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Trying to Improve Amtrak Schedules in Ohio


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#1 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 09:31 PM

Of all the states that have Amtrak service, I would think Ohio collectively is among the states that have the worst departure/arrival times along the Amtrak system. Most of the scheduled times are either near or during the graveyard shift (times that most adults would not want to be awake, especially in Am-shacks). From experience, I can say Utah is pretty bad too. There are probably others and a few states with no service at all but Ohio is notable because it is a state with a large population. Two of the largest cities in Ohio, Cleveland and Cincinnati, have late night/overnight times. 

 

Certainly the lack of Amtrak service in Ohio can be blamed on John Kasich and other governors that have neglected rail service. But other states do not have state supported trains and are served by LD trains at better times. Based on the schedules, it looks like Amtrak sees Ohio as a pass through state between CHI and the NEC. Could schedules be changed or trains added to better serve Ohio?

 

There are currently two routes that pass through Ohio, the TOL-CLE branch which is served by the CL and LSL and the CIN branch which is served by the Cardinal. For Ohio, they have essentially two choices: arrive/leave during the graveyard shift and allow transfers to the West Coast in CHI or arrive/leave at better times and lose the ability to transfer to the west.

 

Ideally, you could reschedule either the CL or LSL to serve TOL and CLE at better times. The problem is both trains have a lot of eastern passengers who would lose the ability to transfer in CHI if the schedule shifted.

 

I had previously proposed new trains from CHI to the NEC via Michigan. Another option would be to extend the Pennsylvanian to CHI and shift the CL schedule to arrive in PGH before midnight and leave PGH early in the morning so they would serve Ohio at better times:

 

              29 (7 hr shift)     30 (6 hr shift)

WAS      11:05pm               7:05am
PGH       6:48am/6:55am  11:05pm/11:20pm
CLE        9:53am/9:59am   7:45pm/7:54pm
TOL      12:08pm/12:22pm 5:39pm/5:49pm
CHI         3:45pm               12:40pm
 
With an early morning arrival into WAS and late night departure from WAS, you create many more transfer opportunities (even the Carolinian and Palmetto can transfer to the CL). Anyone in Ohio who wishes to transfer to the west in CHI could still take the LSL and anyone in PGH could take the extended Pennsylvanian.
 
The problem would be any passenger transferring from west of CHI traveling to WAS would have to then take the Pennsylvanian to PHL and transfer to WAS. Also anyone who wants to double transfer between west of CHI to south of WAS would be in trouble. Using AAO's Pennsylvanian extension (http://freepdfhostin.../cf26514bc8.pdf), the Pennsylvanian would get into PHL at 3:48pm so a transfer to the Cresent isn't possible (7 minute leeway) and you would have an hour and 10 minutes to get to the SM. To arrive into PHL earlier, you could not run the Pennsylvanian through Michigan. The Pennsylvanian can leave CHI at 8:40pm, arrive in PGH at 7:05am, leave in PGH at 7:30am (the current time) and arrive in PHL at 2:55pm. You could shift these times a half hour or an hour earlier to arrive in PHL earlier. If you want to add Michigan service, you can add to the CL schedule. That would require a later westbound arrival time into CHI and an earlier eastbound departure from CHI.
 
If you shift the Cardinal, you lose fewer potential transfers than shifting the LSL and CL

 

The "ideal" schedule from Cincinnati's perspective (ignoring transfer possibilities) is for the train to arrive eastbound into CIN before midnight and westbound into CIN early in the morning.

 

               51 (6 hr shift)      50 (6 hr shift)
NYP       12:45pm               3:58pm
PHL         2:15pm               2:26pm
WAS        5:05pm              12:19pm
CVS        7:48pm/7:57pm   9:10am/9:19am
CIN         7:36am/7:46am   9:17pm/9:27pm
IND      11:20am/12:00pm  5:50pm/5:59pm
CHI         4:05pm               11:45am
 
The arrival/departure times in CIN would be way better than what they are now. The train also gets into NYP a lot earlier and leaves a lot later. You would lose the ability to transfer in CHI for western trains but you would have more time to transfer to/from the SM and Crescent. In NYP, you could then catch a night train to BOS/New England.
 
The Cardinal schedule back in the late 70's/early 80's also had "good" CIN times and didn't allow for western transfers so these schedules wouldn't be unprecedented.
 
 
Now these schedules wouldn't work under the current Cardinal/Hoosier State arrangement. The CHI-IND legs would then overlap and Iowa Pacific would be forced to use two trains rather than the same train for both the northbound and southbound routes.
 
