Comparing Amtrak Schedules, Past vs. Present

After studying and reading about old Amtrak service, I get the sense I was born in the wrong era to be a train lover. I also hear a lot about trains being slower today than in the past as there is more gridlock. So I wanted to find out how much a difference there is today from the past.

I will compare schedules of trains from three different years, 1979 (schedule July 29, 1979, before Carter cuts), January 1995 when I first took the Broadway Limited (schedule October 30, 1994, last full year of BL) and 2015 (Winter/Spring 2016 schedule) to see how much of a difference through the years there is.

Schedules are as always based on timetables.org.

New York to Chicago:

1979: (BL) 3:00pm to 9:05am next day (19:05) or (LSL) 6:45pm (Grand Central Terminal) to 3:10pm next day (21:25)

1995: (BL) 12:45pm to 7:55am next day (20:10) or (LSL) 7:10pm to 12:58pm next day (18:45)

2015: (LSL) 3:40pm to 9:45am next day (19:05)

Ironically it appears the LSL took longer in 1979 than it does today. Was the 1979 schedule a misprint? The BL was faster in 1979 but the LSL was faster in 1995.

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0034

Chicago to Los Angeles via SL/SWC:

1979: (Southwest Limited): 6:30pm to 9:05am 2 days later (40:35)

1995: (SWC) 5:00pm to 8:15am 2 days later (41:15)

2015: (SWC) 3:00pm to 8:15am 2 days later (43:15)

Today's train is 2 hr slower than 1995 and 2:40 slower than 1979. Pretty negligible considering a trip of 43:15 today.

Chicago to Dallas

1979: (Inter-American) 11:15am to 7:30am next day (20:15)

1995: (TE) 5:45pm to 2:24pm next day (20:39)

2015: (TE) 1:45pm to 11:30am next day (21:45)

Today's train is 1:30 slower than 1979 and 1:06 slower than 1995.

Today's train is

Philadelphia to Orlando via SS (SM in 1979 skipped ORL):

1979: 10:40am to 7:48am next day (21:08)

1995: 12:49pm to 10:05am next day (21:16)

2015: 12:35pm to 10:06am next day (21:31)


Almost no change from the old days.

Philadelphia to Chicago

1979: (BL) 4:22pm (North Philadelphia) or 4:25pm (through cars from WAS) to 9:05am next day (17:40)

1995: (BL) 2:57pm to 7:55am next day (17:58)

2015: (NER 95/CL) 12:02pm or 12:42pm (Pennsylvanian/CL) to 8:45am next day (21:03/21:43)

A 3-4 hr. difference from the old days. I wonder why.

Philadelphia to Los Angeles:

1979: (NL/SWL): 7:00pm to 9:05am 3 days later (64:05)

1995: (BL/SWC) 2:57pm to 8:15am 3 days later (67:18)

2015: (NER 95/CL/SWC 12:02pm or 12:42pm (Pennsylvanian/CL/SWC) to 8:15am 3 days later (69:33/70:13)

A 2-3 hr difference from 1995 but a 5.5-6 hr difference from 1979 as transferring in KCY made for a quicker trip. Then again, this is 5.5 hr out of a 70 hr trip.

Chicago to Orlando:

1979: (Floridian) 9:30pm to 9:05am 2 days later (34:35)

1995: (CL/SS) 6:25pm to 10:05am 2 days later (38:40)

2015: (CL/SS) 6:40pm to 10:06am 2 days later (38:26)

The transfer added about four hours to the trip between 1979 and 1995.

Among the trains where the route is the same as in 1979/1995, there was little change in trip times. But for those trips where a transfer was added or a different transfer was required, the additional time was more significant.

As much as I complain about transfers (and wrote a post about missed connections), at the very least transfers add time on to trips. A 5.5 hr difference on a formerly 65 hr trip probably isn't that much but a 3-4 hr difference on a trip that used to take 18 hrs is making the trip about 16% longer.

Philly Amtrak Fan said:

Among the trains where the route is the same as in 1979/1995, there was little change in trip times. But for those trips where a transfer was added or a different transfer was required, the additional time was more significant.

As much as I complain about transfers (and wrote a post about missed connections), at the very least transfers add time on to trips. A 5.5 hr difference on a formerly 65 hr trip probably isn't that much but a 3-4 hr difference on a trip that used to take 18 hrs is making the trip about 16% longer.

