can't seem to paste in a link but you can search for the article about rerouting through Kalamazoo.
Here it is....

https://mibiz.com/news/design-build/item/23579-rerouting-trains-through-kalamazoo-could-speed-amtrak-travel-to-chicago-for-gr-riders

I agree. This would make no sense since the Wolverine and Blue Water already go through Kazoo and there is a thruway bus from GRR.
thanks - not sure why I couldn't paste in the link, but thanks for adding it! :)
 
This is what I glean from the article:

They need to figure out a way to connect GR and Kzoo by train, as those are the two largest communities in west Michigan.

However, they don't want to leave St. Joe, Holland, etc. in the lurch, so re-routing the PM isn't much of an option.

It sounds like basic opinion and a lot of talk right now. I didn't see anything indicating this is something that's definitely in the works.

Right now, the governor's priority (other than poisoning Flint) is to get GR, Lansing, and Detroit connected, which they mention in the article.
 
As a regular rider on the PM from SJ to Chicago for the past 10 years I would NOT want to be dropped from service!

article is at mbiz.com - I can't seem to paste in a link but you can search for the article about rerouting through Kalamazoo.
Here it is....

https://mibiz.com/news/design-build/item/23579-rerouting-trains-through-kalamazoo-could-speed-amtrak-travel-to-chicago-for-gr-riders

I agree. This would make no sense since the Wolverine and Blue Water already go through Kazoo and there is a thruway bus from GRR.
thanks - not sure why I couldn't paste in the link, but thanks for adding it! :)

It was on my facebook page and I accessed the article from there and acquired the link. Glad I could help.

The more I think of the reroute idea, the less practical it seems to me.
 
This is what I glean from the article:

They need to figure out a way to connect GR and Kzoo by train, as those are the two largest communities in west Michigan.

However, they don't want to leave St. Joe, Holland, etc. in the lurch, so re-routing the PM isn't much of an option.

It sounds like basic opinion and a lot of talk right now. I didn't see anything indicating this is something that's definitely in the works.

Right now, the governor's priority (other than poisoning Flint) is to get GR, Lansing, and Detroit connected, which they mention in the article.
A GR to Kazoo train would, IMO, be about fifth (at best) down the priority passenger service list. Coast to coast, Detroit to Toledo, SE MI to NW MI, Something involving Muskegon to connect with the ferry to Wisconsin and the Empire Builder would play far and above what's being suggested in the article.

Why not reroute the Blue Water through GRR instead? This way no service is sacrificed and then you obtain that connection.....but still, just not practical. It's not all that inconvenient to make the hour drive between the two cities. I've done it many times both from GR and Holland.
 
I agree that the PM shouldn't be rerouted, but not everybody has a car, and you know how 131 gets in the winter. ;)

I would love to have a train between Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids. Yes, it's a lower priority than other projects, but it's still worth talking about.
 
I agree that the PM shouldn't be rerouted, but not everybody has a car, and you know how 131 gets in the winter. ;)

I would love to have a train between Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids. Yes, it's a lower priority than other projects, but it's still worth talking about.

True about 131, it can be pretty crappy in wintertime. Of course, I tend to forget, I got lost in Kalamazoo last time I was there. LOL
 
Seems like a Kalamazoo to Grand Rapids connection could be done using a DMU (diesel multiple unit) connecting with the Wolerines at Kalamazoo.
 
The planning for the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative (back when it was taking place) did involve shifting Chicago-Grand Rapids trains to run via Kalamazoo, although it also had the trains continuing past Kalamazoo and terminating in Holland.
 
I wonder what the tracks are like between Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo. IMHO one could, if these tracks were updated it would make since to have a Grand Rapids Kalamazoo-Detroit train and keep the Pierre Marquette route operational. Of course this is assuming the tracks between Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo allowed such an operation. I know knitting about this infrastructure.
 
One challenge with a Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo-Detroit train is that the Kalamazoo station is west of the point where the GRR-KAL line intersects the KAL-DET line.
 
This is what I glean from the article:

They need to figure out a way to connect GR and Kzoo by train, as those are the two largest communities in west Michigan.

However, they don't want to leave St. Joe, Holland, etc. in the lurch, so re-routing the PM isn't much of an option.
They've talked about "backtracking" Kzoo-GR-Holland. But that still leaves St. Joe in the lurch.
I figure they'll end up adding a new train which runs Chi-Kzoo-GR-Holland.

It sounds like basic opinion and a lot of talk right now. I didn't see anything indicating this is something that's definitely in the works.

Right now, the governor's priority (other than poisoning Flint) is to get GR, Lansing, and Detroit connected, which they mention in the article.
I wish they'd focus on Detroit-Toledo, to bring in those *out of state visitors*, but it seems really hard to get the state government to look across the border.
 
