10 Minute boarding rule?

This is the first time I've ever encountered this problem. I had a ticket scheduled for an 8:15 departing train from KC Union Station and didn't arrive until 8:10 and wasn't allowed to board because apparently they close the doors to the train at 8:05 and no further boarding is allowed. I was forced to purchase a higher fare ticket for a train at 4 pm (well actually 3:50 since that's when they close the doors). I didn't know Amtrak was starting to follow airline boarding protocols. Does this policy exist anywhere else and does anyone think it serves any useful purpose other than to create unnecessary transportation problems for it customers? I take the train from STL & Boston often times and I just walk to the platform and get on sometimes just a few minutes before departure. I've never heard or encountered such an inane pointless policy until today.

Not that I am aware of. This sounds like someone on a power trip.

Kansas City Station - Ticket Sales and Boarding Gates Close EarlierFor your safety and security, the following changes have been made to the ticket sales and boarding procedures at Kansas City Station:

• Boarding gates will close five minutes before train departures.
• Ticket sales will end 10 minutes before departure times.

Found this on the Amtrak website under "Station Advisories". Several stations implemented the same policy sometime in 2015 I believe for safety and security reasons as stated. Probably also helps with OTP numbers at the busier locations.

Some other stations (including CHI and WAS) also close the boarding gates a short time prior to departure.

Well the "boarding gate" (i.e., glass doors leading out to the platform which were blocked off with trash cans placed in front of it) was closed 10 minutes, not 5 minutes before scheduled departure according to the ticket agent. The agent also said the doors to the train close 10 minutes before the scheduled departure and no further boarding is allowed. I'm not sure what protocol they are following but, again, does this serve any meaningful purpose?

Another huge inconsistency with Amtrak... at New York Penn, they don't even announce the boarding until about 10 minutes prior to departure.

Meaningful purpose - SECURITY

At NYP, the reason the track number is not announced is two fold:

1) They do not know what track the train will be put on (which platform will be open) as there are 2 commuter railroads besides Amtrak using those same tracks, and they have trains coming and going all the time, and

2) Since the platforms are so narrow, they try to let the hundreds of passengers detaining exit before the hundreds of passengers boarding get on.

The LD trains board earlier than the 10 minutes.

Oh I think they know on which track a particular train will be arriving. Redcaps get that info in advance, don't they?

Palmetto said:

Oh I think they know on which track a particular train will be arriving. Redcaps get that info in advance, don't they?

Click to expand...

There have been several times I've been waiting in front a monitor, and even though a manager can tell me my train is in one of the tunnels, that no track info has been released. Then there have been mornings I see my train's track number, and I head down to track level and wait 10-15 minutes for my train. Granted, that is also at 4am when there's just empty Acelas on the track level, so half the station is empty.

Tennessee Traveler said:

Meaningful purpose - SECURITY

Click to expand...

How does closing the doors 10 minutes early help with security?

If you feel that you were treated contrary to the published info, then you should contact Amtrak and ask for a refund of your earlier ticket.

"Security" is weird in the USA... It always seems to boil down to treating folk like kids. Even though your train is there, and is not leaving for 5 or 10 minutes, our rules say, etc, etc.

We don't want passengers running after a moving train, but this is quite different to deliberatly blocking access when there is plenty of time to board.

Get there extra early and stand in line where you are told to seems to be the way to be secure?

Ed.

Meaningful purpose = security??? You mean somehow denying boarding to the arrivals in the last 10 minutes is somehow going to improve security? Exactly how would that policy serve security in any possible remote way? Is KC at the cutting edge of this new security concept (i.e. they stumbled onto the idea that bad guys always tend to run late?). Sounds like just a made up reason to try and justify a pointless rule that doesn't serve any purpose other than just to create a rule for the sake of creating a rule.

If you were at the gate, ticket in hand, 10 minutes prior to departure, and the staff denied you boarding because of it, they were breaking the posted rules. If this was the case, I would call into Amtrak and, at minimum, ask for a refund of the difference in fare.