Click to expand...

What is the point of this thread? When did anyone dispute transfers add time to travel and a comparison to a train that no longer operates isn't really valid.

Additionally, there are so many things different than in 1979 that comparison is really not feasible from anything other than a historic "just for the record" point of view. Operating rules have changed, numerous regulations have been added, hosts have changed, passengers themselves have changed, speeds have changed.

If you're a train lover, the 5.5 hours I suspect you're whining about for your cut train should be a pleasure.

It's an interesting piece of comparison imho. Though some might be comparing apples to oranges it's still fun to look at the changed.

Philly Amtrak Fan said:

After studying and reading about old Amtrak service, I get the sense I was born in the wrong era to be a train lover.

Click to expand...

Also the wrong country. Move to China and it's a great era to be a train lover....
The underlying problem has been disinterest in or hostility to passenger service by the track owners; understandable given the economics of the period.

For what it's worth, Conrail made the NYC line its fast intermodal line and the Pennsy line its slow bulk line, which to a large extent accounts for the declining speed on the Pennsy line and rising speed on the NYC line. The predecessor railroads had different policies.

I also enjoy comparing Amtrak 'then and now'....

It is interesting to look back at Amtrak's first timetable, where trains ran mostly the identical timings that they did on the predecessor railroads the day before....hence The Broadway Limited, Train No. 48 ran its old Penn Central schedule (and train number) from Chicago to New York in only 16 hours and 50 minutes....

And there was no service between Buffalo and Chicago until the Lakeshore was started up later on. The only alternate route west from Buffalo was to detour via Toronto and Windsor/Detroit...

I also find it interesting to compare today's Amtrak service on certain routes to the timetable from 1965 and marvel at how much better the service is today, while bemoaning the zillions of other routes where there was relatively lousy service back in 1965 which has no service today, and sometimes no tracks to run any service on today too.

The biggest Amtrak improvements since those days is in both the NEC and western corridor routes, with higher frequency of service...

railiner said:

The biggest Amtrak improvements since those days is in both the NEC and western corridor routes, with higher frequency of service...

Click to expand...

Unfortunately long distance travel was hit hard by the increase of air travel. These days, shorter trains will always be more popular.

This chart has a convenient Chicago chart for connections. I don't know why Amtrak doesn't publish this today.

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0033

Back in 1979,

East to West:

7:00am - 56 from Florida

9:05am - 41 from New York/Washington (and Philly!)

3:10pm - 49 from New York/Boston

6:15pm - 51 from Washington/Cincinnati

11:15am- 21 to St. Louis/Laredo (not daily)

11:30am - 7/17 to Minneapolis/Seattle

4:10pm - 15 to Dallas/Houston

6:15pm - 5 to Denver/San Francisco

6:30pm - 3 to Los Angeles

West to East:

11:25am - 16 from Houston/Dallas

1:25pm - 6 from San Francisco/Denver

2:05pm - 4 from Los Angeles

2:15pm - 22 from Laredo/St. Louis (not daily)

6:59pm - 8/18 to Minneapolis/Seattle

9:55am - 50 to Cincinnati/Washington

3:30pm - 48 to New York/Boston

4:00pm - 40 to New York/Washington (and Philly!)

9:30pm - 57 to Florida

The old rules: 30 minutes or less not guaranteed, less than an hour not recommended. I wonder what the new "rules" would be today.

In 1979, the Empire Builder (7/8) and North Coast Hiawatha (17/18) alternated (4 days for EB, 3 days for NCW):

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0043

Also, the Inter-American (21/22) was daily until September and 3 days/week after:

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0042

Back then the California trains left quite a bit later (6:15pm/6:30pm) and arrived a little earlier (1:25pm/2:05pm). The LSL didn't arrive into CHI until 3:10pm while the LSL left at 3:30pm and the BL left at 4pm. Can you imagine only a 1 hr 25 min window between the SWC and LSL today or even a 1 hr 55 window between the SWC and BL (if there was a BL) today? Right now, it's a 3 hr window and that misses 12% of the time.

Going west, the LSL allowed for about a 3 hr window to California and a 1 hr window to the Lone Star. The BL got in early. Back then, if you did PHL/LAX via CHI you would have a 9 hr wait in CHI (of course back then the NL was still running). I think it was good to have two different daily trains from NYP to CHI with staggered times.

