Airline Meals - Why Not?

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snvboy

Service Attendant
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
163
Location
Virginia
Why not use airline style meal service on the train?

I have had some pretty incredible meals in the air, and they have been pretty consistently decent. I've had some inedible meals on the train lately, and other than the steak they have been consistently inconsistent.

In the context of the New Menu discussion ( http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/66137-new-dining-car-menus-nov-4/) I've been thinking about this a bunch. As a fanboy, I think I've "let" Amtrak get away with some pretty shoddy meals. This fall I took a trip on the CZ/CS/EB with my best friend from high school. He was very, very disappointed by the meals. And I think the new menu is even worse.

How It Could Work:

Diner is restocked as cities with major airports. All meals come from the same central kitchen servicing the airlines. Meals are loaded into carts, carts are delivered to Amtrak station. Carts are held in a walk-in refrigerator unit (could be a 20' cargo reefer at the end of the platform). Meals are thawed & reheated on the train the same as on the airline.

Let's face it - just about EVERYTHING on the dining car menu, even on trains with a 'real' chef, are just being reheated. The breakfast potatoes come from a box. The pancakes and french toast come from a box. I'm pretty sure the omelets come from a box. The vegetables come from a can or a bag.

What Is Lost:

  1. any "fresh" griddle item: steaks & burgers. As best as I can tell and taste, these are the ONLY items on the dining car menu that ever get on a grill, and the ONLY items that even the least amount of culinary skill are put into on the train.
  2. large menu selection, but.... instead of having 1 menu with 3-4 entree choices per meal, you would have a different menu each day with 2-3 entree choices per meal.

What Is Gained:

  1. no need for "skilled" chef on the train. One less headcount also means another sleeper room available for revenue.
  2. variety!
  3. specialty meals - vegan, kosher, halal, etc. if pre-ordered.
  4. fresher food - i get fresh fruit/melon cups all the time on the airline. I've never seen such a thing on Amtrak.
  5. Consistency in food - because the meals are always reheated, the outcome is much more consistent. I'm REALLY thinking about the vegetables and breakfast potatoes, which currently depending on the time of your seating and the whims of the 'chef' are either pretty decent or downright disgusting.
  6. Consistency in options - no haggling over salads. It's either part of the meal or it isn't.
  7. Consistency in presentation - again, the airlines do a very good job an consistently plating their meals. On real china. Without a chef.
  8. At least one table in the diner - it seems that EVERY train I'm on has at least one booth in the diner occupied with forks, knives, napkins, and an bunch of other things to set the table. I've never seen a whole seat on the airplane taken up with all this junk.
  9. Faster service / more table turnover. If the airline can heat and serve 20 people (5 Amtrak tables) in first class in an hour, with a tiny galley on a 737, i'm guessing the train can have capacity for a lot more people in the diner. Expanded dining hours could be an option.
  10. IF (big IF) the meals can be reheated faster than the diners can consume them, it opens up a revenue opportunity for "at seat" or takeaway service to sell more meals without needing more tables.
  11. Much more granular capacity planning - when the breakfast potatoes come in a 10# box, if you have one person in the diner for breakfast you're tossing a LOT of product.
  12. Happier Employees. Do you think it's drudgery to eat the same menu for 4 days traveling coast to coast on Amtrak? Ever notice that the on-board employees are eating the SAME food as you are in the diner?

I'm sure there are other plusses and minus, so please feel free to contribute.
 
Quote:

"I have had some pretty incredible meals in the air"

Where and on which airline do you fly? At my income, I fly coach, and the last time I flew I got one very small packet of peanuts.
 
Quote:

"I have had some pretty incredible meals in the air"

Where and on which airline do you fly? At my income, I fly coach, and the last time I flew I got one very small packet of peanuts.
Wow, crabby....you got shortchanged. I got a packet of pretzels, and savored all ELEVEN of them!
 
To say "I fly coach, and the last time I flew I got one very small packet of peanuts." in the context of a discussion about food in the dining car is to compare apples and oranges. In terms of F&B, the peanuts and soda you get on the airline are a lot more than the NOTHING you get in coach on Amtrak.

​My point is that if the airlines can pull off good meals, usually with a choice of entree, usually with special needs being accommodated, in a roomette sized galley, without a "chef"... why not do the same on Amtrak?
 
Meals are included in the fare only in first class or sleeper on trains and in domestic first class on planes in the US these days. I am sure the OP is talking about food served in first class.

On international flights food is included in economy too which is passable and the food in business or first class is consistently better and more predictable in quality than in Amtrak Diners IMHO. And I am not even talking of top tier airlines like Singapore. I am talking about US carriers like United or Delta.
 
