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Wish List for Amtrak/Train Service Expansions


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#1 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 08:18 AM

You don't have to tell me that these (or most of these) aren't feasible now, I already know. I just want to put as many of my pet projects in one place just in case Amtrak does hit the (Congressional/states/private investments) lottery one day. I also wanted to fight the myth that I am selfish and only care about projects that help me (and my city). Consider this my Amtrak platform if I were running for office (the PA primary is Tuesday, don't ask who I'm voting for).

 

Service to cities that currently don't have it: Phoenix, Las Vegas, Nashville, Louisville, Columbus, OH 

 

Service outside of the graveyard shift to cities that only have graveyard shift (or just outside of it) service: Cleveland, Cincinnati (pretty much most if not all of Ohio who has any service at all), Indianapolis

 

LD service (or more LD service) to cities/areas that have little or no LD service: Boston/New England/Connecticut, San Diego, San Jose, Detroit/Michigan

 

One seat rides without a transfer being required: Chicago to Philadelphia/Eastern PA/New Jersey, Florida to Boston/New England, NEC to Detroit/Michigan,

Chicago to Boston (hoping the delay doesn't become permanent). Way Down the Line: Chicago-Florida/Southeast, NEC-Texas, Cross Country)

 

More frequent service: Philadelphia/New York to Pittsburgh, Chicago to Indianapolis/Cincinnati, Chicago to Minneapolis-St. Paul, Dallas to San Antonio, Houston to San Antonio, San Francisco to Los Angeles (overnight), Atlanta to Carolina/NEC, Orlando-Miami, Orlando-Tampa
 

New or restored routes: Cleveland to Cincinnati (3-C), Dallas to Houston, Los Angeles to Las Vegas, Florida to New Orleans (possible extension to Texas), Atlanta to Florida, Kansas City to Texas, Cincinnati/Columbus to Pittsburgh/Philadelphia, Toledo to Detroit/Michigan, Indianapolis to St. Louis

 

Opportunity for same day transfers in New Orleans from east to west like there currently exists in Chicago so passengers in the south can travel across the country faster without having to come north to Chicago or stay overnight in NOL.

 

So this list is clearly national in scope and not just Philadelphia.

 

Feel free to share other wish list ideas I haven't mentioned.


Edited by Philly Amtrak Fan, 24 April 2016 - 08:31 AM.

Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#2 Eric S

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 10:01 AM

First, more Thruway bus connections (here, there, and everywhere - or close to it), for at least a few reasons - to extend the "rail network" to areas that are unlikely to see actual rail service anytime soon, to test the waters and/or develop ridership prior to introducing rail service, and to add additional frequencies at times that may not support a full train. I know that "no one rides buses" but California proves otherwise. And adding Thruway bus service is extremely inexpensive, especially compared to adding train service.

 

Second, more and better corridor service - faster and/or more reliable trains, additional frequencies on existing lines (with a goal of service every hour on major lines and every 2 hours on many other lines), extensions to existing lines, and entirely new lines. 



#3 Thirdrail7

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 10:18 AM

If this list is without consideration of money, feasibility or whether it passes operational muster....and deals STRICTLY with what we WANT to see if we had money and equipment, I accept your list and add a few of my own "personal" projects.

 

I want the Auto train extended! grins.gif

 

Shut up everyone....it's my list!! :ph34r:

 

Just hear me out, Ok?

 

When the GM plant in Linden, NJ closed and with the high speed catenary construction poised to begin and CSX planning on upgrades to its Virginia Avenue tunnel, I lobbied for leasing the former Conrail yard and propping up the Auto train. You'd capture a larger segment of travel and the location to that yard is ideal.

 

I proposed two segments that split/merged. The passenger consist would run between Linden, NJ and Sanford, Florida. You'd load the appropriate passengers and their cars in the auto racks at Linden and depart for Lorton. Upon arrival at Lorton, passengers would step into the consist just like they board any other train en route. However, their cars would already be loaded in another set of Auto racks in Lorton. When the main train came in, the crew would add the additional Lorton auto racks to the rear end, and the train would continue south.