For those hoping for a 6pm departure for the LSL today, imagine a 3:30pm/4pm departure and arriving in NYP at 12:20pm or 1:10pm!

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0034

I really don't think you could move either of the California trains now to arrive earlier and/or leave later and the shorter transfer windows wouldn't be practical today (maybe they weren't back then either).

The Floridian could transfer to all the western trains and accept passengers from all the western trains.

However,

The Seattle trains (EB/NCH) could only transfer to the Floridian going east and the Broadway and Floridian going west.

The Cardinal could not be used for East/West transfers (left too early/arrived too late) at all (well if you could have transferred from the 51 to the 3 in 15 minutes or the 51 to the 5 instantaneously then maybe)

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19790729&item=0035

It's clear back then that the Cardinal was scheduled for better arrival/departure times in CIN (CHI-CIN 9:55am-6:37pm, CIN-CHI 11:16am-6:15pm) and those allowed for better arrival/departure times to/from WAS as well. The current trains have graveyard shift departure/arrival times in CIN but allow for transfers in CHI. Back in 1979, the trains did not serve IND.

I've debated this and usually got negative responses from most but I ask would CIN rather have trains arriving/leaving at better times but lose transfers to the west in CHI or have the graveyard shift trains that allow for transfers? And is that important? I would say CIN and IND are the biggest unique markets of the Cardinal so shouldn't the trains be scheduled for their benefit the most (and if so, what is to their benefit)? If the Cardinal was scheduled to miss the CHI transfers, only the LSL and CL would allow for CHI transfers. But back in 1979, only the LSL and BL would (counting only NEC) so it would be no different today than it was in 1979 from a Chicago transfer standpoint.

More from the timetables.org history:

This is the schedule from the very first Amtrak schedule listed (May 1971)

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19710501&item=0018

Many of the routes have individual maps in addition to the full national map. It shows some of the major points and some transfer/through cars.

I wish they still had the HAR-WAS route (Port Road?)

Port Road was electrified back then. The Washington Section of the Broadway Limited operated on it powered by a GG-1. That electrification is now gone, as is the Broadway Limited and its Washington Section. And of course the National Limited and its Washington Section is gone too.

Prior to Amtrak, the Port Road was freight-only, for a very long time....one of the very rare cases of Amtrak actually bringing back passenger service to a route, instead of eliminating it.

Before Amtrak, Penn Central still operated at least one connecting train up the old PRR Northern Central branch to connect Washington and Baltimore to Harrisburg and the West. That route which featured street running thru York, Pa., is now gone....

I appreciate this look into the variations in travel times over the years. Sometimes you just wonder how good it could be, even with conventional service, i.e. the 20th Century running New York to Chicago in 15:30 at its fastest. I know, fewer stops, and was there even a Boston segment to slow things down? Still makes you see what's possible with essentially no capital investment in track, signals or rolling stock, only scheduling and host railroad priority.

The 20th Century limited did not have a Boston section at least in 1965. There was a separate train from Boston to Chicago which was much slower with many more stops.

Bradenmeridian said:

I appreciate this look into the variations in travel times over the years. Sometimes you just wonder how good it could be, even with conventional service, i.e. the 20th Century running New York to Chicago in 15:30 at its fastest. I know, fewer stops, and was there even a Boston segment to slow things down? Still makes you see what's possible with essentially no capital investment in track, signals or rolling stock, only scheduling and host railroad priority.

Click to expand...

It was the Broadway Limited, not the Century, that made the 15', 30" schedule....believe the Century managed a 15', 45" schedule at its shortest....

Of course some NYC partisans would make the point that the Century was faster, as it had to make about 53 more miles to complete its route...

jis said:

The 20th Century limited did not have a Boston section at least in 1965. There was a separate train from Boston to Chicago which was much slower with many more stops.

Click to expand...

The "Boston section", or top carded train,was called The New England States....

In 1973 when the RTG turboliners made their debut on the Chicago-St.Louis train #301,302,303,and 304, the scheduled running time was 4 hours 59 minutes. This was achieved 85% of the time!

And at one time, there was a "Non-stop" Metroliner that was carded for 2 hours and 30 minutes between New York and Washington.

Don't know how it measured up overall, but the day I rode it, it made the run in 2:29. We crossed New Jersey fast...only 39 minutes from NYP to Morrisville, Pa!

