Counting segments on joint/split trains

Shop deals on ebay
Advertise with us
shop deals on amazon
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

copperdeer

Train Attendant
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
15
How does it work with # of segments for a USA rail pass with trains that join or split, such as EB or LSL? Sometimes these are represented as connections in the online booking, so does that make it two segments?
 
A Google search quickly leads to this definition - straight from Amtrak: " A travel segment is anytime a rider gets on then off of the train."
 
If you take a separate "train" number, it counts as another segment.

Example: If you take "train" 27 from CHI to PDX or "train" 421 from CHI to LAX or "train" 49 from NYP to CHI, you use 1 segment. However, if you take "train" 7 to SPK connecting to "train" 27 or "train" 21 to SAS connecting to "train" 1 or "train" 49 to ALB connecting to "train" 449, I believe you must use 2 segments.
 
Okay, so while you can book the 27 "concurrent" to 7 all the way from Chicago without transfer to PDX, there is no 448 from Chicago to Boston, you must take 48 then "transfer" to 448 in Albany. So it just depends on the way the trains are assigned.
 
While there is a "48 to ALB" and a "448 from ALB to BOS", there is also a "448 from CHI to BOS"! While it is true that during the construction at ALB you need to change to/from a stub train, you can still book 448/449 all the way thru.
 
zephyr17 said:
Put simply, if you have separate train numbers on your ticket, it is two segments. Like CHI-SPK 7 SPK-PDX 27 two segments. CHI-PDX 27 one segment.
Click to expand...
That, however, seems contrary to Amtrak's definition of a segment: http://blog.amtrak.com/2014/07/usarailpass/ Neither of your examples has the passenger getting off the train in Spokane. Perhaps going from one car in the consist to that part of consist slated to go to Portland - but not off the train/consist. Or so it seems to my widdle noggin.
 
The system is unaware that the two trains are physically connected. In Amtrak's view you are getting off of one train and on to another one.

The logic is consistent if you understand the ticketing system.
 
You may not get off the train, but you take 2 "trains" (numbers). In the old days of the 100 point minimum, you could take "train" 49 SYR-ROC and "train" 449 ROC-BUF, and earn 100 points for "each train" and earn 200 points total - even thou you did not even change seats!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
niemi24s said:
zephyr17 said:
Put simply, if you have separate train numbers on your ticket, it is two segments. Like CHI-SPK 7 SPK-PDX 27 two segments. CHI-PDX 27 one segment.
Click to expand...
That, however, seems contrary to Amtrak's definition of a segment: http://blog.amtrak.com/2014/07/usarailpass/ Neither of your examples has the passenger getting off the train in Spokane. Perhaps going from one car in the consist to that part of consist slated to go to Portland - but not off the train/consist. Or so it seems to my widdle noggin.
Click to expand...
Two numbers = 2 separate trains as far as Amtrak's systems are concerned. Logically what you say is true. Doesn't matter, though. System reads 7-SPK-27 same way it does 4-LAX-14.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hey! I got it to show 448/449 all the way in/out of CHI now, maybe it was just the dates I was looking at before. So as long as the trip is available on the same train number, then there's no concern about it being more than one segment.
 
Yeah, I know, I'm just trying to get everything exact before I go ahead and pull the trigger on the rail pass.
 
Ryan said:
The logic is consistent if you understand the ticketing system.
Click to expand...
I should have suspected there was something inherently wrong with Amtraks own definition of a segment on its own RailPass: " A travel segment is anytime a rider gets on then off of the train." Taken literally, a trip from CHI to SEA on the EB would count as 5 segments if a passenger were to get off then back on at each of the 4 scheduled long stops between the end points. Silly me! :unsure:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
niemi24s said:
A Google search quickly leads to this definition - straight from Amtrak: " A travel segment is anytime a rider gets on then off of the train."
Click to expand...
I don't know if that really defines it.

I took the Keystone once, and we changed trains in PHL. The next train was waiting for us, we took our seat checks with us, and then boarded the new train. I'm not 100% sure why, although it could have been because they used fewer cars once they got past PHL. However, it was still considered a single segment and the same train number.
 
BCL said:
niemi24s said:
A Google search quickly leads to this definition - straight from Amtrak: " A travel segment is anytime a rider gets on then off of the train."
Click to expand...
I don't know if that really defines it.
Click to expand...
While that phrase can be found in two different places written by Amtrak, your anecdotal information doesn't define it either - that just happens to be the way it worked for you at one time. But Ryan is correct. I've got to quit thinking like an engineer, who uses logic and the scientific method. Those two concepts don't seem to have universal applicability in this thing titled the National Railroad Public Corporation.
 
Actually, it's very logical, but I've already explained that.

It's completely and utterly impossible to write something that's simple and easy to comprehend that covers every imaginable corner case. That's not endemic to Amtrak, that's just the real world (which unfortunately isn't an engineering textbook).
 
So the definition of a RailPass segment should be "Each segment is a separate, but not necessarily different, train number on a ticket"?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
niemi24s said:
So the definition of a RailPass segment should be "Each segment is a separate, but not necessarily different, train number on a ticket"?
Click to expand...
All I know is that the one and only time I rode the Keystone, I had a ticket listing one segment and one train number, but I rode on two trains. The move to the next train was fully planned. I don't have any other experiences on the Keystone to compare it to.

I paid $52 for the ticket and got 104 AGR points - actually the only time I've ever gotten more than 100 AGR points from a single "segment". If it were another segment I would have gotten 200 total points since the 100-point minimum still existed.
 
Is there any connection between the AGR system and the RailPass system? I know nothing about the AGR system and - as you can probably tell - very little about the RailPass system. I don't get out much! :blush:
 
It is pretty obviously a system thing in Arrow. Different number = different train. Pretty obvious if you think like a programmer. You can argue it is a data definition problem, which it is, but it is difficult if not impossible to put compensating logic in the processing that would not cause other issues. You could easily correct it in the data structures. It is an old system that was based on airline systems and airplanes do not split in two. If you think like an engineer then THINK like an engineer.
 
The Keystone thing is one of those one-of, corner cases. For some operational reason the equipment wasn't able to run through, so folks had to change. One train number, one segment for both AGR and railpass purposes.

Same thing can happen when (for example) there is a derailment in Montana and a bus bridge connects the two trains that can't run through. You get off of one train and on another, but it's still one segment.

On the converse, when you "move" from 8 to 28 without having getting off in Spokane, that's two segments, since the system sees it as two trains.

It's not rocket surgery.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top