 

Northbound, the train would depart Sanford. Upon arrival in Lorton, the passengers for Lorton would disembark and a crew would grab the Lorton bound auto racks. After they are cut off, the train would continue to Linden with the rest of the passengers and their cars.

 

Limitations include the need for another set of Superliners, the obvious costs of the facility and a few places where the catenary would need to be raised.  The gauntlet track in the B&P tunnel would need to be restored and the route between the Philadelphia bypass and Amtrak (The High Line) would need restoration. Additionally, it is contingent on Amtrak chipping in for CSX's Virginia Ave tunnel project to allow passenger operation. This is because the trains would not be able to enter of go through Washington DC. It would have to use the Landover Line (the bypass) through Anacostia. That line used to allow for 50mph operation. That's not too bad for its length and throw in a truck upgrade for the auto carriers and the train could do 90 mph in some spots on the NEC.

 

Another variation of this move was to use the former Chrysler Auto Plant Yard in Newark, Delaware (just south of Wilmington). It is convenient to route 95, 495, 141, 279, 13,  and route 1. Originating the train at Chrysler would save billions in upgrades since most of the route between Chrysler and Landover is already set up for Auto Rack operation (since it was an auto plant.)  You may be able to squeak by using the existing set up if you originate at Chrysler, but you'd need a good move (and we know that is unlikely in the summer.)

 

 

Ok, you can laugh now.

 

Additional wish list items include:

 

The previously mentioned through Florida trains to Bos, linking North and South station Boston to allow the Downeasters to run into south station, easing connections.

 

Restoration of the Broadway. At the very minimum, another Pennsylvanian which is likely to occur.

 

Restoration of the inland route.

 

Restoration the the Gulf Breeze section of the Crescent, splitting the consist at BHM for operation to MOE. This allows for much needed additional capacity between NYP-ATL while serving another market. The train could possibly meet a restored Gulf Coast trains for better route between ATL and points in Florida.

 

Restoration of the Cape Codder, a weekend train from Nyp to Cape Cod. It performed quite well when it operated. It was cut due to equipment constraints and the associated costs. They tried running it as a New England express to Boston, with a transfer to an MBTA set of equipment at PVD for points on the Cape. This sank the service since as previously indicated, some people really hate transferring...especially to a commuter set of equipment.

 

An additional stand alone train from NYP to CLT via Roanoke. I actually timed this train on another board and found equipment ( you can start here and read the next few posts). Unfortunately, I wasn't pleased with the return train operating as scheduled NEC train. There was just too much room for error with little chance for manipulation. However, that was with the current fleet plan and constraints. If equipment isn't an issue, run it as a stand alone train with passengers being received/discharged only on the NEC. Why not? We're rich, funded and flushed with equipment in this La La land. Plus, the host railroads love us all of a sudden. We might as well extend the damn thing to Columbia while we're at it. This would provide additional service to Charlottesville and Lynchburg as well, giving them a better pattern of service.

 

Restoration of the Montrealer with its original consist, including the piano bar, sleeping car and cafeteria car. This train ran quite well and had a good amount of patronage even though it ran in the middle of the night between the main cities. That may have been the point though. It was canceled when the route (NECR) basically fell apart.

 

Restoration of the Sunday only Niagara Rainbow, which ran overnight train from Toronto to NYP. This train also ran surprisingly well. That's because people in the 90's certainly knew how to party. Equipment losses killed this train.

 

Here's one that is low hanging fruit and may be the feasible. Through WAS-ALB-MTR service. This was done be cutting an engine and few cars and adding an engine to the opposite end of a scheduled NEC train. It was a bit unreliable though due to the late connections south/west bound.However, the north/east train ran like a champ!