Yep,good memories! Those Metroliners were Fast and Very Comfortable to ride in! I still prefer them to the current Acelas! YMMV

Here are some more schedule changes between today and my first Amtrak LD trip, the Broadway Limited in January 1995 (using timetables.org Fall 1994 schedules: http://www.timetables.org/browse/?group=19941030n&st=0001).

Carolinian:

NYP 7:20am, PHL 9:02am, WAS 11:25am, RVR 1:35pm, RGH 5:03pm, GBO 7:18pm, CLT 9:05pm

CLT 8:15am, GBO 9:59am, RGH 12:10pm, RVR 3:45pm, WAS 6:05pm, PHL 8:38pm, NYP 10:27pm

About an hour faster (probably due to faster NEC). I wonder if CLT couldn't be moved back to 8:15am instead of the earlier 7:00am now. It would still arrive in NYP before 10pm.

Palmetto (Traveled to ORL/TPA):
NYP 9:25am, PHL 10:58am, WAS 1:55pm, RIC 4:15pm, JAX 3:05am, ORL 6:43am, TPA 8:40am

TPA 9:25pm, ORL 11:11pm, JAX 2:21am, RIC 2:35pm, WAS 4:55pm, PHL 7:47pm, NYP 9:24pm
Silver Star (ORL/TPA and MIA branches separate at JAX):

NYP 10:45am, PHL 12:49pm, WAS 3:45pm, RIC 6:05pm, RGH 9:42pm, JAX 6:28am, ORL 10:05am, TPA 12:02pm, MIA 3:00pm

MIA 11:25am, TPA 2:25pm, ORL 4:12pm, JAX 8:05pm, RGH 4:56am, RIC 8:30am, WAS 10:50am, PHL 1:38pm, NYP 3:40pm



Silver Meteor:

NYP 3:45pm, PHL 5:48pm, WAS 8:24pm, RIC 10:34pm, JAX 9:22am, ORL 12:57pm, MIA 6:05pm

MIA 7:25am, ORL 12:36pm, JAX 4:00pm, RIC 3:06am, WAS 5:16am, PHL 8:09am, NYP 9:45am

Back then, the Palmetto also served Orlando and Tampa. One thing better about 2016 is that you can go from Tampa to Miami by train (it didn't look like you could in 1994/95). The Palmetto NEC times seemed better than they are today (later departure, earlier arrival).

The later SS northbound arrival into WAS (now 2:38pm) squeezed out the CL/SS connection going from Florida to CHI. I'm guessing WAS likes the later northbound arrival on the SM than the 5:16am back then though.
Crescent:

NYP 1:42pm, PHL 3:43pm, WAS 6:50pm, GBO 1:13am, CLT 2:58am, ALT 8:30am, NOL 7:28pm

NOL 7:05am, ATL 7:45am, CLT 1:04am, GBO 2:55am, WAS 9:28am, PHL 12:24pm, NYP 2:45pm

Pretty similar times today with the slightly faster service along the NEC.

Cardinal:
NYP 9:24am, PHL 11:17am, WAS 1:45pm, CVS 4:20pm, CIN 3:55am, IND 7:45am, CHI 11:25am

CHI 7:40pm, IND 12:54am, CIN 4:45am, CVS 4:11pm, WAS 7:05pm, PHL 9:54pm, NYP 11:30pm

I'm guessing the train missed connections to the west more often with the later arrival but connections from the west less often with the later departure. Indy had a better departure to CHI but a worse arrival from CHI. If the train left CHI two hours later today, it would arrive in NYP pretty close to if not after midnight.

Broadway Limited:

NYP 12:45pm, PHL 2:57pm, HAR 5:10pm, PGH 11:02pm, CHI 7:55am

CHI 8:35pm, PGH 7:25am, HAR 1:15pm, PHL 3:29pm, NYP 5:50pm

Pennsylvanian:
NYP 7:47am, PHL 9:24am, HAR 11:46am, PGH 5:35pm

(M-Sa) PGH 10:15am, HAR 4:00pm, PHL 6:06pm, NYP 8:00pm

I've discussed BL/TR too much but I will say PGH also lost a lot from losing the trains. The BL/TR was much better for PGH-CHI travel and it was better to have two trains to PHL/NYP compared to the one today. The Pennsylvanian left PGH only about 3 hrs later than the BL, maybe it could have left later for a larger gap to arrive in NYP around 10pm?

