HBG 43 - PGH / 29 - CHI Questions

Hello everyone, hope to get some help from fellow board members as it has been years since taking Amtrak.

2nd. week of Feb 2016, I will be going on a month long vacation With stops in Chicago all the way up into Wisconsin.

Departing from Harrisburg PA. on the 43 w/ a Business seat. I am a Navy Vet and walk with a cain, I am taking 1-28" suitcase and 1- Laptop style Backpack.

There is no checked luggage at HBG station, so I will be bringing my suitcase on board.

Is there Space for the luggage to be stored in the Business class luggage closet? (If there is one) And will they give me any grief at either the station or on-board the train? I have read all the baggage rules on the Amtrak website, but want to know from people who have departed from HBG on this train.

What is the consist and order for the Pennsylvania 43 during February? Is the train busy or full? Is Business Class packed or lightly occupied?

At PGH, it states the station does not have self storage lockers, to store Items during layovers, is there any alternatives to store luggage, so that one can go out to get some food and drink during the 4 hour layover??

From PGH I am taking the 29 CapLmtd to Union Station Chicago Ill, I have a reserved lower level seat, due to my legs and using a cain to walk. should i check my suitcase or is there space in the Coach train to keep it in?

Also how busy is this train route in Feb. ????

TYIA

Peter

The luggage will fit in the overhead rack (on both trains). I don't know if there's a separate non-overhead storage rack (some cars have them, some don't), but I've found people are always very helpful about lifting suitcases.

Pittsburgh... is a very boring place to wait. I believe are no alternatives to store luggage. There is nowhere nearby to go to get food and drink, either. It's not good.

Both trains are typically half-empty in February; it's the least busy month of the entire year. But busier around Valentine's Day.

I have found the staff on the Pennsylvanian to be helpful and will assist in getting your bag in the overhead luggage storage in the bc car. I believe you can have the agent in PGH take care of your bag for a fee until the Capitol Ltd 29 arrives. If you do not need the larger bag for items, I would check the bag to Chicago from PGH. The lower level coach seats have a storage area on that level to place any bags. The restrooms downstairs are also convenient for those with mobility issues.

It is true that at that time of night PGH does not offer many dining possibilities. There are some pizza places nearby but not sure if they might deliver one to the station for you so you would not need to walk outside, especially in February.

The CL currently has a limited consist and will probably remain so throughout the winter months. There is no separate baggage car but a bag-coach and the cafe menu is served out from the combined cafe-CCC diner. We had a SSL on our train yesterday which is nice, but there have been some trips where the lounge car was removed as well in the winter. Only one locomotive is currently pulling this short consist train.

I just read the PRIIA again for the proposed CL-Pennsylvanian through cars.

https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/152/943/PRIIA-210-CapitolLimited-PIP.pdf

Even though it would be a one seat ride, the wait time in PGH is going to be longer. In reality, through cars or not the westbound Pennsylvanian should be switched back two hours or even one hour to reduce the layover in PGH. Amtrak said "Although maintaining the current Pennsylvanian schedule results in longer dwell times at Pittsburgh for the through New York-Chicago cars, preserving the current schedule times between Pittsburgh and New York is important because the Pennsylvanian is a corridor service that serves local markets between these points."

Well half of the Pennsylvanian is NYP-HAR so you can always switch the slot of one of those trains and the 43. The 609/655 leaves at 12:55pm/1:05pm and arrives HAR at 4:35pm. Switch that train to the Pennsylvanian schedule and have the 43 leave NYP at 12:55pm, PHL at 2:45pm, HAR at 4:35pm, and arrival in PGH around 10:15pm. Then the schedule between NYP and HAR would hardly be noticed. The western portion HAR-PGH would have service two hours later. I don't think that's a big deal and it would cut the layover in PGH in half. In addition, the Greyhound bus for Columbus, Dayton, and Indianapolis doesn't leave PGH until 3:40am. You're already going to have a hard time getting people to wait from the CL. Who would wait from 8:05pm to 3:40am? I think 8:05 to 11:59 or 12:20 is bad. 3:40am? I'd rather get a hotel and take the first bus out of PGH in the morning.

