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Discontinued Amtrak Routes: Any Future?


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Poll: Discontinued Amtrak Routes

Which of these route(s) would you most like to return? Choose as many as you wish.

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#21 jebr

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 05:20 PM

 

 

I think the folks in Virginia and West Virginia will throw a major tantrum if anyone tries to divert the Cardinal away from them,

Worth noting -- the ridership for the Cardinal is mostly
* Chicago - everywhere as far as Charlottesville
* Charlottesville - NY/DC
Charlottesville is arguably the strongest city for the Cardinal, and the online traffic between there and Chicago is strong. You don't want to divert it.

 

 

Is Charlottesville Philadelphia? I would think CHI-PHL would be way more important than CHI-Charlottesville (plus, they can always take a train to WAS and connect with the CL and it might be close to if not faster than the Cardinal).

 

PHL is the 3rd busiest Amtrak station. HAR and Lancaster are in the top 25. No city in VA is in the top 25 unless you count DC. And West Virginia? Does anyone outside of West Virginia care about West Virginia?

 

http://www.amtrak.co...d=1246041980246

 

There's also a lot more trains to take from PHL, and even HAR and Lancaster have fairly frequent service, a lot of which is commuter or "extended commuter" service. It's not necessarily true that those same people would use Amtrak for a long-distance or overnight service to Chicago.

 

The same argument that you're making for Charlottesville could be made for PHL as well - just take one of the numerous regionals down to WAS and get on the Capitol Limited. Or take the Pennsylvanian and have a few hours to relax in Pittsburgh before going on to Chicago. In fact, this argument can be made for every single city on a proposed restored Broadway Limited route. This cannot be said for every community on the Cardinal route; in fact, everyone between IND and Charlottesville has to either drive to another station that does have daily service or hope that the schedule lines up for their trip.

 

I'm not sold that there's a big enough market in CHI - PHL to create a second daily train that could be closely mirrored by having some through cars on the Pennsylvanian. I'd much rather see money and political capital spent by having through cars on the Pennsylvanian (thus allowing a one-seat ride for customers) and making the Cardinal daily (improving an already known strong market for long distance travelers, adding an additional daily frequency for the extended commuter service form Charlottesville to NYC, and creating further connections by having daily service to WV, VA, and KY communities that are not already served by a daily train.



#22 Bob Dylan

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 05:30 PM

Don't count on any support from the State of Ohio as long as John Kasich is Governor.

Tom

He killed the CCC Route right?

And this guy is considered, along with Bush, the Sensible Moderate in the Circus that is The Donald,Snow White and the 15 Dwarfs Show!! 😢

Edited by jimhudson, 18 August 2015 - 05:34 PM.

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#23 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 05:31 PM

 

 

 

I think the folks in Virginia and West Virginia will throw a major tantrum if anyone tries to divert the Cardinal away from them,

Worth noting -- the ridership for the Cardinal is mostly
* Chicago - everywhere as far as Charlottesville
* Charlottesville - NY/DC
Charlottesville is arguably the strongest city for the Cardinal, and the online traffic between there and Chicago is strong. You don't want to divert it.

 

 

Is Charlottesville Philadelphia? I would think CHI-PHL would be way more important than CHI-Charlottesville (plus, they can always take a train to WAS and connect with the CL and it might be close to if not faster than the Cardinal).

 

PHL is the 3rd busiest Amtrak station. HAR and Lancaster are in the top 25. No city in VA is in the top 25 unless you count DC. And West Virginia? Does anyone outside of West Virginia care about West Virginia?

 

http://www.amtrak.co...d=1246041980246

 

There's also a lot more trains to take from PHL, and even HAR and Lancaster have fairly frequent service, a lot of which is commuter or "extended commuter" service. It's not necessarily true that those same people would use Amtrak for a long-distance or overnight service to Chicago.

 

The same argument that you're making for Charlottesville could be made for PHL as well - just take one of the numerous regionals down to WAS and get on the Capitol Limited. Or take the Pennsylvanian and have a few hours to relax in Pittsburgh before going on to Chicago. In fact, this argument can be made for every single city on a proposed restored Broadway Limited route. This cannot be said for every community on the Cardinal route; in fact, everyone between IND and Charlottesville has to either drive to another station that does have daily service or hope that the schedule lines up for their trip.