Capitol Limited:
WAS 4:05pm, PGH 11:47pm, CLE 3:07am, TOL 5:09am, CHI 9:00am

CHI 6:25pm, TOL 11:45pm, CLE 1:39am, PGH 4:55am, WAS 12:22pm

Not much change in the overall schedule.

Lake Short Limited:
BOS 4:20pm, NYP 7:10pm, ALB 10:23pm, SYR 12:57am, BUF 3:51am, CLE 7:06am, TOL 9:34am, NYP 12:58pm

NYP 7:15pm, TOL 12:26am, CLE 2:51am, BUF 6:02am, SYR 8:40am, ALB 11:17am, NYP 2:49pm, BOS 5:10pm

I'm not sure about the later westbound arrival into Chicago. If that time existed today, there'es no way you could make the TE and CZ and any delays from the LSL would make you miss the SWC. It also left BUF in the middle of the night but Ohio couldn't complain about the westbound times. Of course NYP also had the BL to get to CHI then too.

Eastbound this is the earlier arrival that a few of you have been dreaming about. Of course, this was when the BL existed (although the departure was 8:35pm and not 9:30pm as the LSL is today).

City of New Orleans:
CHI 7:50pm, CHM 10:21pm, MEM 6:15am, NOL 2:30pm

NOL 2:45pm, MEM 10:47pm, CHM 6:30am, CHI 9:10am

About an hour longer in each direction today but not much difference in times.

I will do the western trains later.

Continuing ...

Sunset Limited:

MIA 12:30pm, ORL 5:28pm, JAX 9:07pm, NOL 11:00am/1:20pm, HOS 9:50pm, SAS 2:25/2:55am, ELP 1:25/1:45pm, Phoenix 10:40pm, LAX 6:15am

LAX 10:30pm, Phoenix 8:08am, ELP 4:40/5:00pm, SAS 5:30/6:15am, HOS 10:55am, NOL 7:35/10:40pm, JAX 2:05pm, ORL 5:35pm, MIA 10:55pm

The LAX and SAS times are about the same as they are now. If they ever want to serve SAS going east/west, they're going to need better times as I had suggested in my post about rescheduling the SL. There must be some bottleneck now between NOL and SAS as the train takes about 2 hours longer today. The train didn't allow same day connections to the Crescent or CONO unless you count going south on 19 to east on 2 and there would be almost no reason to do so I can think of. The SL also functioned as a late night train from ORL to MIA (none exist today). Not only did LAX-Phoenix exist but the times were almost entirely overnight in the "sweet spot" Nate had suggested in the post about Amtrak trains competitive with airplanes.

Texas Eagle (21/22 to SAS, 521/522 to HOS, split apparently before DAL):
CHI 5:45pm, STL 12:15am, DAL 2:24pm on 521, 2:49pm on 21, FTW 4:12/4:32pm, HOS 10:00pm, SAS 11:40pm (see SL schedule west of SAS)

SAS 7:05am, HOS 8:25am, FTW 2:10/2:30pm, DAL 4:05pm, STL 6:55am, CHI 1:35pm

I'm wondering why the DAL-HOS branch was cut off. It would seem to have pretty good ridership between two major markets, the train is around 6 hrs each way (not terrible) and College Station (Texas A&M) is along the route (you would think A&M students would want to go to DAL or HOS to go "home"). Now going from CHI to HOS requires a Thruway Bus for over 6 hrs each way or an overnight in SAS or NOL. That is one service I feel has to come back in some form. I suggested extending the Heartland Flyer south from Ft. Worth to Houston.

The train looks to take about 2 hrs longer going southbound but much less northbound. I think the later departure helps passengers from the east (especially from the LSL which didn't get into CHI until almost 1pm).

Southwest Chief:

CHI: 5:00pm, KCY 12:45am/1:00am, ABQ 4:55pm/5:15pm, FLG 10:15pm, LAX 8:15am

LAX: 8:15pm, FLG 7:15am, ABQ 12:55pm/1:15pm, KCY 6:45am/7:05am, CHI 3:25pm

Also appears to be 2 hrs longer each way with the later departure from CHI and the earlier departure from LAX. I'm guessing KCY likes the current westbound times than the ones back then. The 5:00pm departure allowed more leeway from the later LSL arrival into CHI.

