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Passenger Miles Per Train Mile Metric


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#41 neroden

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 09:48 AM

 

Updated for Second Quarter 2016 (Jan-March):
http://www.fra.dot.g...25_gD_lRO_y2016


Report is great best train of course is auto train but the 2nd best is the Lynchburg train. 340 PM / TM Really great.

 

OK, sorting by PM/TM:

Auto Train 374

Lynchburg 340

Newport News 274

Carolinian 254

NE Regional 227

Adirondack 226

Coast Starlight 219

Silver Meteor 214

Pennsylvanian 213

LSL 206

Richmond 204

Acela 194

SW Chief 191

Capitol Limited 186

Silver Star 179

Norfolk 179

Texas Eagle 170

California Zephyr 169

Empire Builder 164

CONO 161

Blue Water 159

Ethan Allen Express 157

Crescent 154

Pacific Surfliner 154

Palmetto 149

Keystone 146

Wolverine 146

Sunset Limited 133

Empire Service 132

Cascades 127

San Joaquins 124

Cardinal 121

Maple Leaf 116

Illini/Saluki 116

Pere Marquette 116

New Haven-Springfield 113

Carl Sandburg/Ilinois Zephyr 92

Capitol Corridor 85

Downeaster 84

Kansas City - St Louis 83

Heartland Flyer 83

Piedmont 72

Hoosier State 59

 

This should only be used as one measure, because it doesn't accont for, among other things, ticket prices or number of trains per day (there are economies of scale from running more trains on the same route, so a lower PM/TM doesn't necessarily indicate worse financial performance if there are more trains per day).  It also doesn't tell you if the train is full from NY to Atlanta and empty from Atlanta to New Orleans, for example.

 

It is interesting to see which state-supported trains are at the bottom of the patronage scale, though.  And it reinforces again that three-a-week is stupid; the Cardinal and Sunset Limited would undoubtely have better PM/TM if they were daily.


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#42 jis

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 11:30 AM

Also, train lengths, i.e. total number of seats offered per train matter. I tend to believe that the SS would do much better if it actually offered more seats. I wonder if one calculated the Offered Seat Miles/ Train Miles and PM/TM were seen side by side, what patterns would emerge. Is the ratio between those tow number pretty similar or does it vary wildly, and if so what is the pattern?



#43 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 06:51 PM

 

 

 

It is interesting to see which state-supported trains are at the bottom of the patronage scale, though.  And it reinforces again that three-a-week is stupid; the Cardinal and Sunset Limited would undoubtely have better PM/TM if they were daily.

 

 

Don't forget train miles would also go up as well. If the # of passenger miles increase by a factor of 7/3 the PM/TM is the same.


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/

 


#44 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 06:01 AM

Updated July-September '16:

https://www.fra.dot..../Details/L18616

 

They also list "PERCENTAGE OF FULLY ALLOCATED OPERATING COSTS COVERED BY PASSENGER RELATED REVENUE" (copied from chart header). One chart includes state revenue, one does not (for the LD trains the % are the same).


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/

 


#45 A Voice

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 08:03 AM

Table 1 is what I'd really like to see.....

 

Although nothing more than speculation, an immediate suspicion is the degree to which the better performing long-distance routes on a passenger mile per train mile basis are artificially limited by capacity.  



#46 neroden

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Posted 02 April 2017 - 08:25 AM

Table 1 is what I'd really like to see.....
 
Although nothing more than speculation, an immediate suspicion is the degree to which the better performing long-distance routes on a passenger mile per train mile basis are artificially limited by capacity.


Yeah, I don't know how the **** they have been getting away without publishing Table 1 -- or Table 3! -- for 10 years running.

I have to back-estimate the contents of Table 1 using Boardman's bar graph from 2013. Bluntly, there is NO short-term avoidable loss for most of the eastern trains; they are profitable. But for some reason Amtrak has not seen fit to notify the FRA of this fact, even though they're supposed to.
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#47 Anderson

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 02:18 AM

 

Table 1 is what I'd really like to see.....
 
Although nothing more than speculation, an immediate suspicion is the degree to which the better performing long-distance routes on a passenger mile per train mile basis are artificially limited by capacity.


Yeah, I don't know how the **** they have been getting away without publishing Table 1 -- or Table 3! -- for 10 years running.