Shorter domestic flights these days only serve water or sometimes orange/apple juice and nothing else in coach. Longer flights often come with peanuts or pretzels and a full drink service. I would rarely purchase whatever the free snack is but I've often ordered a tapas snack pack or other box lunch when time was a bit too short or a connection was a bit too tight. Intercontinental coach flights usually come with several rounds of drinks, multiple meals, and free beer or wine on most carriers. Foreign airlines often include free cocktails as well.

That's not to say the meals are any good, but thankfully a growing number of airports now include at least a few fresh and tasty options among their various restaurants and shops. Even historically dumpy airports like IAH and LHR sell food that blows away anything on today's Amtrak. Personally I think free-at-seat snacks on Amtrak is probably a non-starter and wouldn't be any good anyhow. However, a free soft drink with buy-at-seat snacks and beer/wine/cocktails might end up making the ride more enjoyable while also helping Amtrak's bottom line. Or at least I'd be open to testing the idea and seeing how it goes.
 
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I've been lucky enough to fly international business and fly "transcontinental" first class in a three-class flight, which is touted as equivalent to international first. While the meals were good considering how they were prepared, and better than I expected, and were certainly not the mystery entrees that were that hallmark of the old coach meals, not one of them was as good as a mediocre dining car meal. The only dining car meal they beat was the emergency beef stew and rice.
 
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The domestic first class service transcontinental "ps" service or otherwise, comes nowhere near the international first class service no matter what the marketers might insist. Been there, done that.

As for international business class, it varies a lot by airline. But the specific comparison I have is between United Business-First and Amtrak Dining car fare. Amtrak used to be at par or a bit better, but now the 5 course meal in BF is generally better and more consistently so than Amtrak Diner. AFAIK Amtrak has never really served a five course meal in the Diner. International First Class has always been vastly better than Amtrak, at least as far back as 1989, when I flew First Class for the first time to Tokyo and then on to Hongkong on an award ticket. I will get some first hand experience on Luftahnsa in their A380 and B747-8 business class within a month or so, and will be happy to report back.
 
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Maybe not the meals, which are still reheated, but when I flew first class international there was caviar and Dom Perignon. Those would have been [correction] hard to screw up.
 
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I've been lucky enough to fly international business and fly "transcontinental" first class in a three-class flight, which is touted as equivalent to international first. While the meals were good considering how they were prepared, and better than I expected, and were certainly not the mystery entrees that were that hallmark of the old coach meals, not one of them was as good as a mediocre dining car meal. The only dining car meal they beat was the emergency beef stew and rice.
Can you explain what precisely you believe is better about Amtrak dining car food compared to international first class airline food? Because in my experience international first class food vastly exceeds the taste, quality, selection, and preparation of today's Amtrak meals.

Maybe not the meals, which are still reheated, but when I flew first class international there was caviar and Dom Perignon. Those would have been had to screw up.
Some airlines still serve caviar (I'd be happy to give you mine) along with unlimited Dom or Krug on premium routes, but it's becoming rarer over time.
 
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Maybe not the meals, which are still reheated, but when I flew first class international there was caviar and Dom Perignon. Those would have been had to screw up.
Some airlines still serve caviar (I'd be happy to give you mine) along with unlimited Dom or Krug on premium routes, but it's becoming rarer over time.
Those were the two options and I actually picked the NV Krug. It came in a split though.

Once I flew business class for a short haul flight, and all they had was Moët. However, I also got to use the lounge, which had lots of premium snacks and alcohol. Kind of put my visit to the United Club to shame.
 
United used to serve Beluga Caviar and Dom soon after boarding and before takeoff on their JFK - Tokyo flight in First Class. I don't think they do any such anymore. Indeed the EWR - NRT flight does not even have first class anymore! But then again back then there were no lie flat pods in first class either.
 
Maybe not the meals, which are still reheated, but when I flew first class international there was caviar and Dom Perignon. Those would have been had to screw up.
Some airlines still serve caviar (I'd be happy to give you mine) along with unlimited Dom or Krug on premium routes, but it's becoming rarer over time.
Those were the two options and I actually picked the NV Krug. It came in a split though.

Once I flew business class for a short haul flight, and all they had was Moët. However, I also got to use the lounge, which had lots of premium snacks and alcohol. Kind of put my visit to the United Club to shame.
Although I've enjoyed both I prefer Krug over Dom as well. Dom Perignon remains a great gift due to the near universal name recognition, but Dom's inexplicable 2003 release contradicted most of their marketing claims about vintages being based on quality of the harvest rather than sourcing contracts, and put their reputation behind that of top non-vintage options.

United used to serve Beluga Caviar and Dom soon after boarding and before takeoff on their JFK - Tokyo flight in First Class. I don't think they do any such anymore. Indeed the EWR - NRT flight does not even have first class anymore! But then again back then there were no lie flat pods in first class either.
What year was that? Did they serve it during the flight or only while they were on the ground?
 