On the other hand, I think these schedules would work for a daily Cardinal train. Amtrak's PRIIA plans would be to combine the Cardinal and the Hoosier State into a daily Cardinal. But if you do that, you lose the partnership with Iowa Pacific and some of you sound pleased with the dome cars.
 
What if we had a daily Cardinal using these times and then had a separate daily Hoosier State train using the current times? So Indianapolis would have two daily trains to CHI. Passengers who want to transfer in CHI to/from the west can take the existing times (Hoosier State) while passengers who just want to go to CHI can take the new, better Cardinal times. These times also are way better for travel from IND to the East Coast. To extend the Hoosier State to CIN, you would need a second set and you'd have a train originating from CIN and arriving in CIN in the middle of the night. Would a sleeper car be required? The eastbound train CHI to CIN couldn't practically leave CHI any earlier than 5:45pm. You might be able to leave CIN two hours later and arrive in CHI at 12:05pm (delays would be less of a problem as the train is only CIN-CHI).
 
I think the Cardinal shift is more practical than the Capitol Limited shift. You would only require the Cardinal to go daily which Amtrak (and many AU members) would like anyway. CIN passengers would lose the ability to transfer west of CHI but would have better departure/arrival times all along the Cardinal route (and some additional transfer opportunities in WAS). It would be easier than adding a new CHI-NEC train (although I certainly would like to see one for other reasons: CHI-Keystone, better times for CLE and TOL, and the possibility of NEC to Michigan service).

Edited by Philly Amtrak Fan, 29 January 2016 - 07:34 AM.

Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#2 TylerP42

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 09:41 PM

Could I use some of your proposals to talk to some people in the Toledo Area who are in charge of the transportation there?

Just a 19 year old with a love for the railroad. 
Trains Taken:
Capitol Limited, Empire Builder, Wolverine, Lake Shore Limited, Hiawatha, Lincoln Service,(Birthday Trip Next), Southwest Chief, Coast Starlight, California Zephyr (5,640 Miles) END OF TRIP, Acela Express, Northeast Regional, Silver Star, Carolinian, Ethan Allen Express , Adirondack, Texas Eagle, VIA Rail Corridor Service (Toronto-Hamilton/Aldershot)

20,221 Miles By Rail...
 
 


#3 keelhauled

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 10:22 PM

It seems logistically the easiest solution is to reroute Empire Service train 281 from Niagara Falls to Cleveland for day service form New York (9:30 PM arrival westbound).  You would have to carve out a new midday slot eastbound between the LSL and the Maple Leaf; either that or use the current 284 schedule and accept a 4:00 Cleveland departure and call the LSL's time good enough. I'm not really sure what the ridership across New York would do if you swapped the mid morning train into a midday train, and if there was a loss whether the traffic from Cleveland would make up for it.  I rather think that it would, but I'm not sure.

 

Then the obvious route west would simply be a new train, using freed-up Horizon equipment after the bi-levels arrive.  Unfortunately, the time change is not in ones favor, particularly if you're trying to run a round trip with one set of equipment. A westbound departure would have to leave Cleveland at 6:30 probably, putting you in Chicago at 12:30, perhaps enough time to make Western connections.  Turn the set quickly for a 4:00 eastbound departure for a Cleveland arrival at midnight.  On paper it would work, but it would fall apart with any delay heading west.   Although, it occurs to me that the Hiawathas aren't getting new bilevels, are they? So perhaps there would still be the flexibility to have a common pool, and the inbound arrival from Cleveland could turn as a late day Hiawatha round trip, then a morning round trip the next day before running back east.  So a two day cycle.

 

Obviously they would need funding.  Would New York State be willing to pay for a train west to Cleveland?  Presumably there would be more traffic with Cleveland as the endpoint, so if the operating cost didn't change substantially one would think the state might come out ahead.  A Chicago train would be harder.  The only way I can really think of it working would if a train was funded by local communities, which is not entirely implausible; it happens on the Hoosier State, but seems improbable.

 

In my dreams, I would supplement this with a train running NYP-ALB-BUF-CLE-TOL-DET-CHI.  Westbound an NYP departure at 9:00, Albany at 11:45, Buffalo at 4:45, Cleveland at 8:15, Toledo at 10:45, Detroit/Dearborn at 12:00 and Chicago at 4:00.  Eastbound, leave Chicago at 11:00, Detroit/Dearborn at 5:00, Toledo at 6:30, Cleveland at 9:00, Buffalo at 12:30, Albany at 6:30 (extended stop at Albany for a more reasonable detraining time and avoiding rush hour into Penn Station) and New York at 9:15.  That covers both Northeast-Michigan and overnight service to Ohio.  


Go on, raise the flag, I got stars in my eyes...I'm in love with her and I won't apologize.


#4 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 10:26 PM

Could I use some of your proposals to talk to some people in the Toledo Area who are in charge of the transportation there?

 

You're probably best off giving them AAO's proposals (http://allaboardohio...passenger-rail/) if they don't know them already.


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#5 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 10:51 PM

Could I use some of your proposals to talk to some people in the Toledo Area who are in charge of the transportation there?

 

Probably the baby step which I'm sure Toledo is already thinking about is extending a Wolverine train to TOL for connections to the CL/LSL and eliminating the Thruway Bus connection. They could turn the 354 at DET to go south to TOL and originate the 353 at TOL.


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#6 neroden

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 10:52 PM

I actually really like your proposed Cardinal schedule. It would be an excellent schedule for a daily Cardinal. Having it separate from the Hoosier State is fine by me because there should be two trains a day from Chicago to Indianapolis.

The reason this schedule was a non-starter for decades was Senator Byrd (D ) of West Virginia, the main champion of the Cardinal, who managed the train solely for the benefit of West Virginia. He is now gone. Joe Manchin is a good guy who supports Amtrak but he doesn't have the massive seniority and power which Byrd did. WV's other senator is now Shelley Capito ( R) who is hostile to Amtrak, replacing Jay Rockefeller (D ) who was an Amtrak supporter.

By all accounts (such as my acquaintance DP Lubic) the state government of West Virginia is being utterly unhelpful when it comes to rail service. And West Virginia's population is crashing. It makes sense for WV to be the state which gets the nighttime travel, while the states with more population and more political support get the daytime travel this isn't supposed to be a tourist train.

Edited by neroden, 28 January 2016 - 10:55 PM.

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#7 neroden

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Posted 28 January 2016 - 10:59 PM

Could I use some of your proposals to talk to some people in the Toledo Area who are in charge of the transportation there?


If you're going to talk to people in charge of transportation in Toledo, the thing to push for is the extension of one Chicago-Dearborn Wolverine to Toledo, instead of to Pontiac. This provides a day-train service from Toledo to much of Michigan (and vice versa!) -- and it provides a more reliable service to Chicago, at better hours, than the LSL and CL do.

This would also allow for connections from Michigan to the LSL & CL (this is easy, since the westbound LSL and CL arrive Toledo in early morning and the eastbound LSL and CL depart Toledo in late evening). Done right -- with a shuttle bus or something -- people laying over between trains could have time to run aruond downtown Toledo.

It would be of great benefit to Toledo and of great benefit to Michigan. Toledo transportation folks should really be talking to Michigan DOT about this.

Michigan DOT is also considering a Grand Rapids-Lansing-Ann Arbor-Dearborn-(Detroit?) train. Toledo officials *need* to start talking to them to convince them to make that train connect to Toledo -- even if it requires some money from Toledo (again, connecting to the LSL and CL to the east coast). This would be a very valuable train connection for Toledo, though even more valuable for people going to and Michigan.

I guess what I'm saying is that Toledo transportation officials should be actively talking to Michigan DOT to incorporate Toledo into the Michigan rail plans. For Toledo, this would be the best thing they could do for their intercity rail service.

Edited by neroden, 28 January 2016 - 11:04 PM.

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#8 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 08:12 AM

If Amtrak eventually got to adding the STL through cars as they floated the idea in the PRIIA then if a train could leave IND around noon ET and arrive in STL by around 6pm CT (7 hrs counting the time change), Cardinal passengers east of IND could then transfer in STL to the TE (8pm departure). The return window would be around 8am CT to around 4pm ET (also 7 hr). So CIN would be able leave 6 hr later and arrive in Texas at the same time they would with the current Cardinal/TE changing in CHI. A WAS-Texas passenger could leave one hour later to arrive in Texas at the same time.


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#9 districtRich

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 09:29 AM

I would be against those times for the Capitol Limited or Cardinal.  It would ruin transfer opportunities in Chicago between western trains and the Capitol Limited or Cardinal and require an overnight each way.  To me, the Capitol Limited is a quick overnight train from DC to access the plentiful routes from Chicago.  The Cardinal is definitely more of a scenic route since it takes 24 hours from DC, so I wouldn't be as opposed to changing that one since I'd rather take the Capitol Limited anyway.