I don't see why Amtrak is adamant about the Pennsylvanian schedule. Sure you wouldn't have to leave the train but four hours in the train (especially if they have to shut the power down for a significant amount of time) isn't much better than waiting in the station. Is the near six hour layover in SAS for the TE pleasant even though you don't have to change trains? I doubt it. Amtrak does plan to cut that delay down.

Maybe another possibility is the CL leaving WAS and arriving in PGH an hour or two earlier. In the current CL schedule, they list the 98 (SM) northbound and not the 92 (SS) which makes me believe they don't guarantee the SS-CL connection. If they don't, leaving WAS at 3:05pm and arriving/leaving PGH at 11:20pm (PRIIA proposes 12:20am) would improve things from a PGH standpoint and arrive in CHI earlier.

Through cars or not, I see this as a problem.

As for the through cars, you can say they are waiting for the new sleepers. I don't see why they don't temporarily just use coach cars for the through car portion and add the sleepers when they become available? I believe that's what Amtrak did when they did run through cars on the CL in 1996 before making the TR a separate train. In fact, I remember the TR initially had coach only between NYP and CHI as I remember a passenger changed trains from the TR to the CL in PGH to have a sleeper. Any passenger east of PGH can book the Pennsylvanian to PGH and then a CL sleeper between PGH and CHI.

I still hope the long term goal is a separate NYP/PHL/HAR to CHI train, especially if it includes direct service between Michigan and the NEC as AAO recommended (http://freepdfhosting.com/cf26514bc8.pdf). This also opens up several new city pairs (Michigan to NYP, PHL, PGH, CLE among others) They estimated the capital cost to $119 million with an annual operating subsidy of $700,000 a year by extending the Pennsylvanian through CHI via Michigan. It would also get rid of the long layover/Thruway connection during the graveyard shift now. The one fear I have of a new train is it probably would be the first train cut if things go bad like the TR was cut in 2005. If they have the through cars they would have less an incentive to cut them.

For frame of reference, 1996 timetable:

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19960414n&item=0015

TR arrived in PGH 10:00pm, CL left PGH 11:57pm (at that time the CL arrived in PGH at 11:02pm). Of course that was then there were two PGH-NYP trains but PennDOT is talking about a second train so maybe once that gets in Amtrak would be more flexible in moving the connecting/through car to arrive in PGH closer to the CL departure out of PGH.

For the most part, I agree with what you said, especially with changing the schedule of the Pennsylvanian. And I'm all in favor of adding the new train you describe; please convince Congress to fund it. But there are some nits.

Philly Amtrak Fan said:

Sure you wouldn't have to leave the train but four hours in the train (especially if they have to shut the power down for a significant amount of time) isn't much better than waiting in the station. Is the near six hour layover in SAS for the TE pleasant even though you don't have to change trains?

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I would much rather spend the time on the train, even during the power outage, than in the station, especially at Pittsburgh. Once was enough, and that was only two hours, eastbound. In any class of service, I could sleep better (more likely) or entertain myself better than in the station. And, yes, the layover in San Antonio was fine. Again, sleep.

Maybe another possibility is the CL leaving WAS and arriving in PGH an hour or two earlier. In the current CL schedule, they list the 98 (SM) northbound and not the 92 (SS) which makes me believe they don't guarantee the SS-CL connection. If they don't, leaving WAS at 3:05pm and arriving/leaving PGH at 11:20pm (PRIIA proposes 12:20am) would improve things from a PGH standpoint and arrive in CHI earlier.

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Breakfast is a problem with having the Capitol Limited arrive in Chicago even earlier. I would be opposed to having Amtrak omit breakfast, but I do see that as a solution. Absent that, what is the dining car staff supposed to do? Neither starting earlier nor stopping earlier seem like good options.

On the other hand, Amtrak could keep the same arrival time in Chicago while departing Washington somewhat earlier, because adding the through car(s) in Pittsburgh will take some time.

