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#1 Andrew

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 10:19 AM

Are the new E320 train-sets an expansion of the Eurostar fleet or replacement of the old fleet that was put in service in the 1990's?

 

What is the height of the catenary wire above the tracks?

 

What about double decker trains on the Eurostar line?



#2 PerRock

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 10:22 AM

Google would probably know these answers better...

 

It's a bit of both. I think in time it'll be a replacement.

 

It varies.

 

Tunnel size

 

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#3 jis

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 12:52 PM

The Siemens sets are additions. The entire original fleet is being refurbished. In addition apparently DB intends to use modified ICE sets to make them compatible with the Eurotunnel emergency protocols, for service between Frankfurt and London within the next several years using the EU free access rules.

 

The biggest issue in Eurotunnel service is the ability to evacuate a train within the time parameters set, which is almost as tight as the ones required on commercial aircraft. Given the positioning and size of the escape doors from the main tube to the escape tube it restricts the total number of passengers that can occupy a given length of the train. So double decker or not they cannot carry more passengers per unit length than the limit set by the evacuation rules. Consequently, even though a TGV Duplex would easily fit physically, it would probably not be allowed because all those people cannot be evacuated fast enough.

 

The size, specifically height of trains passing through the tunnel are essentially unlimited when compared to the loading gauge outside the tunnel that the trains must meet in both UK and Europe, which is basic UIC loading gauge on the HSR line. The size of the tunnel is much large than the standard UIC loading gauge to allow the use of it by the motor vehicle carriers which are much taller than anything that would fit in standard UIC gauge.

 

If you have not traveled through the Eurotunnel, it is highly recommended that you do so at least once. If you know what to look for even in the darkness, it is a very unique experience, nothing like traveling through any other tunnel that I traveled through. It is just absolutely enormous! Specially those crossover chambers under the sea. And if you are on the correct side of the train (usually right side) you will see those welcome green lights flash by at regular intervals indicating the location of the escape doors from the running tube to the service tube.



#4 Devil's Advocate

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 04:40 PM

Surprisingly enough the Eurotunnel's conventional freight services have thus far represented the primary threat to life and limb for Eurostar passengers. The passenger trains themselves are modern, fast, safe, and reliable. Unfortunately the freight services have been far less so. Personally I would prefer that the tunnel regulators focus on preventing unnecessary disasters by clamping down on sloppy shippers and lazy lorry operators/maintainers rather than focusing on restricting passenger rail operations in an effort to survive avoidable disasters.

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#5 MattW

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 05:54 PM

So it sounds like the Channel Tunnel is a bit constrained by its mixing of traffic on only two tracks. Has there ever been talk of either two more bores (four tracks total) or an additional two-track tunnel? Glancing at Wiki, I don't see anything myself.


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#6 Andrew

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 06:41 PM

Why not build a new high speed line between greater London and the Channel Tunnel? It appears that this line is quite busy--perhaps causing the Eurostar to get congested at times.

 

So it sounds as if multiple working Duplex Trains will never operate on the Eurostar? 

 

This is a cool Eurostar cab ride video!  



#7 jis

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 12:32 AM

HSR-1 from London to Dollands Moor has plenty of additional capacity yet to be used. Most of the traffic in the channel tunnel is road traffic ferries. At present there is at most 4tph each way of Eurostar traffic through the tunnel. It is nowhere near a congestion point so there is no need to worry about spending another 40 billion or so Euros.

#8 Andrew

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 12:28 PM

Thanks.

 

And I think that a High Speed bypass is planned in Northwest France to avoid Lille in the future.



#9 MattW

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 03:51 PM

Ah, ok. 4tph of Eurostar isn't too bad. Plenty of space for that much shuttle and general freight traffic I think.


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#10 Andrew

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 10:14 PM

So it sounds as if there are not any plans to raise signal towers and overpasses to permit double decker trains to operate on the English section of the Eurostar line.