However, the initial post makes it sound like you actually arrived 5 minutes prior to departure. In that case, Amtrak closes the gates at many stations (including Kansas City) 5 minutes prior to departure. It's possible they said they closed them five minutes ago to try and avoid an argument if a passenger was told they just closed the gates. I'm not sold that lying to a passenger is a good policy in any case, but if the gate was closed 5 minutes prior to boarding, I don't think it's fair to ask for compensation.

The reason for closing the gates 5 minutes prior to departure is mainly so that people don't run to their train and potentially slip and fall. They can also ensure the platform is clear before departure. I'm not sold that it's completely necessary (most if not all commuter railroads have the gates open until departure ) but it is listed on the website as such.

jebr said:

If you were at the gate, ticket in hand, 10 minutes prior to departure, and the staff denied you boarding because of it, they were breaking the posted rules. If this was the case, I would call into Amtrak and, at minimum, ask for a refund of the difference in fare.

However, the initial post makes it sound like you actually arrived 5 minutes prior to departure. In that case, Amtrak closes the gates at many stations (including Kansas City) 5 minutes prior to departure. It's possible they said they closed them five minutes ago to try and avoid an argument if a passenger was told they just closed the gates. I'm not sold that lying to a passenger is a good policy in any case, but if the gate was closed 5 minutes prior to boarding, I don't think it's fair to ask for compensation.

The reason for closing the gates 5 minutes prior to departure is mainly so that people don't run to their train and potentially slip and fall. They can also ensure the platform is clear before departure. I'm not sold that it's completely necessary (most if not all commuter railroads have the gates open until departure ) but it is listed on the website as such.

Click to expand...

They said they arrived at 8:10 for an 8:15 departure. So they did not break the posted rules. When the gate is clear they notify the crew. The crew makes sure the platform is clear then closes the train doors. At that point when they have given the gate the ushers are not going to let anyone thru the door. That frustrates late passengers because they see the train has not departed and want to try and jump on it but they don't realize the doors have been closed. From what I have seen the ushers are pretty liberal about closing the gate, that is if they see someone approaching the gate they won't close it on them at the exact time. So I doubt the other person was even close to the five minutes.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I had taken a cab and was dropped off directly in front of Union Station in KC if anyone is familiar with it's layout. I remember looking at my cell phone as soon the cabbie was paid & my cell phone said 8:07 and I assumed I was going to be fine. I made a beeline through the station which is really not that big in comparison to some other larger big city stations. The waiting area was empty and the that is when I discovered the glass doors to the platform were locked when I tried to open one (reaching past the trash cans placed in front of them). At that time it could not have been any later that 8:10. Discovering that they were closed that is when I turned around to the the ticket counter and approached it and the ticket agent started telling me they are locked 10 minutes prior to departure. I started arguing with him about it because I had never encountered this policy before and I knew the train was sitting right out there with another 5 minutes or so before it had to leave. I knew I wouldn't have had any trouble making if if allowed to go forward and it just seemed like a senseless situation. He got defensive when I pointed out how idiotic their "policy" was and that's when he said it didn't matter anyway because the train crew had closed the doors 10 minutes prior anyway to the scheduled 8:15 departure and it would have been impossible to board which I kind of thought might have been BS. I think he locked the doors earlier than he should have and then he just wanted to come up with excuses for it. I also pointed out to him they don't have this policy in other cities where I use Amtrak, STL & Boston for example (South Station) and he argued with me that they do have this policy in STL. I know I have boarded the Chicago train in STL at least several times before with just a couple minutes to spare the past few years and I've never run into anything like this before. Anyway, that's what happened.