I have made the pennsylvanian to capitol a connection a handful of times.The baggage room will store your luggage until you get back. Although downtown Pittsburgh can be quiet some evenings during one connection I enjoyed the "Proper Brick oven and tap room" which is a nice bar and italian place close by. Also enjoyed a restaurant called "meat and potatoes" last time. their hours vary so you'll just have to check what day of the week you are arriving. If you are more adventurous a short cab ride and back to east carson street and the south side neighborhood would be doable with many good options. Also really recommend seeing a show at Heinz Hall some time in Pittsburgh if you happen to stay a few days some time.this site has some good local info.http://www.visitpittsburgh.com/about-pittsburgh/neighborhoods/

Pennsylvanian is funded by PennDOT. Amtrak cannot unilaterally change its schedule without taking the cost of running that train off PennDOT's back. Amtrak does not appear have either the ability or the willingness at present to add to the cost side of the ledger without having it completely covered by ticket+F&B revenue + subsidy. Such is the sad state of affairs.

jis said:

Pennsylvanian is funded by PennDOT. Amtrak cannot unilaterally change its schedule without taking the cost of running that train off PennDOT's back. Amtrak does not appear have either the ability or the willingness at present to the cost side of the ledger without having it completely covered by ticket+F&B revenue + subsidy. Such is the sad state of affairs.

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Then ask PennDOT for permission to change the schedule. Tell them they may get more passengers if the delay at PGH is reduced.

Philly Amtrak Fan said:

jis said:

Pennsylvanian is funded by PennDOT. Amtrak cannot unilaterally change its schedule without taking the cost of running that train off PennDOT's back. Amtrak does not appear have either the ability or the willingness at present to the cost side of the ledger without having it completely covered by ticket+F&B revenue + subsidy. Such is the sad state of affairs.

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Then ask PennDOT for permission to change the schedule. Tell them they may get more passengers if the delay at PGH is reduced.

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Sounds like something to talk with your state representatives about!

Philly Amtrak Fan said:

jis said:

Pennsylvanian is funded by PennDOT. Amtrak cannot unilaterally change its schedule without taking the cost of running that train off PennDOT's back. Amtrak does not appear have either the ability or the willingness at present to the cost side of the ledger without having it completely covered by ticket+F&B revenue + subsidy. Such is the sad state of affairs.

Click to expand...

Then ask PennDOT for permission to change the schedule. Tell them they may get more passengers if the delay at PGH is reduced.

Click to expand...

Why would PennDOT be concerned about connecting passengers to the CL? The Pennyslvanian is designed for local service to and from points in Pennsylvania.

The answer, of course, is the revival of the Broadway Limited, your favorite topic. Write to your federal representatives. Bud Shuster is a big deal on the committee dealing with Amtrak. He's the guy you need to lobby.

jis said:

Amtrak does not appear have either the ability or the willingness at present to add to the cost side of the ledger without having it completely covered by ticket+F&B revenue + subsidy. Such is the sad state of affairs.

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I'm still trying to figure out why Amtrak hasn't pushed hard for a daily Cardinal, which would change from loss-making to profit-making (before the idiotic and meaningless overhead allocation). Hopefully we're not looking at "Milwaukee Road thinking" where decisions are made based on defective accounting.
On another topic, Mike is correct that Bud Shuster is on the correct committee and has a lot of power on it, and is worth lobbying.

MikefromCrete said:

Philly Amtrak Fan said:

jis said:

Pennsylvanian is funded by PennDOT. Amtrak cannot unilaterally change its schedule without taking the cost of running that train off PennDOT's back. Amtrak does not appear have either the ability or the willingness at present to the cost side of the ledger without having it completely covered by ticket+F&B revenue + subsidy. Such is the sad state of affairs.

Click to expand...

Then ask PennDOT for permission to change the schedule. Tell them they may get more passengers if the delay at PGH is reduced.

Click to expand...

Why would PennDOT be concerned about connecting passengers to the CL? The Pennyslvanian is designed for local service to and from points in Pennsylvania.

The answer, of course, is the revival of the Broadway Limited, your favorite topic. Write to your federal representatives. Bud Shuster is a big deal on the committee dealing with Amtrak. He's the guy you need to lobby.

Click to expand...