 

A daily Cardinal would be nice, I suppose. Why not? We're rich! We'll finally be able to see if increased service would enhance the route.

 

Restoration of a daily Pioneer and Desert Wind. They could split away from the Zephyr like days of old, but if additional equipment is available and we're flush with cash, the portion between CHI-DEN could see three trains a day provided the timing works. They key point is daily operation of each section. None of this Pioneer runs three days, the Desert Wind runs three days and everyone takes Sunday off! It needs to be a daily operation.

This would plug a few holes in the system network including providing service to Wyoming. Additionally, it would restore service to the city I like pronouncing the most: Winnemucca.  Say it with me: Winnemucca. Now, say it fast!  Winnemuccawinnemuccawinnemuccawinnemucca. Pocatello is fun to say too, but nothing beats Winnemucca.

 

 

Had enough yet? I have...for now. I'm sure I can think of a few more when my brain is fully charged.


They say laughter is the best medicine. Obviously they never posted on AU.


#4 JayPea

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 10:33 AM

As long as it's what we personally would like to see, I would like to add one more city to the list of those I would like to see service outside of graveyard shift to: Spokane. Spokane is my "home" station (a city that, by the way, would LOSE service under one of your propsals, Philly,that of truncating the Empire Builder at the Twin Cities :P) and I would love to see daytime service there.

Edited by JayPea, 24 April 2016 - 10:34 AM.

Amtrak Routes Traveled: City of New Orleans, State House/Lincoln Service, Empire Builder, California Zephyr, Southwest Chief, Cascades, Crescent, Capitol Limited, Coast Starlight, Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited, Pacific Surfliner, Cardinal. 
Pre-Amtrak Routes Traveled: Empire Builder (Great Northern), North Coast Limited (Northern Pacific), Abraham Lincoln (Gulf, Mobile, and Ohio), City of Hinkle  (Union Pacific) Panama Limited (Illinois Central)
Bustitutions: Portland-Spokane (EB),Galesburg-Bloomington (CZ/Lincoln Service ) 
Amtrak Miles: 77509

Pre-Amtrak Miles: 8478
Bustitution Miles: 450
Excursion trains ridden:  Centralia and Chehalis Railroad, Mt. Hood Scenic Railroad, Alaska Railroad, 1880 Train (Black Hills Central RR) and trains at the Illinois Railway Museum, California Railway Museum, and the Monticello (IL) Railroad Museum.


#5 JayPea

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 10:40 AM

If this list is without consideration of money, feasibility or whether it passes operational muster....and deals STRICTLY with what we WANT to see if we had money and equipment, I accept your list and add a few of my own "personal" projects.
 
I want the Auto train extended! grins.gif
 
Shut up everyone....it's my list!! :ph34r:
 
Just hear me out, Ok?
 
When the GM plant in Linden, NJ closed and with the high speed catenary construction poised to begin and CSX planning on upgrades to its Virginia Avenue tunnel, I lobbied for leasing the former Conrail yard and propping up the Auto train. You'd capture a larger segment of travel and the location to that yard is ideal.
 
I proposed two segments that split/merged. The passenger consist would run between Linden, NJ and Sanford, Florida. You'd load the appropriate passengers and their cars in the auto racks at Linden and depart for Lorton. Upon arrival at Lorton, passengers would step into the consist just like they board any other train en route. However, their cars would already be loaded in another set of Auto racks in Lorton. When the main train came in, the crew would add the additional Lorton auto racks to the rear end, and the train would continue south.
 
Northbound, the train would depart Sanford. Upon arrival in Lorton, the passengers for Lorton would disembark and a crew would grab the Lorton bound auto racks. After they are cut off, the train would continue to Linden with the rest of the passengers and their cars.
 