Desert Wind:

CHI: 3:05pm, OMA 11:35/11:59pm, LNK 1:02/1:12am, DEN 8:10/9:10am, SLC 11:36pm/12:45am, Las Vegas 7:50/8:05am, LAX 3:20pm

LAX: 10:55am, Las Vegas 5:45/6:00pm, SLC 3:30/5:05am, DEN 7:40/9:00pm, LNK 5:15/5:25am, OMA 6:25/6:50am, CHI 4:15pm

Empire Builder:

CHI: 3:15pm, MKE 4:51pm, MSP 11:23/11:59pm, SPK 2:10/2:40/2:55am, PDX 10:20am, SEA 10:35am

SEA: 5:00pm, PDX 5:20pm, SPK 12:45/1:00/1:35am, MSP 7:40/8:20am, MKE 2:46pm, CHI 4:24pm

Pioneer (3x week):

CHI: 3:05pm, OMA 11:35/11:59pm, LNK 1:02/1:12am, DEN 8:10/9:45am, Ogden 9:26/9:46pm, Boise 3:59am, PDX 2:05/2:40pm, SEA 6:35pm

SEA: 7:30am, PDX 11:25/11:40am, Boise 11:26pm, Ogden 6:18/6:38am, DEN 6:05/9:00pm, LNK 5:15/5:25am, OMA 6:25/6:50am, CHI 4:15pm


California Zephyr:
CHI: 3:05pm, OMA 11:35/11:59pm, LNK 1:02/1:12am, DEN 8:10/9:10am, SLC 11:36pm/12:35am, SAC 2:40pm, EMY 5:00pm
EMY 10:05am, SAC 12:12pm, SLC 3:45/5:05am, DEN 7:40/9:00pm, LNK 5:15/5:25am, OMA 6:25/6:50am, CHI 4:15pm

This was when three different trains shared CHI-DEN service and the DW and CZ shared DEN-SLC service. The westbound leaves an hour earlier today while the eastbound arrives an hour earlier today but the CHI-EMY travel times look about the same today as back then.

Coast Starlight:
SEA: 9:10am, PDX 1:20/1:45pm, SAC 5:30am, EMY 7:30/7:45am, SJC 9:00am, LAX 8:10pm
LAX: 9:55am, SJC 7:55pm, EMY 9:18/9:33am, SAC 12:22am, PDX 4:00/4:30pm, SEA 8:45pm

Back then the CS didn't serve Oakland. Roughly the same times as today.
So Chicago E-W transfer times:

BL: 7:55am, CL 9:00am, Cardinal 11:25am, LSL 12:58pm
CZ/DW/Pioneer: 3:05pm, EB 3:15pm, SWC 5:00pm, TE 5:45pm

I'm guessing LSL to CZ/DW/Pioneer and EB was tight and there were frequent missed connections and that frequent travelers would know better to take the BL from NYP to CHI if they wanted to catch one of the western trains other than the SWC and TE. With today's CZ leaving at 2pm and EB leaving at 2:15pm, no way could the LSL arrive at 12:58pm (especially with no BL).

Chicago W-E transfer times:
TE 1:35pm, SWC 3:25pm, CZ/DW/Pioneer 4:15pm, EB 4:24pm
CL 6:25pm, LSL 7:15pm, Cardinal 7:40pm, BL 8:35pm

The later CZ/DW/Pioneer and EB would make connections to the CL difficult. Ironically now the LSL is later than the BL was back then even though the CZ gets in before 3pm and the EB before 4pm. Maybe the LSL leaves later to avoid arriving in NYP during the evening rush although the BL back then arrived in NYP at 5:50pm.

A couple comments...

I think the Texas Eagle's Houston section was cut during a relatively small cost/service-cutting phase in the mid 1990s, before the great purge that saw all (or at least most) Western trains drop to less than daily service.

As far as Oakland, this would have been during a period after 16th Street Station (which was damaged in the 1989 earthquake) was closed and before Jack London Square station opened. I believe Emeryville was the primary "Oakland" station for a period of time.

I decide to update this thread, comparing Amtrak today to the beginning of Amtrak based on the first posted Amtrak Timetable (May 1, 1971) from the Museum of Railway Timetables. There is an attached .pdf file at the bottom of the post summarizing the timetable.