 

 

And between IND and Charlottesville would be Cincinnati and a bunch of irrelevant towns. Maybe expand the "Hoosier State" to Cincinnati and put CHI-IND-CIN on a better schedule.

 

They canceled Akron and Youngstown service and I'm sure they had more passengers than those tiny West Virginia towns do now.

 

Hey, I would love to have the BL and the Cardinal but if I had one you bet I'd rather have the BL. I think I deserve the right to a direct connection from PHL to CHI (that doesn't take 26 hours) than Thurmond West Virginia does. I think Harrisburg, Lancaster, Altoona, Akron, and Youngstown deserve a direct connection to CHI more than Thurmond does.


Trains Traveled: Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA), Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI), Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS), Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), , Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL), Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX), California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY), City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL), Texas Eagle (CHI-DAL)
Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
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#24 jebr

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 05:57 PM

No one particular individual has any more "right" to train service (or a particular train service) than any other particular individual. Philadelphia may be more deserving of it than many of the smaller communities that are on the Cardinal's route, but Philadelphia (and all the other towns covered by a restored Broadway Limited) have other train options. Many towns on the Cardinal's route do not.

 

If I had to make the (false) choice between the Broadway Limited and the Cardinal, I'd keep the Cardinal. I also don't live in or near any of the towns on either the Broadway Limited or Cardinal's route; if I lived in Philadelphia (or Harrisburg or another town on the Broadway Limited line) I may very well want a Broadway Limited over the Cardinal. But, as someone not on either route, I'd much rather have the Cardinal + through cars on the Pennsylvanian to give that 19-hour one-seat ride to Philadelphia from Chicago and still have service/expand to daily service to the communities on the Cardinal's route than either just the Cardinal or just the Broadway Limited.



#25 jis

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 05:59 PM

Hey, I would love to have the BL and the Cardinal but if I had one you bet I'd rather have the BL. I think I deserve the right to a direct connection from PHL to CHI (that doesn't take 26 hours) than Thurmond West Virginia does. I think Harrisburg, Lancaster, Altoona, Akron, and Youngstown deserve a direct connection to CHI more than Thurmond does.

But you already have trains to take from Philly to Chicago three different ways in addition to the Cardinal.

You don't have any more right to anything than the folks in Charlottesville. So get rid of that delusion ASAP.
 
I am all for restoring direct connectivity from New York to Chicago via Pittsburgh, however, not at the cost of losing the Cardinal. That will not happen and I am sure most people will oppose your position.


Edited by jis, 18 August 2015 - 06:23 PM.


#26 afigg

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 06:10 PM

He killed the CCC Route right?

And this guy is considered, along with Bush, the Sensible Moderate in the Circus that is The Donald,Snow White and the 15 Dwarfs Show!! 😢

Yes, Gov. Kasich killed the 3C corridor route. Kasich also went to considerable lengths to try to kill the Cincinnati streetcar project. So long as Kasich is Governor of Ohio, don't expect any funding or support from the state for passenger rail at all.

#27 Ryan

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 06:21 PM

And between IND and Charlottesville would be Cincinnati and a bunch of irrelevant towns.


Where's "irrelevant" is defined as "any place that I don't personally live".

Stop being selfish, if you want to promote more rail service, go for it, but not at the expense of places that already have it.
 
 

And this guy is considered, along with Bush, the Sensible Moderate in the Circus that is The Donald,Snow White and the 15 Dwarfs Show!!


Way more sensible than Bush, and definitely the most sensible.
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#28 jis

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 06:28 PM

At the end of the day though, at the present time I tend to agree with this p9ece of gem from DA....

Until I see a shiny unicorn shaking its glittery butt down the track I'm not counting on a single long distance route ever coming back.

 

I suspect at most the through  cars from Pennsy to Cap might happen. Beyond that well... the unicorn thing kicks in definitely.



#29 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:02 PM

 

And between IND and Charlottesville would be Cincinnati and a bunch of irrelevant towns.


Where's "irrelevant" is defined as "any place that I don't personally live".

Stop being selfish, if you want to promote more rail service, go for it, but not at the expense of places that already have it.
 
 

 

How about irrelevant meaning any town with less than 100,000 people living within a 20 mile radius of it?


Trains Traveled: Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA), Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI), Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS), Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), , Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL), Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX), California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY), City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL), Texas Eagle (CHI-DAL)
Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/


#30 Caesar La Rock

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:03 PM

I can't expect any of these routes to be restored, until a favorable congress comes into play. Who knows when that will happen, maybe next year, maybe 10 years from now. Nobody knows, it's not like we can do a full Nostradamus prediction and say all of these routes will be restored by 2018.


Edited by THE CJ, 18 August 2015 - 07:04 PM.


#31 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:08 PM

 

Hey, I would love to have the BL and the Cardinal but if I had one you bet I'd rather have the BL. I think I deserve the right to a direct connection from PHL to CHI (that doesn't take 26 hours) than Thurmond West Virginia does. I think Harrisburg, Lancaster, Altoona, Akron, and Youngstown deserve a direct connection to CHI more than Thurmond does.

But you already have trains to take from Philly to Chicago three different ways in addition to the Cardinal.

You don't have any more right to anything than the folks in Charlottesville. So get rid of that delusion ASAP.
 
I am all for restoring direct connectivity from New York to Chicago via Pittsburgh, however, not at the cost of losing the Cardinal. That will not happen and I am sure most people will oppose your position.

 

 

Three different ways but all require connections. And the people in Harrisburg and Lancaster have only two options while the people in Altoona and Johnstown are stuck waiting in Pittsburgh's station either from 8:05 to 11:59pm or between 5:05 and 7:30am (assuming on time trains).

 

I would say if twice as many people travel from CHI to PHL than CHI and Charlottesville, then PHL deserves a direct line to Chicago more than Charlottesville. I would guess based on station numbers that more people go from CHI to HAR or CHI to Lancaster, PA than CHI to Charlottesville. No one wants to have to change trains but shouldn't a train carrier try to maximize the number of passengers with a direct connection? 


Trains Traveled: Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA), Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI), Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS), Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), , Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL), Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX), California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY), City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL), Texas Eagle (CHI-DAL)
Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/


#32 Ryan

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:15 PM

I think Harrisburg

Population 49,188

Lancaster

Population 59,325

Altoona

Population 45,796

Akron

Population 198,100

Youngstown

Population 65,184

How about irrelevant meaning any town with less than 100,000 people living within a 20 mile radius of it?


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#33 Ryan

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:17 PM

Three different ways but all require connections. And the people in Harrisburg and Lancaster have only two options while the people in Altoona and Johnstown are stuck waiting in Pittsburgh's station either from 8:05 to 11:59pm or between 5:05 and 7:30am (assuming on time trains).


And the people in Cincinnati, Staunton, Huntingtown, et al have only one way and you're advocating to take it away. Get lost.
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#34 jebr

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:22 PM

Looking at it as a "direct Chicago connection" minimizes what that train does. Philadelphia at least has other options that can get them from point A to point B, albeit with a connection. Many on the Cardinal route would not only lose a direct route to Chicago, they'd lose any route to Chicago. And any route to New York. And Washington. And Charlottesville. And Los Angeles. And Staples, MN. And every other community served by Amtrak.

 

We don't have the Cardinal to have a direct route from Huntington or Thurmond to Chicago. We have it so that Huntington and Thurmond have a rail route to the rest of the country.



#35 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:26 PM

 

Three different ways but all require connections. And the people in Harrisburg and Lancaster have only two options while the people in Altoona and Johnstown are stuck waiting in Pittsburgh's station either from 8:05 to 11:59pm or between 5:05 and 7:30am (assuming on time trains).


And the people in Cincinnati, Staunton, Huntingtown, et al have only one way and you're advocating to take it away. Get lost.

 

 

I would never advocate taking the train away from Cincinnati. You can always extend the Hoosier State there.


Trains Traveled: Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA), Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI), Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS), Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), , Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL), Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX), California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY), City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL), Texas Eagle (CHI-DAL)
Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/


#36 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:27 PM

Looking at it as a "direct Chicago connection" minimizes what that train does. Philadelphia at least has other options that can get them from point A to point B, albeit with a connection. Many on the Cardinal route would not only lose a direct route to Chicago, they'd lose any route to Chicago. And any route to New York. And Washington. And Charlottesville. And Los Angeles. And Staples, MN. And every other community served by Amtrak.

 

We don't have the Cardinal to have a direct route from Huntington or Thurmond to Chicago. We have it so that Huntington and Thurmond have a rail route to the rest of the country.

 

Akron and Youngstown say hi. Was it fair that they lost service everywhere when the TR was canceled? Some trains get cut and some markets lose service. It happens. 

 

You can say you shouldn't cut some service to add some others but there is precedence for doing so (1997 when they cancelled the Desert Wind and Pioneer and expanded the California Zephyr and Empire Builder to daily). Remember this cut cancelled all train service to Las Vegas and that market makes Akron and Youngstown look like Thurmond.

 

Remember the Cardinal has one of the lowest riderships of any Amtrak LD train. You can say it's because it's 3 days a week but then again the Cardinal has almost always been 3 days of the week to my recollection. If the Cardinal was that successful, they would've made it daily years ago. You assume that if the Cardinal is expanded daily that the number of passengers per train would remain the same. I do not. I would guess if the Cardinal went daily it would have less ridership/revenue than the Capitol Limited or what the Three Rivers had.

 

Give me a direct route from CHI to PHL that takes less than 24 hours and I'll leave the Cardinal alone. But of course if I don't have what I want, I'm going to say why does so and so have what I want and don't have? I would even go further any say the BL/TR has more potential ridership/revenue than the CL. Who lives between PGH and WAS?

 

I would say if Amtrak HAD to cut a LD train, the Cardinal is the obvious choice. Only the SL has less ridership and they serve larger states and markets.


Edited by Philly Amtrak Fan, 18 August 2015 - 07:40 PM.

Trains Traveled: Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA), Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI), Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS), Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), , Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL), Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX), California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY), City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL), Texas Eagle (CHI-DAL)
Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/


#37 jebr

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:28 PM

I would never advocate taking the train away from Cincinnati. You can always extend the Hoosier State there.

 

And lose direct (or even relatively logical connecting) service to the Northeast Corridor? (And also lose that same direct service to Indianapolis.)


Edited by jebr, 18 August 2015 - 07:28 PM.


#38 Ryan

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:41 PM

I would never advocate taking the train away from Cincinnati. You can always extend the Hoosier State there.


But Staunton, Huntingtown, Thurmond, and all those other places? What about them?
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#39 Philly Amtrak Fan

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:42 PM

 

I would never advocate taking the train away from Cincinnati. You can always extend the Hoosier State there.

 

And lose direct (or even relatively logical connecting) service to the Northeast Corridor? (And also lose that same direct service to Indianapolis.)

 

 

Reroute through PGH? Is CIN/PGH possible?


Trains Traveled: Broadway Limited (CHI-Harrisburg, PA), Three Rivers (Harrisburg, PA-CHI, Altoona, PA-CHI, PHL-CHI), Capitol Limited (CHI-WAS), Lake Shore Limited (NYP-CHI), , Silver Meteor (PHL-ORL), Southwest Chief (CHI-LAX), California Zephyr (CHI-SLC, SLC-EMY), City of New Orleans and/or Illini (CHI-Champaign, IL), Texas Eagle (CHI-DAL)
Bring back the Broadway Limited (or Three Rivers or any Chicago-Pittsburgh-Philly train)!
 
https://www.facebook...roadwayLimited/


#40 jebr

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Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:48 PM

 

 

I would never advocate taking the train away from Cincinnati. You can always extend the Hoosier State there.

 

And lose direct (or even relatively logical connecting) service to the Northeast Corridor? (And also lose that same direct service to Indianapolis.)

 

 

Reroute through PGH? Is CIN/PGH possible?

 

Possible. Probably nowhere near as cost-effective as keeping the Cardinal, though, and making it daily.






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