Limitations include the need for another set of Superliners, the obvious costs of the facility and a few places where the catenary would need to be raised.  The gauntlet track in the B&P tunnel would need to be restored and the route between the Philadelphia bypass and Amtrak (The High Line) would need restoration. Additionally, it is contingent on Amtrak chipping in for CSX's Virginia Ave tunnel project to allow passenger operation. This is because the trains would not be able to enter of go through Washington DC. It would have to use the Landover Line (the bypass) through Anacostia. That line used to allow for 50mph operation. That's not too bad for its length and throw in a truck upgrade for the auto carriers and the train could do 90 mph in some spots on the NEC.
 
Another variation of this move was to use the former Chrysler Auto Plant Yard in Newark, Delaware (just south of Wilmington). It is convenient to route 95, 495, 141, 279, 13,  and route 1. Originating the train at Chrysler would save billions in upgrades since most of the route between Chrysler and Landover is already set up for Auto Rack operation (since it was an auto plant.)  You may be able to squeak by using the existing set up if you originate at Chrysler, but you'd need a good move (and we know that is unlikely in the summer.)
 
 
Ok, you can laugh now.
 
Additional wish list items include:
 
The previously mentioned through Florida trains to Bos, linking North and South station Boston to allow the Downeasters to run into south station, easing connections.
 
Restoration of the Broadway. At the very minimum, another Pennsylvanian which is likely to occur.
 
Restoration of the inland route.
 
Restoration the the Gulf Breeze section of the Crescent, splitting the consist at BHM for operation to MOE. This allows for much needed additional capacity between NYP-ATL while serving another market. The train could possibly meet a restored Gulf Coast trains for better route between ATL and points in Florida.
 
Restoration of the Cape Codder, a weekend train from Nyp to Cape Cod. It performed quite well when it operated. It was cut due to equipment constraints and the associated costs. They tried running it as a New England express to Boston, with a transfer to an MBTA set of equipment at PVD for points on the Cape. This sank the service since as previously indicated, some people really hate transferring...especially to a commuter set of equipment.
 
An additional stand alone train from NYP to CLT via Roanoke. I actually timed this train on another board and found equipment ( you can start here and read the next few posts). Unfortunately, I wasn't pleased with the return train operating as scheduled NEC train. There was just too much room for error with little chance for manipulation. However, that was with the current fleet plan and constraints. If equipment isn't an issue, run it as a stand alone train with passengers being received/discharged only on the NEC. Why not? We're rich, funded and flushed with equipment in this La La land. Plus, the host railroads love us all of a sudden. We might as well extend the damn thing to Columbia while we're at it. This would provide additional service to Charlottesville and Lynchburg as well, giving them a better pattern of service.
 
Restoration of the Montrealer with its original consist, including the piano bar, sleeping car and cafeteria car. This train ran quite well and had a good amount of patronage even though it ran in the middle of the night between the main cities. That may have been the point though. It was canceled when the route (NECR) basically fell apart.
 
Restoration of the Sunday only Niagara Rainbow, which ran overnight train from Toronto to NYP. This train also ran surprisingly well. That's because people in the 90's certainly knew how to party. Equipment losses killed this train.
 
Here's one that is low hanging fruit and may be the feasible. Through WAS-ALB-MTR service. This was done be cutting an engine and few cars and adding an engine to the opposite end of a scheduled NEC train. It was a bit unreliable though due to the late connections south/west bound.However, the north/east train ran like a champ!
 
A daily Cardinal would be nice, I suppose. Why not? We're rich! We'll finally be able to see if increased service would enhance the route.
 
Restoration of a daily Pioneer and Desert Wind. They could split away from the Zephyr like days of old, but if additional equipment is available and we're flush with cash, the portion between CHI-DEN could see three trains a day provided the timing works. They key point is daily operation of each section. None of this Pioneer runs three days, the Desert Wind runs three days and everyone takes Sunday off! It needs to be a daily operation.
This would plug a few holes in the system network including providing service to Wyoming. Additionally, it would restore service to the city I like pronouncing the most: Winnemucca.  Say it with me: Winnemucca. Now, say it fast!  Winnemuccawinnemuccawinnemuccawinnemucca. Pocatello is fun to say too, but nothing beats Winnemucca.
 