Jeff said:

This is the first time I've ever encountered this problem. I had a ticket scheduled for an 8:15 departing train from KC Union Station and didn't arrive until 8:10 and wasn't allowed to board because apparently they close the doors to the train at 8:05 and no further boarding is allowed. I was forced to purchase a higher fare ticket for a train at 4 pm (well actually 3:50 since that's when they close the doors). I didn't know Amtrak was starting to follow airline boarding protocols. Does this policy exist anywhere else and does anyone think it serves any useful purpose other than to create unnecessary transportation problems for it customers? I take the train from STL & Boston often times and I just walk to the platform and get on sometimes just a few minutes before departure. I've never heard or encountered such an inane pointless policy until today.

Click to expand...

It sounds as if you often get there just before departure.

You may want to get there earlier?

https://www.amtrak.com/boarding

Jeff said:

I started arguing with him about it because I had never encountered this policy before and I knew the train was sitting right out there with another 5 minutes or so before it had to leave. I knew I wouldn't have had any trouble making if if allowed to go forward and it just seemed like a senseless situation.

Click to expand...

It is senseless that you got there late. Despite what you claim the station person said or your made up speculation when they closed the door, you arrived at 8:10 or probably later for an 8:15 train. I have seen that many times. Passengers see the train waiting for the signal to change in their favor after the doors have been closed and platform has been cleared,and passengers think they would have no trouble making it if allowed to go forward cause the train has not moved yet. That is why they close the gate now at some stations five minutes early. People were trying to grab onto moving trains, falling on the platform running for trains, delaying trains, etc.

There is a certain percentage of people who arrive at the last minute and its never their fault in their own mind. I have seen passengers screaming at the station people who arrive after the schedualed departure time. Some of them even think the train left early. LOL

Hal said:

It is senseless that you got there late. Despite what you claim the station person said or your made up speculation when they closed the door, you arrived at 8:10 or probably later for an 8:15 train. I have seen that many times. Passengers see the train waiting for the signal to change in their favor after the doors have been closed and platform has been cleared,and passengers think they would have no trouble making it if allowed to go forward cause the train has not moved yet. That is why they close the gate now at some stations five minutes early. People were trying to grab onto moving trains, falling on the platform running for trains, delaying trains, etc.

Click to expand...

It's not really senseless...

I can think of twice this year alone that I arrived at a train station (Amtrak Lancaster and Metra Schaumburg) within 5 minutes of the departure.

In the case of the Metra Train, I had to buy my ticket in the station before boarding. Alot can be accomplished in 5 minutes.

I'm not saying I recommend it, in both of those situations there was another train in an hour that I could have taken easily... but in both cases I made the train. But would not have if some 5 minute rule existed at those stations.

I've only been through Kansas City's Station once, but I do recall it has a very strange layout with a corridor and stairs involved in order to get to the platforms I think... So I can kinda see the 5 minute rule... but I totally understand the OP's frustration.

VentureForth said:

How does closing the doors 10 minutes early help with security?

Click to expand...

If he had any clue what he was talking about he would have come up with something more meaningful than a single capitalized word parroted as a retort. You'd think people would be embarrassed to openly expose their lack of critical thinking in such an obvious manner.

caravanman said:

"Security" is weird in the USA... It always seems to boil down to treating folk like kids. Even though your train is there, and is not leaving for 5 or 10 minutes, our rules say, etc, etc. We don't want passengers running after a moving train, but this is quite different to deliberatly blocking access when there is plenty of time to board. Get there extra early and stand in line where you are told to seems to be the way to be secure?

Click to expand...

To be fair this seems to mainly be an Amtrak issue. Other carriers at the same stations aren't this silly about it. Even other Amtrak stations are generally far more easy going. But if you happen to be boarding an Amtrak train at a station large enough to have a middle manager somewhere they seem to go out of their way to make the process as tedious and bureaucratic as possible.