 

Why did Eurostar order Velaro's from Siemens instead of the AGV from Alstom?



#11 jis

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Posted 29 December 2015 - 10:43 PM

The English section of the Eurostar route has UIC loading gauge. So whatever can run in France can run on the English Eurostar route.

#12 PerRock

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 01:50 AM

Why did Eurostar order Velaro's from Siemens instead of the AGV from Alstom?

 

Cost, Siemens offered them a better deal.

 

Additionally Alstom wasn't & couldn't offer the AVG to Eurostar, it didn't meet the specs. Whatever Alstom would have provided would be a new build (using existing technology;) pretty much the same thing they are planning on doing for the Acela 2 (if they get the bid.) Alstom did sue multiple times to get the bid from Siemens, but eventually lost all their lawsuits, and decided to end litigation.

 

Trains traversing the Chunnel have/had* very strict rules one construction, flammability, rescue capabilities, etc. Which means you can't just take an existing train, repaint it and run it thru the tunnel. The new Class 374/e320 is a fairly heavily modified Velaro to fit these new specs.

 

*Some of these rules have been lessened, but I don't recall what exactly; Google will know if you're really that interested.

 

This all being said, I don't really understand where you are going with this line of thought with the double-deckers. High Speed 1 (the British line) isn't near capacity, they can still fit more trains on the tracks. So inventing new double-decker high speed trains to run on HS1 isn't really viable in any sense of the imagination.

 

Why are we trying to fix something that isn't broken?

 

peter


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#13 jis

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Posted 30 December 2015 - 07:31 AM

He is just carrying with one of the hoary traditions of AU - find solutions looking for a problem :D

#14 slasher-fun

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 08:35 AM

What is the height of the catenary wire above the tracks?

Hi,

 

Exactly 5,08 m on all high speed lines, that's 16'4".



#15 slasher-fun

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Posted 17 January 2016 - 08:38 AM

 

This all being said, I don't really understand where you are going with this line of thought with the double-deckers. High Speed 1 (the British line) isn't near capacity, they can still fit more trains on the tracks. So inventing new double-decker high speed trains to run on HS1 isn't really viable in any sense of the imagination.

 

Train companies pay a toll fee for each train running on tracks. It will cost less to transport the same number of passengers with less train services. That's also why Eurostar trainsets are 18 cars long (16 for e320), not the usual 8-10 figure.



#16 Andrew

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 01:00 PM

 

What is the height of the catenary wire above the tracks?

Hi,

 

Exactly 5,08 m on all high speed lines, that's 16'4".

 

 

That's good to know. If that is the case, then why aren't Duplex train-sets taller than the current 14'2''?



#17 CCC1007

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 01:24 PM

Weight on each axel?

#18 PerRock

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 01:26 PM

What is the height of the catenary wire above the tracks?

Hi,
 
Exactly 5,08 m on all high speed lines, that's 16'4".


Actually, 5.08m is the lowest. According the Network Rail Registry of Infrastructure for HS1, the Catenary height can range from 5.08m to 5.1m (16' 8"-9") and has a 200-400mm (7.8" to 15.7") allowable uplift.

Why no taller? because the railroad (in the 14'2" case, SNCF) deemed it not necessary. The TGV Duplexes occasionally run on non-LGV lines and in foreign countries so there may be height restrictions there. But adding height isn't going to add much (if anything) in the way of additional capacity. What it will do is add weight, making more difficult to reach the higher speeds.

peter

Edited by PerRock, 18 January 2016 - 01:27 PM.

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#19 Fan Railer

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 04:39 PM

Weight on each axel?

http://www.mobility....aro-e320-en.pdf



#20 Andrew

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 09:09 AM

I am trying to find information, but I have not been able to locate it:

 

Does anyone know how many trains per hour the busy LGV Nord section sees, and why the Eurostar shares these tracks, rather than have it's own alignment that runs parallel to the LGV Nord in France?






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