 
Had enough yet? I have...for now. I'm sure I can think of a few more when my brain is fully charged.


But Winnemuc-muc-mucca already has service by way of the CZ. And yes it is fun to say. :lol:

Amtrak Routes Traveled: City of New Orleans, State House/Lincoln Service, Empire Builder, California Zephyr, Southwest Chief, Cascades, Crescent, Capitol Limited, Coast Starlight, Texas Eagle/Sunset Limited, Silver Meteor, Lake Shore Limited, Pacific Surfliner, Cardinal. 
Pre-Amtrak Routes Traveled: Empire Builder (Great Northern), North Coast Limited (Northern Pacific), Abraham Lincoln (Gulf, Mobile, and Ohio), City of Hinkle  (Union Pacific) Panama Limited (Illinois Central)
Bustitutions: Portland-Spokane (EB),Galesburg-Bloomington (CZ/Lincoln Service ) 
Amtrak Miles: 77509

Pre-Amtrak Miles: 8478
Bustitution Miles: 450
Excursion trains ridden:  Centralia and Chehalis Railroad, Mt. Hood Scenic Railroad, Alaska Railroad, 1880 Train (Black Hills Central RR) and trains at the Illinois Railway Museum, California Railway Museum, and the Monticello (IL) Railroad Museum.


#6 jis

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 10:42 AM

Did we miss the Crescent Star?

I would also like to see a Front Range Rocket running all the way from El Paso through Denver all the way up through Great Falls all the way into Canada.

A San Francisco Chief from Chicago via the Santa Fe trans con route and then across Tehachapi all the way to Oakland.

#7 Bob Dylan

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 10:52 AM

The Interamerican via the old Texas Chief route ( with a Houston Section from the Metroplex) could connect in Laredo with a revived Aztec Eagle, and the current Texas Eagle should go daily between CHI and LAX with the long discussed SAS-NOL Shuttle being actually started!

I totally agree with the Broadway coming to life again, but failing that the long planned cutout cars from the Pennsylvanian to the Cap in PGH should become a reality!

Last dream train is a LD Route through Vegas however it can be worked out!YMMV

Edited by Bob Dylan, 24 April 2016 - 10:54 AM.

 
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Yet there isn't a train I wouldn't take,No matter where its going!.." -Edna St. Vincent Millay

#8 west point

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 11:13 AM

What is very important is the thru passengers connecting at stations.  Especially the number of different destination of inbound CHI trains.  Not just one train but many. It is not enough to warrant a dedicated thru car but still.   And those passengers are going from one small city thru CHI, WASH, ETC to another small city.  You are getting the beginning of hub and spoke systems. 

Hub cities in the future may be Richmond, Raleigh, CLT, ATL, JAX, MEM, STL, NOL, DAL, DEN,  MSP,  will make a real national Amtrak system.  That will be like the hub systems in Europe.  



#9 ScouseAndy

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 12:13 PM

I'd like to see a direct NYP to London UK tunnel being built (with spurs serving both Boston & Dublin- Ireland) after all its only 3,500 miles. On the West coast I'd like to see a connection made to Alaska and then under the Bering Straits and make a connection to the transib. This could then make a round trip from New York to New York possible in about 3 to 4 weeks non stop?

 

Who wants to join me?

 

Costs? - I reckon perhaps 12 maybe 18 months worth of the global arms budget should cover it.



#10 jis

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 12:35 PM

You will need to stop for the honey wagon somewhere or two :P

#11 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 02:03 PM

Did we miss the Crescent Star?