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Four thoughts:

  1. No normal person will ever take a train from Holland to Kalamazoo via Grand Rapids since it would easily take twice as long as driving. Of course train buffs like the people who post here might once or twice for the fun of it.
  2. Similarly, no normal person in Holland will take a train to Chicago via Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo since it would just about double the time.
  3. It would take I estimate a bazillion dollars to upgrade the track between Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo for passenger service. If there is even a small fraction of that amount available it would be better spent on a junction to connect the CSX tracks to the high-speed Amtrak tracks at New Buffalo and to build a dedicated track through the CSX Wyoming yards so the Pere Marquette could travel faster than fifteen miles an hour through the yard on its way between Holland and Grand Rapids. If, as stated in the article, saving half an hour is the reason for the proposed reroute, those two upgrades would likely save more than that on the existing route.
  4. Kalamazoo already has pretty decent Amtrak service (although an additional early morning train would be nice) but the cities along the lake shore would end up with no service at all if the reroute were to happen. I’d guess the population along the lake shore is about the same as the Kalamazoo area population.
 
Four thoughts:

  1. No normal person will ever take a train from Holland to Kalamazoo via Grand Rapids since it would easily take twice as long as driving. Of course train buffs like the people who post here might once or twice for the fun of it.
  2. Similarly, no normal person in Holland will take a train to Chicago via Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo since it would just about double the time.
  3. It would take I estimate a bazillion dollars to upgrade the track between Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo for passenger service. If there is even a small fraction of that amount available it would be better spent on a junction to connect the CSX tracks to the high-speed Amtrak tracks at New Buffalo and to build a dedicated track through the CSX Wyoming yards so the Pere Marquette could travel faster than fifteen miles an hour through the yard on its way between Holland and Grand Rapids. If, as stated in the article, saving half an hour is the reason for the proposed reroute, those two upgrades would likely save more than that on the existing route.
  4. Kalamazoo already has pretty decent Amtrak service (although an additional early morning train would be nice) but the cities along the lake shore would end up with no service at all if the reroute were to happen. I’d guess the population along the lake shore is about the same as the Kalamazoo area population.
Absolutely agree, particularly with #3. That hour-long trip from Holland to GR is just agonizing, particularly at the end of the day, and if the train is an hour late besides...
 
I love the typical Michigan mindset of assuming everyone owns a car, particularly all of the college students in GR, Holland, and Kzoo...
 
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I love the typical Michigan mindset of assuming everyone owns a car, particularly all of the college students in GR, Holland, and Kzoo...
LOL I KNOW!! It's the same with any sort of public transportation around the St. Joe area - not even taxis. One measly little one way bus system that may be ok if you have a lot of time, but not if you don't. I mean of course we drive everywhere there but sometimes it would be nice to have an option NOT to! Hell, they don't even like to put in sidewalks, god forbid anyone like to WALK somewhere! LOL!
 
I love the typical Michigan mindset of assuming everyone owns a car, particularly all of the college students in GR, Holland, and Kzoo...
Since that statement was sort of aimed at me, let me say that I am a member of a group that advocates for the disabled and am well aware of the difficulties people have getting around if they do not or cannot drive for whatever reason. But rerouting the Pere Marquette isn’t likely to help non-drivers in the least. At best it will be a wash. Maybe some non-driver would benefit from a train from Grand Rapids to Kalamazoo but remember this isn’t a commuter route with multiple trains a day, it’s a one a day Amtrak train that currently leaves Grand Rapids earlier than most students get up and earlier than inbound city buses make it to the transit center next door and returns late at night after those buses have stopped running. And the other direction doesn’t work at all unless the person intends to stay overnight in Grand Rapids.
 
That statement was just a general statement. :) It's the second time I've read "they can just drive" in this thread and figured it wouldn't be the last. We really do live in an auto-centric state.

I understand why, as the auto industry used to employ a hefty chunk of residents, so we're rather conditioned to eschew public transit.
 
That statement was just a general statement. :) It's the second time I've read "they can just drive" in this thread and figured it wouldn't be the last. We really do live in an auto-centric state.

I understand why, as the auto industry used to employ a hefty chunk of residents, so we're rather conditioned to eschew public transit.
I'll be the first to admit that what I said about driving earlier was quite insensitive as yes, I'm one of those conditioned to driving over public transportation. I tend to forget that just because I ride the train for fun, others do it as a necessity. Admittedly, this attitude is probably caused by having the ability to still drive. For overlooking others that cannot, I apologize. I still think that the idea of rerouting the Pere Marquette is impractical (and probably won't happen).
 
Agreed. I don't want the PM to be re-routed. What I'd like to see is something akin to New Mexico's Rail Runner.
 
Right now, the Pere Marquette is scheduled to take approx 3 hours CHI-Holland and 4 hours CHI-Grand Rapids.

Midwest Regional Rail Initiative schedules (via Kalamazoo) estimated travel times of about 3:00-3:20 CHI-Holland and 2:30-2:50 CHI-Grand Rapids, depending on how many stops are made between CHI and Kalamazoo.

So, with a Kalamazoo route and South of the Lake improvements, Bangor and St. Joseph lose service, Holland sees similar travel times as now, and Grand Rapids sees faster times.

I'm not arguing in favor or against such a reroute, just pointing out what the studies in the last couple decades had been looking at. Obviously if we're just talking about the single daily train, it's a different situation than a full MWRRI build-out.
 
What I'd like to see is something akin to New Mexico's Rail Runner.
I'm not familiar with that train.
Regional transit.

http://www.nmrailrunner.com

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rail-runner.jpg
I wouldn't mind seeing something like that for the 131 corridor. It could incorporate places like Martin Speedway and Gun Lake Casino as possible intermediate stops. I doubt that'll happen though.
 
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