I have to back-estimate the contents of Table 1 using Boardman's bar graph from 2013. Bluntly, there is NO short-term avoidable loss for most of the eastern trains; they are profitable. But for some reason Amtrak has not seen fit to notify the FRA of this fact, even though they're supposed to.

 

Painful though it is, I have to wonder if the FRA couldn't look at pursuing some sort of remedy against Amtrak for not providing this data (or indeed if there's some other way to pursue it).


Capitol Limited (7), CA Zephyr (4) Lake Shore Limited (1), Acela (2), NE Regional (2), Sliver Meteor (4)

Upcoming: Silver Meteor (1), Lake Shore Limited (1), SW Chief (2), MO River Runner (1), Texas Eagle (1)

Possibly Upcoming: Either Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (2) or Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (1)

#48 west point

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Posted 04 April 2017 - 11:53 AM

Several routes may need breakdown for sections of PM/TM.
Best example most familiar is Crescent. Would like to see breakdown of PM/TM Crescent north of ATL and south of ATL.
Must believe Amtrak probably can produce but will not each leg of a train.

Edited by west point, 04 April 2017 - 11:55 AM.


#49 Anderson

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 02:23 PM

One other issue with this metric: You have some trains, such as the NYP-ALB-SOMEWHERE ELSE trains.  A lot of pax on those trains board at NYP but the trains sort-of only "exist" past ALB...so you get some inflation of their PM/TM figures since, for example, NYP-HUD or NYP-ALB pax are removed.

This also doesn't give you a breakout between, for example, 94/95 and 66/67 (both of which are "Newport News" trains).  I can tell you that 66/67, in particular, is pretty much incapable of fitting 274 pax many days (let alone loading that many at NPN), so some of that total is going to be spill-over from 94/95.


Capitol Limited (7), CA Zephyr (4) Lake Shore Limited (1), Acela (2), NE Regional (2), Sliver Meteor (4)

Upcoming: Silver Meteor (1), Lake Shore Limited (1), SW Chief (2), MO River Runner (1), Texas Eagle (1)

Possibly Upcoming: Either Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (2) or Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (1)

#50 WoodyinNYC

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:30 PM

... The 1990 reroute together with certain, shall we say, prejudices at Amtrak HQ, did the BL in. They tried mightily to kill the BA at that time, which remains unexplained to me. We fought hard. But Amtrak is Amtrak. they'll just do whatever random thing they and their paymasters come up with.

Is "BA" a typo meant to be "BL"? Or is the "BA" some kind of ghost train, cuz I don't recognize it.



#51 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 05 April 2017 - 10:53 PM

 

... The 1990 reroute together with certain, shall we say, prejudices at Amtrak HQ, did the BL in. They tried mightily to kill the BA at that time, which remains unexplained to me. We fought hard. But Amtrak is Amtrak. they'll just do whatever random thing they and their paymasters come up with.

 

 

 

The CL goes through West Virginia. The BL didn't. The CL got preferential treatment. Coincidence? I think not. To a lesser degree, Byrd Crap.


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/

 


#52 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 20 May 2017 - 10:43 AM

These are my calculations based on NARP's 2016 statistics. See notes in file.

 

As said before, these are not dependent on ridership because the longer distance the more potential passengers and passenger miles but more train miles. 

 

Of the non Auto Train LD trains whose PM/TM was over 180, three are Eastern (SM, LSL, CL) and two are Western (CS, SWC).

 

I also listed miles per passenger for each LD train.

 

If you see any errors, please let me know.

 

I am totally shocked who is on the bottom!

Attached Files


Edited by Philly Amtrak Fan, 20 May 2017 - 10:43 AM.

Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/

 


#53 ehbowen

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 07:44 AM

 I am totally shocked who is on the bottom!


I note that the Cardinal and the Sunset Limited (east of San Antonio) regularly operate with significantly shorter consists (hence less potential capacity) than most other long-distance Amtrak trains.

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Visit Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables from the Streamliner era.


#54 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 12:09 PM

 

 I am totally shocked who is on the bottom!


I note that the Cardinal and the Sunset Limited (east of San Antonio) regularly operate with significantly shorter consists (hence less potential capacity) than most other long-distance Amtrak trains.

 

 

Why do these specific trains have shorter consists/fewer cars? Could it be because demand is low? Amtrak doesn't have enough cars to satisfy all of its demand. It's obvious more popular trains are going to get more cars but then the question becomes how much more. If we have an extra sleeper car, which would be more likely to fill, a fourth LSL sleeper or a second Cardinal sleeper? 