 

I have family in Dallas I'm looking to visit so I'd certainly be in favor of it. I'm hoping the schedule is better than the Thruway Bus arriving in Dallas at 3:40am. The train gets into Meridian at 2:58pm and the Thruway Bus route is listed as 507 miles so at 50 mph the train isn't going to make it Dallas by midnight. It might have to be a separate train from the Crescent for it to be feasible.

 

What is very important is the thru passengers connecting at stations.  Especially the number of different destination of inbound CHI trains.  Not just one train but many. It is not enough to warrant a dedicated thru car but still.   And those passengers are going from one small city thru CHI, WASH, ETC to another small city.  You are getting the beginning of hub and spoke systems. 

Hub cities in the future may be Richmond, Raleigh, CLT, ATL, JAX, MEM, STL, NOL, DAL, DEN,  MSP,  will make a real national Amtrak system.  That will be like the hub systems in Europe.  

 

If we're not going to have any coast to coast train, I think we need some transfer point similar to Chicago down south. New Orleans is the obvious choice if you can adjust the Crescent and Sunset Limited schedules as I proposed previously (and if the NOL-Florida train is added, two trains to transfer to/from the SL). Perhaps if the Crescent Star or similar NYP-DAL service is started, DAL or SAS could work.

 

Certainly what is realistic and what isn't is a good debate, let's avoid obvious sarcasm here.

Attached Files


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#12 neroden

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Posted 24 April 2016 - 08:31 PM

The Broadway restoration (or, more accurately, any direct PHL-HAR-PIT-CLE-CHI train) seems like the most no-brainery of no-brainers for restoration.  Most of the other proposals would require meaningful amounts of capital funding for track improvements.  This doesn't.


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#13 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 07:04 AM

The Broadway restoration (or, more accurately, any direct PHL-HAR-PIT-CLE-CHI train) seems like the most no-brainery of no-brainers for restoration.  Most of the other proposals would require meaningful amounts of capital funding for track improvements.  This doesn't.

 

I'd be more than thrilled if it came back using the current tracks but I think the detour into Michigan as All Aboard Ohio suggested is worthwhile to introduce Michigan to PHL/NYP traffic. Of course if we can get both a PHL-PGH-CHI train and a Michigan-NEC train (assumedly via Empire Route to NYP) that would be even better.

 

Amtrak just needs tracks between TOL and DET. Sure it will cost money but you wouldn't have to pay NS TOL to Porter access then.


Edited by Philly Amtrak Fan, 25 April 2016 - 08:16 AM.

Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#14 trainviews

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 12:30 PM

The Broadway restoration (or, more accurately, any direct PHL-HAR-PIT-CLE-CHI train) seems like the most no-brainery of no-brainers for restoration.  Most of the other proposals would require meaningful amounts of capital funding for track improvements.  This doesn't.

 

Are you sure? If you use the current Pennsylvanian spot, then the HAR-PIT leg would be capital cost free, but especially NS on the crowded line into Chicago is probably not interested in another train without upgrades. The "South of the Lake" project which would make room for more trains is projected at a couple of billions AFAIR. And do anyone know anything about CSX for PIT-CLE?

 

I think the only connection that could be started with minimal capital costs is the through cars. Which on the other hand could build momentum for the necessary investments for a train on it's own. 



#15 jis

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 01:40 PM

Are you sure? If you use the current Pennsylvanian spot, then the HAR-PIT leg would be capital cost free, but especially NS on the crowded line into Chicago is probably not interested in another train without upgrades. The "South of the Lake" project which would make room for more trains is projected at a couple of billions AFAIR. And do anyone know anything about CSX for PIT-CLE?

Why would we want to consider CSX for the PGH (not PIT unless you are talking airport) - CLE, when there is a perfectly good NS route that is already used by the Capitol Limited? And yes, trying to use a CSX routing would actually require some addition track work probably.

 

IMHO Neroden is correct in saying that on the face of it, with freight traffic easing off, it is unlikely that adding another train would require significant capital investment in trackage, specially if Amtrak agrees to mesh their schedule nicely with a bunch of hot shots taking a bit of a run time hit in the process.