Acela (6)  California Zephyr (1)  Capitol Limited (7)  Cardinal (1)  Coast Starlight (1)  Empire Builder (1) • Northeast Regional (20+)  Silver Meteor (2) • Texas Eagle (2)  Wolverine (2)

 


#10 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 09:48 AM

I would be against those times for the Capitol Limited or Cardinal.  It would ruin transfer opportunities in Chicago between western trains and the Capitol Limited or Cardinal and require an overnight each way.  To me, the Capitol Limited is a quick overnight train from DC to access the plentiful routes from Chicago.  The Cardinal is definitely more of a scenic route since it takes 24 hours from DC, so I wouldn't be as opposed to changing that one since I'd rather take the Capitol Limited anyway.

 

The only way I would switch the CL is if there was a CHI-Keystone train in its place so passengers in WAS (and BAL) could take a train to PHL to get to CHI in the morning or to transfer to the west. I doubt that would change your opinion about the CL but I would hope that make it less objectionable. In the old BL days they did use to have through cars to WAS. Maybe Amtrak could do that so that would be your direct train leaving WAS in the afternoon (although quite a bit earlier) and arriving in CHI in the morning.


Edited by Philly Amtrak Fan, 29 January 2016 - 09:58 AM.

Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#11 districtRich

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 10:06 AM

 

I would be against those times for the Capitol Limited or Cardinal.  It would ruin transfer opportunities in Chicago between western trains and the Capitol Limited or Cardinal and require an overnight each way.  To me, the Capitol Limited is a quick overnight train from DC to access the plentiful routes from Chicago.  The Cardinal is definitely more of a scenic route since it takes 24 hours from DC, so I wouldn't be as opposed to changing that one since I'd rather take the Capitol Limited anyway.

 

The only way I would switch the CL is if there was a CHI-Keystone train in its place so passengers in WAS (and BAL) could take a train to PHL to get to CHI in the morning or to transfer to the west. I doubt that would change your opinion about the CL but I would hope that make it less objectionable. In the old BL days they did use to have through cars to WAS. Maybe Amtrak could do that so that would be your direct train leaving WAS in the afternoon (although quite a bit earlier) and arriving in CHI in the morning.

 

 

But currently the train between PHL and PGH doesn't have sleepers and as far I I know there aren't any extra sleepers to go around, right?  Is this only feasible if there are more sleepers?  Also it adds about 4 hours to the trip from WAS to CHI to connect through PHL which is bad and also does not allow checked luggage very easily to Chicago since that can't be taken on the Northeast Regionals or Acelas except for that one overnight Regional along the corridor.  Unless we are adding additional trains, changing the schedules for current trains is just going to involve people fighting each other to see who deserves the more convenient train schedule.


Acela (6)  California Zephyr (1)  Capitol Limited (7)  Cardinal (1)  Coast Starlight (1)  Empire Builder (1) • Northeast Regional (20+)  Silver Meteor (2) • Texas Eagle (2)  Wolverine (2)

 


#12 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 10:33 AM

Any of these proposals would require new sleepers.

 

To help CLE/TOL and give a direct CHI-PHL train, it kind of comes down roughly to two of AAO's proposals, their Three Rivers or their extended Pennsylvanian.

 

http://allaboardohio...passenger-rail/

 

The TR schedule allows better times in Ohio while the Pennsylvanian would allow for transfers.

 

One reason I would rather use the Pennsylvanian and shift the CL as opposed to just doing the TR is that the only new train miles would be the second PGH-CHI. If you did the TR, you would need an all new train NYP-CHI. I certainly would be happy with the TR and keep the CL as is but shifting the CL and extending the Pennsylvanian would require fewer new train miles. If PA then funds a second Pennsylvanian (which they are talking about) or if Amtrak takes over funding for the extended Pennsylvanian, then the second PGH-NYP would have better times than the overnight hours of the TR.

 

I certainly understand your concern and would want to keep CHI-WAS as desirable as it is now. If Amtrak could do the through cars to the Pennsylvanian (Broadway Limited), baggage would not be an issue (it would just be a few hours longer). Another idea would be to allow passengers to travel from WAS to PHL on one of the trains with baggage capabilities. Remember the CL would still run and it would allow WAS-CLE and WAS-TOL and not arrive in those cities in the middle of the night.


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#13 maxbuskirk

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 02:46 PM

I strongly vote for truncating the Cardinal to Washington DC.