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To say "I fly coach, and the last time I flew I got one very small packet of peanuts." in the context of a discussion about food in the dining car is to compare apples and oranges. In terms of F&B, the peanuts and soda you get on the airline are a lot more than the NOTHING you get in coach on Amtrak.
No. I was asking where you fly, and on what airline, to receive excellent meals ... compared to the food I've received.

I was not referencing food in the dining car.

Perhaps I was unclear in my comment. Mea culpa. :hi: ^_^ :hi:
 
Maybe not the meals, which are still reheated, but when I flew first class international there was caviar and Dom Perignon. Those would have been had to screw up.
Some airlines still serve caviar (I'd be happy to give you mine) along with unlimited Dom or Krug on premium routes, but it's becoming rarer over time.
Those were the two options and I actually picked the NV Krug. It came in a split though.

Once I flew business class for a short haul flight, and all they had was Moët. However, I also got to use the lounge, which had lots of premium snacks and alcohol. Kind of put my visit to the United Club to shame.
Although I've enjoyed both I prefer Krug over Dom as well. Dom Perignon remains a great gift due to the near universal name recognition, but Dom's inexplicable 2003 release contradicted most of their marketing claims about vintages being based on quality of the harvest rather than sourcing contracts, and put their reputation behind that of top non-vintage options.
I remember a friend of the family used to work for an airline and at disposal time the employees had the choice of all sorts of goodies from First and Business Class. My parents used to regularly get Dom Perignon in exchange for favors, and once even got Pol Roger Churchill, which is kind of obscure I suppose. However, I remember hearing about one airline employee who was ostensibly fired for taking milk home that was supposed to be disposed (even though it wasn't past its sell by date).
 
To say "I fly coach, and the last time I flew I got one very small packet of peanuts." in the context of a discussion about food in the dining car is to compare apples and oranges. In terms of F&B, the peanuts and soda you get on the airline are a lot more than the NOTHING you get in coach on Amtrak.
No. I was asking where you fly, and on what airline, to receive excellent meals ... compared to the food I've received.

I was not referencing food in the dining car.

Perhaps I was unclear in my comment. Mea culpa. :hi: ^_^ :hi:
No, crabby. You were perfectly clear and no mea culpa required. ;)
 
For reference, Amtrak's eggs for the scrambled eggs and the omelette are actual eggs, no additives; I've checked on this and managed to get information. There's your additional griddle item, on top of the steaks and burgers. I think the sausage also goes on the griddle. Eggs and sausage are significantly simpler to cook than steak, of course.
 
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To say "I fly coach, and the last time I flew I got one very small packet of peanuts." in the context of a discussion about food in the dining car is to compare apples and oranges. In terms of F&B, the peanuts and soda you get on the airline are a lot more than the NOTHING you get in coach on Amtrak.
No. I was asking where you fly, and on what airline, to receive excellent meals ... compared to the food I've received.

I was not referencing food in the dining car.

Perhaps I was unclear in my comment. Mea culpa. :hi: ^_^ :hi:
You were quite clear and quite off topic. The discussion is using airline logistics and methods to improve dining on Amtrak. Which is referencing food in the dining car. Yes, first class on the airlines gets better food than coach. They paid for it. The 'first class' Amtrak product I use the most is roomettes on LD trains. I'm certainly paying for the meals in the cost of that ticket - a ticket which often approaches or exceeds the price of the same route in first class on the airlines.

I find it very interesting that thus far all the comments have been around "is airline food worth eating", and not "could this be done" and would the pros/cons I identified actually work out that way.

Yes, airline food can range from strange to amazing. I've never had amazing on Amtrak. And it seems to keep getting worse as everything is cut, cut, cut. Stop cutting the quality, start evaluating the processes. In my mind, the airlines seem to have this process pretty well figured out.
 
To say "I fly coach, and the last time I flew I got one very small packet of peanuts." in the context of a discussion about food in the dining car is to compare apples and oranges. In terms of F&B, the peanuts and soda you get on the airline are a lot more than the NOTHING you get in coach on Amtrak.
No. I was asking where you fly, and on what airline, to receive excellent meals ... compared to the food I've received.

I was not referencing food in the dining car.

Perhaps I was unclear in my comment. Mea culpa. :hi: ^_^ :hi:
You were quite clear and quite off topic. The discussion is using airline logistics and methods to improve dining on Amtrak. Which is referencing food in the dining car. Yes, first class on the airlines gets better food than coach. They paid for it. The 'first class' Amtrak product I use the most is roomettes on LD trains. I'm certainly paying for the meals in the cost of that ticket - a ticket which often approaches or exceeds the price of the same route in first class on the airlines.

I find it very interesting that thus far all the comments have been around "is airline food worth eating", and not "could this be done" and would the pros/cons I identified actually work out that way.