Here is the Eastern national map shown: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19710501&item=0017

The Western page (other side) looks almost identical to today's map in terms of LD trains. The biggest differences I saw were there was no Amtrak San Joaquin service and the Sunset (listed as Sunset and not Sunset Limited) ran through Phoenix.

From the Eastern half, one of the biggest missing large city was Cleveland. It was hard to imagine Amtrak leaving Cleveland out at the very beginning (Cleveland had almost twice as many people in 1970 as it did in 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland).This was of course before the LSL. Dallas had no service that I could see at the beginning of Amtrak (the map shows a dotted line connecting Dallas to Ft. Worth and Houston, the Texas Chief served both Ft. Worth and Houston but ran through Temple).

Of the trains that ran through the Pacific Time Zone, the LD train routes were roughly the same as they are now except the California Zephyr only ran 3x/week between Denver and Oakland, the Seattle-LA train (no name listed) only ran 3x/week but also ran to San Diego. On the days the Seattle-San Diego train didn't run, there was a train from Oakland to LA (no name listed). There was also regional service between Los Angeles and San Diego although only 2x/day compared to the many today. There wasn't any regional service between Oakland and Sacramento other than the California Zephyr. The Sunset back then was also 3x/week as it still is today.

Over in the East Coast, they did not list any New York-Harrisburg trains other than the Broadway Limited, National Limited, and Duquesne (the New York-Pittsburgh train at the time). They did have quite a few New York-Philadelphia trains as well as New York-Washington and Boston-Washington trains. The only service I saw through Virginia were the LD trains.

Back then, there was the James Whitcomb Riley from Cincinnati to Chicago and the George Washington from Newport News/Washington to Cincinnati. Both trains were daily. You could connect from the GW to the JWR in Cincinnati going west but not going east: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19710501&item=0023.

There were three trains from New York to Florida, the Silver Star, the Silver Meteor, and the Champion although the routes were different. The Silver Meteor went through Raleigh and the Champion went through Charleston: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19710501&item=0021. You can argue the Champion is now the Palmetto without the Florida part. The South Wind used to run between Chicago and Florida via Louisville, Nashville, and Montgomery: http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19710501&item=0025.

The Southern Crescent (as it was called) was only daily from New York to Atlanta and 3x/week between Atlanta and New Orleans.

The Texas train was called the Texas Chief and ran via Kansas City, Wichita, and Oklahoma City. There was no train through Little Rock at the time and the only San Antonio train was the Sunset. There was no service between New Orleans and Florida either as the Sunset terminated eastbound in New Orleans (as it does today).

In terms of East to Midwest trains, the Capitol Limited and Lake Shore Limited essentially replaced the Broadway and Spirit of St. Louis although they serve much different cities (although it was good they do serve Cleveland). The James Whitcomb Riley/George Washington essentially merged to the Cardinal. Passengers from Washington (and Baltimore) used through cars to the Broadway Limited to get to/from Chicago and to the Spirit of St. Louis to St. Louis/Kansas City. St. Louis-Kansas City was served by the Spirit of St. Louis at the time as there were no other service between the cities at the time.

It's pretty clear Amtrak has expanded statewide trains a lot since 1971 but long distance service has shrinked since then. While they added Cleveland and Dallas as well as the Auto Train, they lost Phoenix, Columbus, Louisville, Nashville, and many others. At the time, there was no service to Las Vegas but back in 1970 the population of Vegas was 125,787 compared to 613,999 in 2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas). I think trading the Broadway/Spirit of St. Louis for the Capitol Limited was a horrible trade although you all knew I would think that. Certainly the CL is fewer miles between Chicago and Washington and serves Cleveland and Toledo as opposed to Canton and Ft. Wayne but you traded in most of Pennsylvania (and Baltimore) for the tiny population between Pittsburgh and Washington. There is no direct service from the East Coast/Indianapolis to St. Louis/Kansas City anymore although I'm not sure that is as big a loss (but losing Columbus is). I'm not sold on trading Wichita and Oklahoma City for Little Rock although serving San Antonio and Houston is a definite plus.

I am assuming Amtrak has never had a 3-C route connecting Cleveland and Cincinnati. Today that looks like a giant hole in the Amtrak system but back then Cleveland and Cincinnati had many more people than they do today (Columbus had a lot less). You can blame Kasich all you want for no 3-C in 2010 but what about the nearly 40 years before then, especially before the 750 mile rule? And Cincinnati also had no route to Pittsburgh either. They couldn't have used Penn Central's Cincinnati Limited (http://www.american-rails.com/cinn-ltd.html)? At least back then Cincinnati had trains arriving/leaving at good times as opposed to today.

Please point out any mistakes.

Beginning of Amtrak.pdf

This was your best post ever Philly! Good job! Most enjoyable, I agree with lots of your ideas.

But as many of us have said, we don't want to cut LD Trains ( the Cardinal, your pet peeve) to add a Broadway Ltd.

IMO The Cardinal should run to St Louis, perhaps even to Kansas City also, not to Chicago.

And the through cars from the Pennsylvanian to the Cap in PGH is the easiest way to go, not aNew Broadway Ltd.

Until 1979 or so the southern railroad kept the crescent as one of their own trains.

To go a little bit farther back before Amtrak... http://www.thejoekorner.com/brochures/index-timetables-panyc.html

They show the old PRR (http://www.thejoekorner.com/brochures/prr-timetable/index.html ) and NYC (http://www.thejoekorner.com/brochures/NYC-timetable/index.html ) schedules from 1967 before the PC merger. They do have the NYC trains from PC in 1968 but not the PRR ones.

If I had to choose parts of PRR and NYC as a basis for East-Midwest travel in 1971, I probably take

PRR:

New York-Chicago route (via Philly, Harrisburg, Pittsburgh). I'd also run a separate train New York-Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh-St. Louis route (via Columbus, Dayton, Indianapolis).

Chicago-Louisville route (via Indianapolis). This could wind up merging the South Wind from Chicago to Florida using the Louisville & Nashville and Seaboard Coast Line routes shown in the PRR timetable).

NYC:

New York-Chicago route (via Albany, Syracuse, Buffalo, Cleveland, Toledo)

Boston-Chicago route (via Albany, Syracuse, Buffalo, Detroit)

Cleveland-Cincinnati route (via Columbus, Dayton)

Chicago-Cincinnati route (via Indianapolis). I would then continue this train to Columbus, Pittsburgh, Harrisburg, Baltimore, and Washington using the old PRR Cincinnati-Washington line. So this route would be NYC west of CIN and PRR east of it! PRR did have a Chicago to Cincinnati train but it skipped Indianapolis so the NYC route would be preferred.

There would be four main routes from Chicago to the East Coast.

To Boston via Detroit, Canada, Buffalo, and Albany (NYC)

To New York via Cleveland, Buffalo, and Albany (NYC)

To New York/Philadelphia via Pittsburgh, Harrisburg (PRR)

To Baltimore/Washington via Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Harrisburg (NYC/PRR)

Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, Detroit, and Indianapolis would all have one direct line heading west to Chicago and east to the East Coast.

There could be some flexibility between the Cleveland and Detroit trains in terms of heading to New York and/or to Boston with a split at Albany and some flexibility between the Indy/Ohio and Canton trains heading to Philadelphia/New York and/or to Baltimore/Washington with a split at Harrisburg. I think having at least one to Boston, one to New York, one to Philadelphia (which continues to New York), and one to Baltimore/Washington is important as well as serving the key Midwestern cities.

If demand warrants, Cleveland-Cincinnati could be extended to New York and/or Boston although in 1967 there was no Ohio State Limited anymore. Maybe it could be a through car branch off of the New York-Chicago train at Cleveland. Technically you could do an all NYC routed train Chicago-Indianapolis-Cincinnati-Columbus-Cleveland-Buffalo-Albany-New York but that seems zig-zaggy. I couldn't find any route on PRR or NYC from Pittsburgh to Cleveland in either 1967 timetable. I don't believe PRR even served Cleveland then.

If demand warrants, St. Louis-Pittsburgh could be extended to Philadelphia/New York and/or Baltimore/Washington or the St. Louis-Pittsburgh leg could be a through car branch off of the New York-Chicago train at Pittsburgh.

This would have been far more than what Amtrak actually took. Could they have afforded it? Would something else have not been added to Amtrak to account for my proposed routes?

Also at the main scheduling page was a 1960 Lackawanna Railroad timetable which served Scranton, PA with service to New York and to Buffalo: http://www.thejoekorner.com/brochures/dlw-timetable/index.html. It would be nice if Scranton had trains today.