 

Train 50

 

Depart Chicago 10:30 pm.

Indianapolis 4:35/4:44 am (overnight stop)

Cincinnati 8:02/8:12 am

Charlottesville 7:55/8:04 pm (new river gorge is in daylight)

Arrive Washington 11:04 pm. (Maybe depart Chicago earlier, but that would put Cincinnati with service at 7 am or earlier, which isn't the best).

 

Don't have to worry about getting to new york at 2am.

Hoosier State would run on a more realistic schedule, and daily instead in tandem with the Cardinal, to provide Indianapolis with daily service.

I hope people like it, I'm a HUGE fan of the Cardinal. Thanks for reading!


I have ridden Cascades #516 (SEA-STW), Coast Starlight #14 (LAX-SLO), Southwest Chief #4 (LAX-CHI), Cardinal #50 (CHI-NYP), Northeast Regional #85 (NYP-WAS), Capitol Limited #30 (HFY-WAS), Coast Starlight #14 (LAX-PDX), and many Pacific Surfliners with Amtrak. I have seen, including the previous, California Zephyr #5 at SAC (with luck), what I guess to be Crescent #19 (at WAS) and Silver Meteor #97 (at WAS), and Empire Builder #28 at PDX. I have also ridden the Hokutosei in Japan, Ueno - Sapporo (now discontinued).


#14 Bob Dylan

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 02:52 PM

That's a very good Schedule for the Card maxbuskirk but Amtrak doesn't want to lose the NYP-WAS passengers from this train.

Others have suggested that the Card should run STL-NYP with a better calling time for Cinci as you propose but slots into/out of NYP are a problem.
 
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#15 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 06:14 PM

These are my updated plans.

 

Both add

 

Direct CHI-Keystone train (Liberty Limited) with through cars PHL-WAS

Michigan-NEC service

3C extension

Daily Cardinal with shifted schedules to better serve IND/CIN

Daily Hoosier State in current Cardinal/Hoosier State slot

2nd NYP-PGH frequency

 

Plan A:

Liberty Limited is a brand new train traveling through Michigan

3C extension connects to Liberty Limited at CLE

Capitol Limited stays same

 

Plan B:

Liberty Limited is extension of current Pennsylvanian. Train travels to CHI via South Bend.

Capitol Limited is shifted and travels through Michigan

3C extension connects to Capitol Limited in CLE

New Pennsylvanian

 

I am not hinting either plan is better overall but merely showing the possibilities of each. In Plan A, WAS gets the "transfer train" while PHL/Eastern PA gets the "Ohio train" while in Plan B PHL/WAS gets the "transfer train" while WAS gets the "Ohio train" (although they would have direct access on the "transfer train" via PHL). In Plan A, I might still wish to pursue the through cars NYP-PGH to the CL.

 

 


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#16 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 06:19 PM

I strongly vote for truncating the Cardinal to Washington DC.

 

Train 50

 

Depart Chicago 10:30 pm.

Indianapolis 4:35/4:44 am (overnight stop)

Cincinnati 8:02/8:12 am

Charlottesville 7:55/8:04 pm (new river gorge is in daylight)

Arrive Washington 11:04 pm. (Maybe depart Chicago earlier, but that would put Cincinnati with service at 7 am or earlier, which isn't the best).

 

Don't have to worry about getting to new york at 2am.

Hoosier State would run on a more realistic schedule, and daily instead in tandem with the Cardinal, to provide Indianapolis with daily service.

I hope people like it, I'm a HUGE fan of the Cardinal. Thanks for reading!

 

If it frees up Viewliners for some new CHI-Keystone route or the Pennsylvanian-CL through cars (since this train could then use Superliners), I'd be in favor of it.

 

Other possibilities to truncate in WAS/use Superliners to free up a Viewliner set would be the Silver Star (anyone north of WAS can use the SM) or Palmetto IF it is extended to Florida (so it can run WAS-Florida instead of NYP-Savannah).


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#17 west point

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 07:12 PM

A big "IF".  If all present  Superliner western trains continue then until congress appropriates more money earmarked for Superliners you cannot expect any changes for Superliner trains.  Now when some replacement V-2 coaches are built then some of these trips might happen.

A big but.  For the foreseeable future most any additional money will go for NEC critical projects unless  specifically earmarked.



#18 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 29 January 2016 - 07:14 PM

A big "IF".  If all present  Superliner western trains continue then until congress appropriates more money earmarked for Superliners you cannot expect any changes for Superliner trains.  Now when some replacement V-2 coaches are built then some of these trips might happen.