#16 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 04:27 PM

 

The Broadway restoration (or, more accurately, any direct PHL-HAR-PIT-CLE-CHI train) seems like the most no-brainery of no-brainers for restoration.  Most of the other proposals would require meaningful amounts of capital funding for track improvements.  This doesn't.

 

Are you sure? If you use the current Pennsylvanian spot, then the HAR-PIT leg would be capital cost free, but especially NS on the crowded line into Chicago is probably not interested in another train without upgrades. The "South of the Lake" project which would make room for more trains is projected at a couple of billions AFAIR. And do anyone know anything about CSX for PIT-CLE?

 

I think the only connection that could be started with minimal capital costs is the through cars. Which on the other hand could build momentum for the necessary investments for a train on it's own. 

 

 

Back after they canceled the BL they first required the connection (like today), then they had through cars (446/447), then they made a separate train. During the beginning (Nov. 96 timetable), the new TR had only overnight coaches and no overnight sleepers.

 

http://www.timetable...029nr&item=0018

http://www.timetable...0414n&item=0015

http://www.timetable...1110n&item=0023

 

I've said before why not just run a sleeperless train first until the Viewliner II's come in?

 

Back in 1995, the Three Rivers was just a second Pennsylvanian so it arrived in PGH later which made the layover shorter as opposed to the current 4 hour one. So if Amtrak just gets a second Pennsylvanian and shifts the schedule, then possibly the later Pennsylvanian arrives in Pittsburgh around 10pm as opposed to around 8pm and it would make the Pennsylvanian-CL transfer a little less lousy.

 

 

 

Are you sure? If you use the current Pennsylvanian spot, then the HAR-PIT leg would be capital cost free, but especially NS on the crowded line into Chicago is probably not interested in another train without upgrades. The "South of the Lake" project which would make room for more trains is projected at a couple of billions AFAIR. And do anyone know anything about CSX for PIT-CLE?

Why would we want to consider CSX for the PGH (not PIT unless you are talking airport) - CLE, when there is a perfectly good NS route that is already used by the Capitol Limited? And yes, trying to use a CSX routing would actually require some addition track work probably.

 

 

AAO (http://freepdfhostin.../cf26514bc8.pdf) two reroutes, one through Michigan and one through Youngstown and Ravenna-Kent between PGH and CLE. I am in favor of the Michigan reroute despite it probably being more expensive. I am not yet sold on the Youngstown reroute unless it can be done relatively cheap. The report lists "Restore Ravenna track connection" at $5 million and "New stations -- New Castle, Ravenna, Youngstown" at $7 million. So that's $12 million when AAO's total price tag including the Michigan reroute is $115 million.


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#17 jis

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Posted 25 April 2016 - 04:36 PM

I hope the other connection that was built from NS to CSX near New Castle for moving the Broadway Ltd. to the B&O is still in good order. Otherwise that will need some work to restore it too. At that time it was claimed by Conrail that it was necessary only for handing the Broadway off to CSX.



#18 MARC Rider

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 05:43 PM

How about through cars from the Capitol to Detroit/Ann Arbor? I sure hate having to get up early to get off in Toledo and wait for the Ambus.

#19 MARC Rider

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 05:49 PM

Did we miss the Crescent Star?

I would also like to see a Front Range Rocket running all the way from El Paso through Denver all the way up through Great Falls all the way into Canada.

A San Francisco Chief from Chicago via the Santa Fe trans con route and then across Tehachapi all the way to Oakland.



How about corridor service between Albuquerque, Colorado Springs, Denver, and Cheyenne?

#20 MARC Rider

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Posted 26 April 2016 - 05:52 PM

Corridor service Baltimore - Washington and Pittsburgh. Sure is a lot of traffic on I 70 that could be diverted. Or at least a MARC train to Cumberland.




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