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/

 


#55 ehbowen

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 05:35 PM

Why do these specific trains have shorter consists/fewer cars? Could it be because demand is low? Amtrak doesn't have enough cars to satisfy all of its demand. It's obvious more popular trains are going to get more cars but then the question becomes how much more. If we have an extra sleeper car, which would be more likely to fill, a fourth LSL sleeper or a second Cardinal sleeper?

 
I would venture the opinion that a 3-day-a-week train is not a realistic transportation option in the minds of most normal people. As long as you have at least one-a-day, even if that "one" is at 4 in the morning, you can be aware of it and plan around it. But when you have to go from there to asking, "Does it run today at all? No? Then, when...Tuesday?" I would say that your train's general utility has dropped by a factor of at least ten.


broadside-1.jpg 16 inch Armor Piercing...When you care enough to send the very, VERY best!
Visit Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables from the Streamliner era.


#56 west point

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Posted 31 May 2017 - 06:19 PM

Why do these specific trains have shorter consists/fewer cars? Could it be because demand is low? Amtrak doesn't have enough cars to satisfy all of its demand. It's obvious more popular trains are going to get more cars but then the question becomes how much more. If we have an extra sleeper car, which would be more likely to fill, a fourth LSL sleeper or a second Cardinal sleeper?


This is pure speculation but the lengths of consists may be revenue driven. If my Amfleet can carry 60 people WASH <> NYP at $100.00 per passenger. That is $6,000 for a four hour trip. Same Amfleet on Crescent may take 12 hours 6 WASH <> ATL to get $6,000 ? ~678 miles. Now if Amtrak is equipment short then the WASH <> NYP would appear better since it could make a return trip in less than 10 hours.

The Meteor is reported to have the highest sleeper revenue per mile so that may be why it is first to get an extra sleeper ?

#57 WoodyinNYC

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Posted 01 June 2017 - 05:44 PM

 

... The 1990 reroute together ... did the BL in. They tried mightily to kill the BA at that time, which remains unexplained to me.

... is the BA some kind of ghost train, cuz I don't just know what you mean by BA.



#58 jis

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 11:35 AM

 

... The 1990 reroute together ... did the BL in. They tried mightily to kill the BA at that time, which remains unexplained to me.

... is the BA some kind of ghost train, cuz I don't just know what you mean by BA.
Engage brain for a moment and figure out what it could be a typo for :P If you can't figure it out, probably it doesn't matter ;)

#59 WoodyinNYC

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Posted 03 June 2017 - 07:21 PM

 

 

 

... The 1990 reroute together ... did the BL in. They tried mightily to kill the BA at that time, which remains unexplained to me.

... is the BA some kind of ghost train, cuz I don't just know what you mean by BA.
Engage brain for a moment and figure out what it could be a typo for :P If you can't figure it out, probably it doesn't matter ;)

I've assumed from the first that you meant to type BL. What left me confused was  "which remains unexplained to me." I thought, 'How can jis have never heard even plausible speculation as to why "they" tried mightily to kill the BL, so maybe he's talking about a whole different train.'

 

Of course, it could be that in my early stage dementia, I'm more and more literal minded. Nowadays my brain just doesn't deal very well with gaps or anomalies in information. :(

 

So it probably doesn't matter.


Edited by WoodyinNYC, 03 June 2017 - 11:38 PM.


#60 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 04 June 2017 - 06:26 PM

If the CL had been assigned to the B&O route and the BL to the NYC route, then my bet is that CL's performance would have been way worse than BL's on the B&O route. As it is CL's performance on the more favorable route isn't exactly stellar. So yeah, I agree. The 1990 reroute together with certain, shall we say, prejudices at Amtrak HQ, did the BL in. They tried mightily to kill the BA at that time, which remains unexplained to me. We fought hard. But Amtrak is Amtrak. they'll just do whatever random thing they and their paymasters come up with.

 

CL vs. BL. One goes through West Virginia, one doesn't. Which one do you think Congress (Byrd) would favor? 

 

Why exactly was the CL even started? The BL reasonably served WAS and also BAL to CHI since A-Day, why change it and take away the one seat ride between CHI and BAL? To save a couple of hours between CHI and WAS? Or to replace the Shenendoah?


Trains Traveled:
 
Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA) 
Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI)
Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS)
Lake Short Limited (NYP-CHI)
Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL)
Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX)
California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY)
City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL)

 

Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 

https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/

 





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