Hal said:

It is senseless that you got there late. Despite what you claim the station person said or your made up speculation when they closed the door, you arrived at 8:10 or probably later for an 8:15 train. I have seen that many times. Passengers see the train waiting for the signal to change in their favor after the doors have been closed and platform has been cleared,and passengers think they would have no trouble making it if allowed to go forward cause the train has not moved yet. That is why they close the gate now at some stations five minutes early. People were trying to grab onto moving trains, falling on the platform running for trains, delaying trains, etc.

Click to expand...

I actually see last minute boarding as a positive aspect of train travel. In fact it works just fine where I live. If anything Amtrak should be making the boarding process as easy and painless as possible and advertising it as a bonus over airline travel. If Amtrak ran their trains like clockwork I might understand the desire to keep anyone from delaying the train, but we all know that's not really true. That being the case it seems better for Amtrak to earn some goodwill by being a bit more lenient and a bit less power hungry. But maybe that's just me.

In Europe they don't have that issue. In Europe you just walk up to the train anytime before departure as long as it's there of course. München It is normally fifteen minutes prior to departure. And you can get on any car and sit where you like. Part of that probably has to do with our lawsuit culture. I find it to be an interesting system. And if the door is closed you open it yourself.

So to update I took the 4pm train and is this what I observed. Basically a long queue forms in front of the glass door gate from whenever the first person gets there I guess and precisely at 3:45 they announce boarding and the long queue files past the glass door and works their way down a sidewalk and stairs to the platform. I was near the end of the queue and it probably took 3-5 minutes for everyone to get through the glass doors. At some point I guess the glass door gate got locked behind me. I boarded the train, the train doors stayed open until the train pulled away exactly on time at 4pm and I heard the train car doors pulled closed. I know approximately what time I got there that morning, I don't need someone who wasn't their to try and tell me different. I left the cab right of front of the station entrance at 8:07. It couldn't have taken more than two minutes to walk down the corridor to the glass doors which were already closed with trash cans in front of them and no one around which tells me when they got locked it had to have been a couple minutes before I arrived. In fact the ticket agent confirmed that when he said the doors get locked 10 minutes departure but that's a contradiction of their stated policy of 5 minutes so in their in the wrong to be doing that. It also doesn't help that he gave me some unneeded BS that the train conductors had closed the train doors 10 minutes before departure. This guy must think he's working for an airline. Anyway, I'm going to file an official complaint about his conduct to Amtrak, not only is he not following their own stated policy he flat out lies to me about the conductor's closing the train doors. If they had followed their stated policy I'm confident I would have made the 8:15 am train this morning.

We all should complain if we have a genuine grievance. It does sound as if the gates were closed too early. I hope Jeff will let us know how Amtrak responds to his complaint.

Ed.

caravanman said:

We all should complain if we have a genuine grievance. It does sound as if the gates were closed too early. I hope Jeff will let us know how Amtrak responds to his complaint.

Ed.

Click to expand...

It doesn't sound like it to me. He was there at 8:10 when they were supposed to be closed. So it is his own fault. Also note the station was empty. So he was the only one. The rest he is making up. Whether we agree with the five minute rule or not the door was supposed to be closed. He can't admit he screwed up. I'd say he is spoiled.

He can write and complain but they are going to know it's hogwash.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Devil said:

I actually see last minute boarding as a positive aspect of train travel. In fact it works just fine where I live. If anything Amtrak should be making the boarding process as easy and painless as possible and advertising it as a bonus over airline travel. If Amtrak ran their trains like clockwork I might understand the desire to keep anyone from delaying the train, but we all know that's not really true. That being the case it seems better for Amtrak to earn some goodwill by being a bit more lenient and a bit less power hungry. But maybe that's just me.

Click to expand...

Never been to Kansas City but I have seen the boarding along the NEC and they have always been lenient. Washington DC closes the gate at two minutes. And they don't close it on that minute if they see someone coming. Sometimes they even call the crew and ask if they can send someone out after they have given the gate.
Another thing to mention is that if the train is delayed the dispatcher is going to want to know why. If it is because the gate was closed late then they put it on the station. That station person is going to be asked about it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk