Acela train for NYP<->BOS trips added on Saturdays

Shop deals on ebay
Advertise with us
shop deals on amazon
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

afigg

Engineer
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
5,896
Location
Virginia
Amtrak is adding an Acela train on Saturdays between BOS and NYP. News release on the added train is quoted below. For those wondering about the Shore Line East capacity constraint of 39 total trains a day, Amtrak runs fewer NYP<->BOS trains than that on weekends. Checking the current prices, appears there is an opportunity to scoop up NYP-BOS Acela tickets at low bucket prices for the newly added Acelas this weekend and following weekends. Although the low bucket for NYP-BOS Acelas is not cheap. :(

I have noticed in recent years on the southern end of the NEC fuller trains and higher bucket prices further ahead of the trip, suggesting a sizable increase in Saturday (and Sunday) business for personal travel on the NEC. Unfortunately Amtrak does not break out ridership stats for the NEC by weekdays and weekends, so we don't have visibility into whether NEC ridership on Saturdays and Sundays for Regionals and Acelas has had a larger increase in recent years than on weekdays (working weekdays to be specific).

News Release: Amtrak Expands Weekend Acela Express Service

NEW YORK – Weekend travelers have another high-speed option for Northeast Corridor service between Boston and New York, as Amtrak expands its popular Acela Express service between the two cities. Tickets are now available at Amtrak.com, the Amtrak mobile apps and other booking channels.

Train # 2295 is a new morning departure from Boston, leaving South Station at 7:35 a.m. with a scheduled arrival at Penn Station New York at 11:15 a.m. This Saturday-only service provides additional flexibility and convenience for customers when making their travel plans.

A new northbound train (#2260) will depart New York at 4:55 p.m., providing passengers with an evening travel option to Boston.

“These additional trains reflect the value passengers place on safe, reliable, high-speed service on the Northeast Corridor,” said Mike DeCataldo, Senior Vice President and General Manager of Northeast Corridor Operations. “Our passengers want more service and more frequent travel options and wherever we can accommodate that demand we’re going to do it.”

In an effort to meet the increasing demand for high-speed rail service and provide additional capacity on the Northeast Corridor, Amtrak is also working to acquire new trainsets that will supplement and eventually replace the existing Acela equipment.
Click to expand...
 
And they're still keeping 2251? So 2 southbound Acelas depart Boston within 35 minutes of each other...interesting. I've only ridden the Acela twice, and both times it was 2251 from Boston to New York. I know the conductor on both trips kept mentioning that this was a sold out train, but is there really that much demand?
 
chrsjrcj said:
And they're still keeping 2251? So 2 southbound Acelas depart Boston within 35 minutes of each other...interesting. I've only ridden the Acela twice, and both times it was 2251 from Boston to New York. I know the conductor on both trips kept mentioning that this was a sold out train, but is there really that much demand?
Click to expand...
May not be a bad idea. 2295 terminates in NYP, so 2251 will be freed up of some of the shorter distance riders, and will allow for more seating for longer distance passengers. Only time will tell.
 
The cure for what ails Amtrak is more Amtrak.

With the new trains, crew costs, fuel, and capital charges for the equipment will go up. (Wear n tear is not much of a concern for a fleet to be retired within a decade or less.)

Expenses at Penn Station, South Station, and points in between will increase so slightly as to be unmeasurable. Likewise any added costs of using the reservation system and for advertising will be minuscule.

So overhead -- from marketing to Boardman's secretary's salary to the labor relations staff to the interest and principal payments on the debt (roughly $160 million Fiscal 2016 and $198 million Fiscal 2017, and paid from the federal funding) -- will not be affected.

But now the bookkeepers can divide Amtrak's substantial overhead over a few hundred more train miles every day. In this way, a few bucks of overhead will be assigned to the new trains and lifted off the existing trains, reducing their losses in a small but worthwhile way.

Last year or so, Amtrak added late, late daily departures out of NY Penn and Union Station in D.C. So that was another case of a couple of Acelas lifting a piece of overhead off the rest of the system.

Very small steps, but the right way to go.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
chrsjrcj said:
And they're still keeping 2251? So 2 southbound Acelas depart Boston within 35 minutes of each other...interesting. I've only ridden the Acela twice, and both times it was 2251 from Boston to New York. I know the conductor on both trips kept mentioning that this was a sold out train, but is there really that much demand?
Click to expand...
That is what the reservation systems shows for BOS to NYP on September 12. #2295 departing 7:35 AM, #2251 departing 8:10 AM, then #99 at 8:40 AM. What it says is that there are a lot of well-off or higher income people in Boston who want to the travel to NYC on Saturday morning. Many of then are likely spending Saturday night in NYC, then back to Boston on Sunday.

What we should remember is that the Acela only has 303 seats and 43 of those are first class with 260 BC seats. An 8 car Regional with 6 coach cars (72 seats) and 1 BC class car has 494 seats. Make it a 9 car Regional with 7 coach cars and there are 566 seats. If the BOS to NYP trip times for the Acela ever get down to 3:15 or 3:10 and Amtrak buys 28 circa 425 seat capacity Acela IIs and can run more trains on the SLE and NHV line, the demand is likely there for a substantial increase in BOS <-> NYP traffic on Friday nights and Saturdays with trips back in both directions on Sundays. Although the traffic load will be heavier going to NYC on Friday & Saturdays and back to Boston on Sundays.
 
I had been meaning to post this but work is a little crazy right now. According to an Amtrak Engineer on the NEC Facebook page these trains hadn't been put out for bid to T&E crews as of last Saturday when the schedules were made public. It should be noted that 2260 origins at WAS.
 
west point said:
Overhead costs? will be almost a wash so operating costs will be added. Same overhead costs whether one train or 20.
Click to expand...
Same total overhead costs. Lower overhead costs per train mile when there are more train miles.

(It's Neroden who thinks the overhead is allocated by train miles. That I can't find a number for total train miles in Amtrak's reports does suggest this is a figure a specialized accountant could use to good effect. LOL.. But the principle would remain if the fixed overhead were allocated by total passengers per month or whatever.)

Try it this way. The numerator is the fixed overhead. The denominator is the total train miles (or whatever). So fixed overhead divided by a larger denominator gives a smaller number, less overhead per unit, a good thing. The bookkeeping on each and every train is better when the denominator gets bigger, with the fixed costs spread around a bit more, even if it is only one run each direction on a weekend.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
afigg said:
chrsjrcj said:
And they're still keeping 2251? So 2 southbound Acelas depart Boston within 35 minutes of each other...interesting. I've only ridden the Acela twice, and both times it was 2251 from Boston to New York. I know the conductor on both trips kept mentioning that this was a sold out train, but is there really that much demand?
Click to expand...
That is what the reservation systems shows for BOS to NYP on September 12. #2295 departing 7:35 AM, #2251 departing 8:10 AM, then #99 at 8:40 AM. What it says is that there are a lot of well-off or higher income people in Boston who want to the travel to NYC on Saturday morning. Many of then are likely spending Saturday night in NYC, then back to Boston on Sunday.

What we should remember is that the Acela only has 303 seats and 43 of those are first class with 260 BC seats. An 8 car Regional with 6 coach cars (72 seats) and 1 BC class car has 494 seats. Make it a 9 car Regional with 7 coach cars and there are 566 seats. If the BOS to NYP trip times for the Acela ever get down to 3:15 or 3:10 and Amtrak buys 28 circa 425 seat capacity Acela IIs and can run more trains on the SLE and NHV line, the demand is likely there for a substantial increase in BOS <-> NYP traffic on Friday nights and Saturdays with trips back in both directions on Sundays. Although the traffic load will be heavier going to NYC on Friday & Saturdays and back to Boston on Sundays.
Click to expand...
I like that thinking, but what about the 39 train a day limit in CT? Diesel and coaches via the Inland Route seem to be the short-term answer to increased capacity east of New York. But then there's also a lack of available slots on MN, isn't there?
 
Palmetto said:
afigg said:
chrsjrcj said:
And they're still keeping 2251? So 2 southbound Acelas depart Boston within 35 minutes of each other...interesting. I've only ridden the Acela twice, and both times it was 2251 from Boston to New York. I know the conductor on both trips kept mentioning that this was a sold out train, but is there really that much demand?
Click to expand...
That is what the reservation systems shows for BOS to NYP on September 12. #2295 departing 7:35 AM, #2251 departing 8:10 AM, then #99 at 8:40 AM. What it says is that there are a lot of well-off or higher income people in Boston who want to the travel to NYC on Saturday morning. Many of then are likely spending Saturday night in NYC, then back to Boston on Sunday.

What we should remember is that the Acela only has 303 seats and 43 of those are first class with 260 BC seats. An 8 car Regional with 6 coach cars (72 seats) and 1 BC class car has 494 seats. Make it a 9 car Regional with 7 coach cars and there are 566 seats. If the BOS to NYP trip times for the Acela ever get down to 3:15 or 3:10 and Amtrak buys 28 circa 425 seat capacity Acela IIs and can run more trains on the SLE and NHV line, the demand is likely there for a substantial increase in BOS <-> NYP traffic on Friday nights and Saturdays with trips back in both directions on Sundays. Although the traffic load will be heavier going to NYC on Friday & Saturdays and back to Boston on Sundays.
Click to expand...
I like that thinking, but what about the 39 train a day limit in CT? Diesel and coaches via the Inland Route seem to be the short-term answer to increased capacity east of New York. But then there's also a lack of available slots on MN, isn't there?
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that it is a Saturday. Not as many trains are running as a weekday.
 
Palmetto said:
I like that thinking, but what about the 39 train a day limit in CT? Diesel and coaches via the Inland Route seem to be the short-term answer to increased capacity east of New York. But then there's also a lack of available slots on MN, isn't there?
Click to expand...
Saturday is well under the 39 trains a day SLE limit. With the added Acela train on Saturday, there are 12 trains on Saturday each way between BOS and NYP with 9 Regional and 3 Acelas. On Sunday, there are 14 NYP <-> BOS trains, 9 Regionals and 5 Acelas.
As for the Inland Route, there are plans to restore Inland Route Regionals, but those plans are tied into MA and CT interest in NHV-SPG-BOS service and as part of a central New England rail study, long term proposals for WOR to SPG track upgrades. Even if CT & MA were to complete the upgrade of the NHV-SPG corridor, MA funds double tracking and improvements for the CSX tracks from SPG to WOR, an Inland Route Regional will still be slower than a NEC Regional for trips to NYP from BOS.
 
The inland route Regionals will never be time competitive with the Shore Line ones either. They will however provide for some important single seat ride city pairs. That is what makes them primarily desirable, not providing additional NYP - BOS capacity per se.
 
Acela150 said:
I had been meaning to post this but work is a little crazy right now. According to an Amtrak Engineer on the NEC Facebook page these trains hadn't been put out for bid to T&E crews as of last Saturday when the schedules were made public. It should be noted that 2260 origins at WAS.
Click to expand...
They are probably not going up for bid anytime soon.
 
There should be enough service on the inland route to provide qualified crews for the times that the shore line is blocked for any reason. As of now it is impossible to route regional trains with the loss of that revenue but almost all the expenses of cancelled shore line trains. So both inland and Hartford - Providence routes need eventual Amtrak service.
 
west point said:
There should be enough service on the inland route to provide qualified crews for the times that the shore line is blocked for any reason. As of now it is impossible to route regional trains with the loss of that revenue but almost all the expenses of cancelled shore line trains. So both inland and Hartford - Providence routes need eventual Amtrak service.
Click to expand...
It is not impossible as CSX has allowed it on occasions. There are a few employees still qualified on the B&A out of BOS and ALB. SPG may still have one person qualified.

If the need arose and there aren't enough qualified employees, CSX will provide pilots if there is enough notice.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thirdrail7 said:
Acela150 said:
I had been meaning to post this but work is a little crazy right now. According to an Amtrak Engineer on the NEC Facebook page these trains hadn't been put out for bid to T&E crews as of last Saturday when the schedules were made public. It should be noted that 2260 origins at WAS.
Click to expand...
They are probably not going up for bid anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Any reason why they wouldn't put something like this out for bid for T&E crews??
 
jis said:
The inland route Regionals will never be time competitive with the Shore Line ones either. They will however provide for some important single seat ride city pairs. That is what makes them primarily desirable, not providing additional NYP - BOS capacity per se.
Click to expand...
The situation here seems complex. On the one hand, you're right; on the other hand, the "through-NYP" markets are not trivial. Given that Amtrak wants to allocate the vast majority of extra Shore Line slots to the Acelas (I suspect a Regional or two will get allocated regardless of the plans on paper right now) then serving some of those markets means either terminating trains at NHV or operating via the Inland Route to/from BOS.
 
It would be interesting to see the boat count thru each of the bridges. That is both number not requiring a draw and number requiring a draw. Also how seasonal is the traffic ? Anyone know if lift operators have to log all transits ?.
 
As I understand it, the general protocol is that the bridges stay open for river traffic as default. They are closed only when a train comes by and needs to get across. So they probably better count of trains than of river crafts. :)
 
Acela150 said:
Thirdrail7 said:
Acela150 said:
I had been meaning to post this but work is a little crazy right now. According to an Amtrak Engineer on the NEC Facebook page these trains hadn't been put out for bid to T&E crews as of last Saturday when the schedules were made public. It should be noted that 2260 origins at WAS.
Click to expand...
They are probably not going up for bid anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Any reason why they wouldn't put something like this out for bid for T&E crews??
Click to expand...
It's a "one off" job that has been added to an established rotation. Typically, they wouldn't build it into an assignment until they rearrange the assignments in their entirety. In the meantime, it will remain what it is now...a must fill for the extra list.

jis said:
Or getting the silly 39 train limit re-negotiated. There is no real necessity for that other than to salve the inflated egos of boat owners.
Click to expand...
The limit (which does not take into account other train traffic) was set based upon how long the bridge would have to remain closed if the traffic exceeded these numbers.

From a town point of view, you have a railroad that passes through your town that generates noise and doesn't serve your community. The same town has a marina, that sits on the other side of the railroad bridge. Unlike the railroad bridge, the marina generates a ton of revenue for your town in the form of taxes, shops, jobs, docking fees, parking fees and tourist dollars.

If you were the mayor of the town, wouldn't you fight to make sure that marina was well served?
 
Thirdrail7 said:
Acela150 said:
Thirdrail7 said:
Acela150 said:
I had been meaning to post this but work is a little crazy right now. According to an Amtrak Engineer on the NEC Facebook page these trains hadn't been put out for bid to T&E crews as of last Saturday when the schedules were made public. It should be noted that 2260 origins at WAS.
Click to expand...
They are probably not going up for bid anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Any reason why they wouldn't put something like this out for bid for T&E crews??
Click to expand...
It's a "one off" job that has been added to an established rotation. Typically, they wouldn't build it into an assignment until they rearrange the assignments in their entirety. In the meantime, it will remain what it is now...a must fill for the extra list.

jis said:
Or getting the silly 39 train limit re-negotiated. There is no real necessity for that other than to salve the inflated egos of boat owners.
Click to expand...
The limit (which does not take into account other train traffic) was set based upon how long the bridge would have to remain closed if the traffic exceeded these numbers.

From a town point of view, you have a railroad that passes through your town that generates noise and doesn't serve your community. The same town has a marina, that sits on the other side of the railroad bridge. Unlike the railroad bridge, the marina generates a ton of revenue for your town in the form of taxes, shops, jobs, docking fees, parking fees and tourist dollars.

If you were the mayor of the town, wouldn't you fight to make sure that marina was well served?
Click to expand...
Makes sense. Thank you for the useful insight! :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top