Indeed. Connecting passengers at PGH is not the focus of PennDot. Indeed, there is a tight window on the Pennsylvanian if the connecting CL is late.

These are more or less the times Pennsylvania wants, Philly Fan. The reason I say more or less is because you still have to fit into NS's profile. This is why certain trains are timed.

That being said, I like your times, which isn't surprising since it mirrors what I suggested. However, when the times for a second Pennsylvanian are published (and it is being worked on; I submitted my recommendation,) remember, it will be a culmination of the needs and wants of PennDot, NS, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT and to a small extend, LIRR.

There are many considerations.

neroden said:

I'm still trying to figure out why Amtrak hasn't pushed hard for a daily Cardinal, which would change from loss-making to profit-making (before the idiotic and meaningless overhead allocation). Hopefully we're not looking at "Milwaukee Road thinking" where decisions are made based on defective accounting.
On another topic, Mike is correct that Bud Shuster is on the correct committee and has a lot of power on it, and is worth lobbying.

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If they pushed hard for it, they'd have to come up with a few more cars.

MikefromCrete said:

Philly Amtrak Fan said:

jis said:

Pennsylvanian is funded by PennDOT. Amtrak cannot unilaterally change its schedule without taking the cost of running that train off PennDOT's back. Amtrak does not appear have either the ability or the willingness at present to the cost side of the ledger without having it completely covered by ticket+F&B revenue + subsidy. Such is the sad state of affairs.

Click to expand...

Then ask PennDOT for permission to change the schedule. Tell them they may get more passengers if the delay at PGH is reduced.

Click to expand...

Why would PennDOT be concerned about connecting passengers to the CL? The Pennyslvanian is designed for local service to and from points in Pennsylvania.

The answer, of course, is the revival of the Broadway Limited, your favorite topic. Write to your federal representatives. Bud Shuster is a big deal on the committee dealing with Amtrak. He's the guy you need to lobby.

Click to expand...

Because if you have to get to PGH to get to the CL then that's another reason for PA residents to travel on the Pennsylvanian to get there. Some passengers travel to PGH to visit PGH and others travel there to go further west. Why not make both more attractive or make it more attractive for the passengers traveling beyond PGH without sacrificing the passengers ending in PGH? I don't see why 8:05pm is that more important than say 10:05pm? Are there people who have to get to PGH by 8:05pm?

We all know I and other Philadelphia residents have choices to get to CHI. We can go down to WAS or up to NYP. If we travel to WAS, we're not riding PA's train. If we go up to NYP on a non Keystone train, we're not riding PA's train. If PA's train didn't have the four hour layover in PIT-tsburgh, maybe we would ride PA's train.

As for a direct train from PA to CHI, I recall the article about the father wanting to take his 8 year old daughter on a trip from CHI and PHL was not as attractive an option. I think Philly and PA benefits if that father and daughter travels here. But now they won't.

In my travels to/from the west coast, I recall passing through and getting off the train in Albuquerque. I remember going to the general store in Grand Junction, CO. I actually know and joked to one of my friends I was in Las Vegas and I was ... Las Vegas, New Mexico. When passing through these trains you see the train stopping at these places. I would probably have never heard of Grand Junction, CO or Las Vegas, NM if I didn't pass through there. You could say it's advertising for these places. Maybe an old BL/TR passenger went from CHI to NYP. They still spent a lot of time in PA and probably heard about Pittsburgh, Altoona/Horseshoe Curve, Harrisburg, and Philadelphia. They may have had time to get off the train at PGH and PHL for fresh air. I think Pennsylvania benefits from this.

Sure, PennDOT's priorities should be to its state's residents. But they should know that residents do like to visit other states and residents from other states may want to visit. Why not make it easier for people to enter/leave the state?

Look, you are a PA resident. Most of us are not. I think a more effective way of getting anything done would be for you to spend some time advocating to the actual decision makers at PennDOT. Posting infinite walls of text here will not cause anything to happen.

amtrakpass said:

I have made the pennsylvanian to capitol a connection a handful of times.The baggage room will store your luggage until you get back. Although downtown Pittsburgh can be quiet some evenings during one connection I enjoyed the "Proper Brick oven and tap room" which is a nice bar and italian place close by. Also enjoyed a restaurant called "meat and potatoes" last time. their hours vary so you'll just have to check what day of the week you are arriving. If you are more adventurous a short cab ride and back to east carson street and the south side neighborhood would be doable with many good options. Also really recommend seeing a show at Heinz Hall some time in Pittsburgh if you happen to stay a few days some time.this site has some good local info.http://www.visitpittsburgh.com/about-pittsburgh/neighborhoods/

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thank you for your reply, and the info about the baggage room. I already have a place in mind to visit for food and drink. Bills Bar n Burgers 1001 Liberty Ave, Pittsburgh, PA 15222

I forgot this thread wasn't about PRIAA or Congress. Admiral, please let us know how things go in Bills Bar N Burgers.

not sure if i will go there or order delivery, read some bad things about this place plus they want reservations.....

Another question or 2..

1) @ Harrisburg Station, is there priority boarding for Business Class?

2) From PBG to Chicago on the Capitol Lmtd., does anyone recommend a roomette for the trip currently have 1st. level coach?

also is sleepers priority boarding?

Thanks again everyone?

nobody has any answers?

I would recommend a roomette if available at a lowish bucket.

Don't know about boarding process at Harrisburg.

Admiral said:

Another question or 2..

1) @ Harrisburg Station, is there priority boarding for Business Class?

2) From PBG to Chicago on the Capitol Lmtd., does anyone recommend a roomette for the trip currently have 1st. level coach?

also is sleepers priority boarding?

Thanks again everyone?

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HBG had Red Caps, suggest you use one to board since you have to go downstairs to the Platform to board. ( tips are appreciated)

PGH-CHI is just an 8-9 hr trip, so Downstairs Coach should be fine.A Roomette can be pricey with just Breakfast included, so unless you're flush I'd go with the Coach.

3) Boarding in PGH is first come, first served. You will be in the "Basement" Waiting Room and have to go upstairs to catch the train via escelator. Ask the friendly agent if you need assistance, I've seen them help elderly and handicapped passengers..( last time I made this connection the escelator wasn't working!)

We tend to go off track here but there is lots of good info here. Please keep us informed about your decisions and your trip and Happy Rails!

MikefromCrete said:

Why would PennDOT be concerned about connecting passengers to the CL?

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For the same reason Illinois funds trains to STL perhaps? The real question is, is the marginal cost of a convenient connection less than the added revenue to PA?

Admiral said:

Another question or 2..

1) @ Harrisburg Station, is there priority boarding for Business Class?

Click to expand...

There is no priority boarding in HAR for business class.

Since you will have four hours in PGH before departing to CHI, i would recommend hopping a bus to the Church Brew Works: http://www.churchbrew.com/. It's an incredibly easy, short ten minute bus ride: https://goo.gl/maps/So1oXTreAu52. And, who wouldn't want to eat good food and drink great beer in a converted church/restaurant (get the yinzer cheesesteak if they still have it)!

Admiral said:

not sure if i will go there or order delivery, read some bad things about this place plus they want reservations.....

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Part-year Pittsburgh resident here, and regular rider on both the Pennsylvanian and the Capitol Limited.

Bill's Bar and Burgers is in the Westin Hotel, just one block from the "Amshack" station. (Which I agree is pretty depressing....especially when you compare it to its predecessor, the breathtaking concourse at the Pennsylvanian, now an apartment building.)

Bill's is okay, not great. Undeniably convenient. If your schedule (the Pennsylvanian often gets in early!) and the weather permit, and you're up to walking 1-2 blocks further, there are several very passable restaurants on Penn Ave. slightly past the Westin. I'd mention Tonic; Tenpenny; Sonoma; August Henry's; Sharp Edge; Six Penn; Bravo Franco; and others. There are several "dive-y" bars along Liberty Ave., which runs parallel to Penn.

You don't mention what day of the week you're traveling, but you'd find many of these closed on Sunday.

I love the Strip District but wouldn't walk there and back at that time of evening.