A big but.  For the foreseeable future most any additional money will go for NEC critical projects unless  specifically earmarked.

 

So we don't have spare Superliners? My bad. I guess we have to wait for the V-2's then.


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
 


#19 maxbuskirk

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 02:14 AM

So basically, you're all saying that the new river gorge doesn't matter for the Cardinal. OK. With the following schedules (both of them), a daily Hoosier State is basically required to have any sort of useful corridor train between Chicago and Indianapolis. HIN = Hinton, WV, and I put it here to show the boundaries of the New River Gorge (I know the gorge everyone likes is from Montgomery, WV to Hinton, but Huntington is close enough for the other end)

 

My schedule for 50/51 without NYC, New River Gorge in daylight, connection with west-coast trains totally work, but schedules to NYC don't at all (so I didn't put it in):

 

50                                                51

CHI 9:45P                                    WAS 8:15A

IND 3:50A/3:59A                          CVS 10:58A/11:07A

CIN 7:17A/7:27A                          HIN 3:21P

HUN 11:09A/11:16A                    HUN 6:59P/7:06P

HIN 2:34P                                    CIN 10:46P/10:56P (a little late, but better than 1:30 am)

CVS 7:10P/7:19P                         IND 2:30A/3:15A

WAS 10:19P                                CHI 7:20A

 

New Schedule with New York, and New River Gorge during the night (just flip AM & PM and add New York) West-coast connections are ruined, but I'm not going to worry about that here:

 

50                                                51

CHI 9:45A                                    NYP 4:00P

IND 3:50P/3:59P                          WAS 8:15P

CIN 7:17P/7:27P                          CVS 10:58P/11:07P

HUN 11:09P/11:16P                    HIN 3:21A

HIN 2:34A                                    HUN 6:59A/7:06A

CVS 7:10A/7:19A                         CIN 10:46A/10:56A

WAS 10:19A                                IND 2:30P/3:15P

NYP 1:56P                                   CHI 7:20P

 

New York gets the Cardinal, Cincinnati gets optimal departure times, and Indianapolis gets daylight LD service, but Huntington and Charlottesville suffer a little from this, and the New River Gorge is during the night. If we somehow don't care about Huntington, then the schedule posted above by Philly Amtrak Fan would definitely work better.

 

But IMO, for long-distance passengers going through from west to east (or vice versa), they would take the Cardinal probably for the New River Gorge only, or they actually live along the Cardinal route. Though the River Gorge is in the night, I suppose the Ohio River is in daylight, but it's less isolated, you don't get consistent views of the river, and when you're right close to the river bank, the trees are in the way a lot of the time. But if there's something magically charming about the Cardinal that isn't the New River Gorge that I missed, then I suppose this schedule is pretty good. Thanks for reading! 


Edited by maxbuskirk, 30 January 2016 - 02:14 AM.

I have ridden Cascades #516 (SEA-STW), Coast Starlight #14 (LAX-SLO), Southwest Chief #4 (LAX-CHI), Cardinal #50 (CHI-NYP), Northeast Regional #85 (NYP-WAS), Capitol Limited #30 (HFY-WAS), Coast Starlight #14 (LAX-PDX), and many Pacific Surfliners with Amtrak. I have seen, including the previous, California Zephyr #5 at SAC (with luck), what I guess to be Crescent #19 (at WAS) and Silver Meteor #97 (at WAS), and Empire Builder #28 at PDX. I have also ridden the Hokutosei in Japan, Ueno - Sapporo (now discontinued).


#20 Anderson

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Posted 30 January 2016 - 04:05 AM

One thing about the Cardinal at present is that it gets a non-trivial share of ridership CVS-NYP (and the like) since it's a "reverse flow" train.  It's not unlike the Shoreliner for Richmond/Hampton Roads in this respect.  I hate to be the one to say it, but Virginia is by far more hospitable to passenger rail than Ohio or Indiana.

 

With that being said, I don't think that IN, Iowa Pacific, or really anybody would object too horridly if the Hoosier State went daily and the Cardinal operated on a separate schedule.  The wacky service situation there just isn't terribly sustainable.


Capitol Limited (7), CA Zephyr (4) Lake Shore Limited (1), Acela (2), NE Regional (2), Sliver Meteor (4)

Upcoming: Silver Meteor (1), Lake Shore Limited (1), SW Chief (2), MO River Runner (1), Texas Eagle (1)

Possibly Upcoming: Either Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (2) or Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (1)




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