Yes, airline food can range from strange to amazing. I've never had amazing on Amtrak. And it seems to keep getting worse as everything is cut, cut, cut. Stop cutting the quality, start evaluating the processes. In my mind, the airlines seem to have this process pretty well figured out.
I think crabby was just curious as to what airlines provide incredible meals. I was curious as well. Also, I'm not so sure about your ticket price comparison between Amtrak and first class on the airlines. I'm traveling from Chicago to Portland soon with a booked roomette for just over $400. First class airline (Delta) in the same time period is over $800.
 
I'm curious as well.

And I've had a top-5 steak on one of the Silvers before, so a great (perhaps falling short of amazing) meal is possible in the dining car. And railroads like Via prove that non-airline style meals can be amazing from a dining car. It's all in what the company wants to offer.
 
I had to really laugh hard yesterday when United announced the return of "free" low grade snacks in Coach and the media jumped on it like they had just cut fares by 90%. Don't you know William A. Patterson is going 'round and 'round somewhere in his grave!
 
For reference, Amtrak's eggs for the scrambled eggs and the omelette are actual eggs, no additives; I've checked on this and managed to get information. There's your additional griddle item, on top of the steaks and burgers. I think the sausage also goes on the griddle. Eggs and sausage are significantly simpler to cook than steak, of course.
Having experienced both actual eggs and liquid milk carton egg product on Amtrak Ive come to the conclusion that they probably stock both and then use the milk carton eggs as a backup if they run out or something unfortunate happens to the actual eggs. Once you know what to look for its easy to spot the differences.

I think crabby was just curious as to what airlines provide incredible meals. I was curious as well. Also, I'm not so sure about your ticket price comparison between Amtrak and first class on the airlines. I'm traveling from Chicago to Portland soon with a booked roomette for just over $400. First class airline (Delta) in the same time period is over $800.
In my experience Amtrak sleeping compartments are at least as much if not more expensive than domestic first class flights when comparing identical dates. One thing Ive noticed here on AU is that people who claim otherwise sometimes stack the deck by comparing an early Amtrak purchase with a last minute airline purchase, or by cherry picking dates and locations or by splitting a cheaper round trip airline ticket into multiple one way tickets. Personally I wish Amtrak was cheaper but in my experience thats rarely the case.

I've had a top-5 steak on one of the Silvers before, so a great (perhaps falling short of amazing) meal is possible in the dining car. And railroads like Via prove that non-airline style meals can be amazing from a dining car. It's all in what the company wants to offer.
Ive noticed that as the menu has shrunk over and over again most of the pro-AmChow supporters have been forced circle the wagons around a tiny little steak island surrounded by a sea of precooked frozen trash.

I had to really laugh hard yesterday when United announced the return of "free" low grade snacks in Coach and the media jumped on it like they had just cut fares by 90%. Don't you know William A. Patterson is going 'round and 'round somewhere in his grave!
Just imagine if it was Amtrak announcing free low grade snacks instead of United. Maybe Amtrak would have finally received some widespread positive press for a change. Too bad Boardman had already promised to slash and burn the food and beverage service into perpetual obscurity at the behest of bean counters and fellow party members.
 
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I think crabby was just curious as to what airlines provide incredible meals.
Exactly.
emo49.gif


And, as I was responding to snvboy's comment:

"I have had some pretty incredible meals in the air"

I wasn't 'off topic'.

I shall say no more.
 
For reference, Amtrak's eggs for the scrambled eggs and the omelette are actual eggs, no additives; I've checked on this and managed to get information. There's your additional griddle item, on top of the steaks and burgers. I think the sausage also goes on the griddle. Eggs and sausage are significantly simpler to cook than steak, of course.
Having experienced both actual eggs and liquid milk carton egg product on Amtrak Ive come to the conclusion that they probably stock both and then use the milk carton eggs as a backup if they run out or something unfortunate happens to the actual eggs. Once you know what to look for its easy to spot the differences.
I worked a contract job at a large workplace with multiple buildings and multiple cafeterias. And for clarification, it was not a place where the meals were free. I saw the pre-scrambled eggs coming out of carton and it wasn't bad. Personally I think it was probably designed as a time saver, and the "liquid eggs" were probably pasteurized.

While my experiences with Amtrak LD dining cars is limited, I have had experiences with the eggs. They seemed real enough to me, although it depended on who was making it. I thought it was a pretty good bargain when beverages were included in the price (for coach passengers). For $3.50 my kid's meal came with beverages, including milk and juice. I even got offered a cup of coffee to go as I left. Of course while I thought it was a good deal, it was probably a missing revenue stream for Amtrak.

My last breakfast was on the CS while we were stopped in Sacramento. All four at the table ordered the same thing - the scrambled egg breakfast and coffee. I guess it was the cheapest thing on the menu.
 
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