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Andrew

OBS Chief
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May 3, 2013
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Metro North recently began using M8 rail cars in their fleet just a few years a go.

Why didn't they go with double decker coaches being pulled or pushed by electric locomotives for service between Grand Central Terminal in New York City and New Haven, Connecticut?
 
Metro North recently began using M8 rail cars in their fleet just a few years a go.

Why didn't they go with double decker coaches being pulled or pushed by electric locomotives for service between Grand Central Terminal in New York City and New Haven, Connecticut?

Metro-North doesn't have a large fleet of locomotives. A bunch of double decker cars wouldn't do much good without an equally large order of locomotives.
 
They seem to be familiar with emu operation, so why change what works?
 
Single-level coaches should continue to operate between Grand Central Terminal, and Stamford, Connecticut.

But, a 10 double decker coach train with a Sprinter Locomotive at the North End of the train-set could have potentially increased seating capacity by 20% or so--which is a lot during Weekday Rush Hours and during busy Holiday weekends.
 
Sprinters do not operate of third rail and even if they could you would need at least one on each end of train to prevent gapping.

the Locomotive hauled trains are also about 60% slower getting out of each station.
 
Sprinters do not operate of third rail and even if they could you would need at least one on each end of train to prevent gapping.

the Locomotive hauled trains are also about 60% slower getting out of each station.
But if they pulled double decker coaches, that could potentially do a lot to solve rush hour crowding issues as well as increase ticket revenue. Perhaps the MTA already considered this option?
 
I would guess that if they wanted to go double decker they would use something similar to the cars used in the metra electric district, specifically the new ones.
 
I would guess that if they wanted to go double decker they would use something similar to the cars used in the metra electric district, specifically the new ones.
Unlikely. Since none of them could get into Grand Central. Actually I would say absolutely zero chance. Also they would have to be modified to operate off of third rail.

The only double deckers that have a chance of fitting through the tunnels into Grand Central Terminal are the NJT MLVs. If they ever create a power car for those that operates on third rail that would work. NJT is in the process of getting power cars for those powered by overhead catenary for their own use.
 
I would guess that if they wanted to go double decker they would use something similar to the cars used in the metra electric district, specifically the new ones.
Unlikely. Since none of them could get into Grand Central. Actually I would say absolutely zero chance. Also they would have to be modified to operate off of third rail.

The only double deckers that have a chance of fitting through the tunnels into Grand Central Terminal are the NJT MLVs. If they ever create a power car for those that operates on third rail that would work. NJT is in the process of getting power cars for those powered by overhead catenary for their own use.
So, what you are saying that if Metro North does end up using double decker coaches, that they would go with EMU coaches--not ones with locomotives pulling or pushing them?
 
Well they already have push-pulls with dual mode locomotives providing power. What they have proposed so far, specially on the New Haven Line, is to get MLV-like cars to replace or augment the current Comet sets that are used in push pull service.

If NJT goes through with the development of MLV EMUs, which they are seriously working on, then that opens up a possibility of creating a third rail version of those MLV power cars. But there are lots of if ... if ... if involved.
 
Sprinters do not operate of third rail and even if they could you would need at least one on each end of train to prevent gapping.

the Locomotive hauled trains are also about 60% slower getting out of each station.
I'd bet that the engineers that Siemens employs are intelligent enough to figure out how to manufacture a third rail/catenary electric Cities Sprinter Locomotive.

And, if these same locomotives could pull double decker coaches, there is potentially an enormous amount of additional revenue that Metro North could receive over the 35 or perhaps 40ish years that the coaches would be in revenue service.
 
Well they already have push-pulls with dual mode locomotives providing power. What they have proposed so far, specially on the New Haven Line, is to get MLV-like cars to replace or augment the current Comet sets that are used in push pull service.

If NJT goes through with the development of MLV EMUs, which they are seriously working on, then that opens up a possibility of creating a third rail version of those MLV power cars. But there are lots of if ... if ... if involved.
Wouldn't the proposed MLV's also get used on the Hudson Line to and from Poughkeepsie, New York? Also, does Metro North operate their locomotives in diesel or electric mode between Grand Central and the start of the high speed tracks after the switches at 57th street?

I seem to remember reading in 2010 that MLV's can't have third rail shoes...http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/nyregion/16double.html?_r=0

So, I guess the M8 replacements will not be able to have electric locomotive train-sets with 10 double decker coaches--which is what I was originally picturing and is what is currently very common between NYC and Trenton, NJ, on New Jersey Transit.
 
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except if a dual mode diesel gaps you use the 12 cylinders to get out of gap, with a all electric power car your up the creek without....
What do you mean?
In other words, if the locomotive loses power due to not being on a third rail segment, the engine can be briefly activated to move the train back onto the third rail. With an all-electric locomotive, there is no "backup" if that should happen. A solution is either battery backup or a really small diesel engine, just enough to shove the train onto the next gap, but that adds complexity and I don't think has ever really been done.
 
except if a dual mode diesel gaps you use the 12 cylinders to get out of gap, with a all electric power car your up the creek without....
What do you mean?
In other words, if the locomotive loses power due to not being on a third rail segment, the engine can be briefly activated to move the train back onto the third rail. With an all-electric locomotive, there is no "backup" if that should happen. A solution is either battery backup or a really small diesel engine, just enough to shove the train onto the next gap, but that adds complexity and I don't think has ever really been done.
Maybe use energy storage?
 
1.What is the typical length of train-sets?

2. When traveling southbound into the Park Avenue Tunnels, how does an engineer in a cab car put the Genesis Locomotive into E-mode from diesel?
 
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Bombardier trains are usuall 7 cars plus engine only one train has 8 cars , cars are 85 feet long engine is 69 feet.

Engineer has selector switch in cab car 3 positions , Electric - Off - Diesel
Thanks, but what about New Haven line Trains?

Also, within the locomotive, does the engineer have a manual giving him or her specifications of the train length and locomotive height and length, etc?
 
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all cars are 85 feet and max train length is 10 or 12 but most trains ar 7 or 8 cars.

no, qualifications dictate knowledge of what your doing on railroad.

The yard sheet and conductor are suppose to inform engineer of car count and unusual circumstances.
 
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all cars are 85 feet and max train length is 10 or 12 but most trains ar 7 or 8 cars.

no, qualifications dictate knowledge of what your doing on railroad.

The yard sheet and conductor are suppose to inform engineer of car count and unusual circumstances.
Do engineers who drive the Genesis Locomotive wear hearing protection?
 
trains are not driven but it is called operate a train.

and yes engineers have choice to do so, ear plugs are available.
If you had to predict, do you believe that the Genesis Locomotive will get replaced by the Siemens' Charger, or Bombardier ALP-45DP?
 
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