Never Again

So this morning I was sitting with a lady and her son in the diner (cafe car). She had already cancelled her return trip to Cleveland OH, and book a one-way rental car for return. She was a never again first time rider.

We lost our diner at Washington DC, and now running 4.25 hrs late. She had upgraded to a bedroom from Cleveland for a party of three. She liked but it was a bit tight. Her issues were during the three hours that it had taken to swap food service cars she was in coach and had no HEP, saw one passenger taken off by EMS. Last night she saw some drug useage, and could not sleep. This AM she need a shower, and was refusing to eat anything that was microwave.

How do you address this type of experience?

I has able to get her a corrected ETA to Orlando, she was under the impression that we 6 hours late, were 4.25 late with small chance of improvement.

However her overall outlook was still poor. Any magical words when you find yourself with a "never again" passanger?

The journey is an event separate from the arrival and should be enjoyed as such - ie think of the bragging rights you have when you get home.

Wife hates to fly. We were coming home from Reno and had an opportunity (plane was over booked) to get a courtesy voucher if we were willing to stay over night. Couldn't (what is it with women anyway?) missed an opportunity to experience a different event, a layover. We had nothing pressing to be home for and may have gotten a voucher that we could have used later. Ah well, her loss is the in the narrowness of _her_ experience not mine.

Just-Thinking-51 said:

So this morning I was sitting with a lady and her son in the diner (cafe car). She had already cancelled her return trip to Cleveland OH, and book a one-way rental car for return. She was a never again first time rider.

We lost our diner at Washington DC, and now running 4.25 hrs late. She had upgraded to a bedroom from Cleveland for a party of three. She liked but it was a bit tight. Her issues were during the three hours that it had taken to swap food service cars she was in coach and had no HEP, saw one passenger taken off by EMS. Last night she saw some drug useage, and could not sleep. This AM she need a shower, and was refusing to eat anything that was microwave.

How do you address this type of experience?

I has able to get her a corrected ETA to Orlando, she was under the impression that we 6 hours late, were 4.25 late with small chance of improvement.

However her overall outlook was still poor. Any magical words when you find yourself with a "never again" passanger?

Click to expand...

I guess I would talk about all the good trips I have taken and that once in a while you have a problem like this one. Encourage her to try it again and it is likely she would not experience a similar series of events. I think booking a bedroom for three is not a good idea for an overnight trip but its her money. I certainly would have spent the money to get a sleeper on the Meteor/Star for the trip to Fla. If she is really against "microwaved" food then I guess Amtrak is not the way to go in coach.

Sadly, even as a train ride enthusiast, (some would say fanatic), based on my own experiences, I cannot put my hand on my heart and always defend Amtrak's performance in glowing terms...

Possibly the person was misinformed as to what to expect, possibly her expectations were unrealistic? Possibly Amtrak did its best, possibly it could and should have done better...?

She felt unhappy, and simply exercised her judgement to choose a different transport option for her return.

It would be interesting know which "failing" was the worst for her... ?

Ed

So she got to experience riding in Coach without a Diner and didn't care for it!

Its good that you are able to try to help out, if only Amtrak staff would try to provide this level of service when stuff happens they might be able to convince "Never Againers" to give Amtrak another chance!

Just like what's happening on the Star ( if the Sleepers are SOLD OUT) and soon other LD Trains if this hair brained "expierement" spreads! ( shades of the SP Automat Trains in the 60s!)

Anderson's latest Monthly breakdown shows worrisome stats for the Florida Trains and that's before the Starless without a Diner "trial" started!

There is nothing you can say beyond your own experiences. In my case, 50% of my LD trips have been problem free (I allow for 1 hour lateness or less), 50% have had gigantic mind-numbing problems--from 6 hour+ delays, to noisy parties on board at night, to poor food experiences, missing SCA's, and (regrettably) suicides on the track. Unfortunately, most of my bad trips have been the more recent ones.

I do have a policy of NEVER EVER recommending Amtrak LD travel to any friend of mine who asks about it. It is NOT for everyone. That may well be the case for the lady you encountered in the diner. I think it was great, though, that as an experienced traveler, you took her under your wing and tried to help.

That's the part that WAY TOO MANY STAFFERS in Amtrak mgmt seem to "forget" : Those who try Amtrak once, and then say "NEVER AGAIN".

We all know from Mktg 101 the cost of KEEPING a customer is WAY LESS than the cost of ACQUIRING a new (first time) customer.

And the sad part is, is the retention rate for first-time customers, who have a "less than desirable experience" could be VASTLY improved, by one simple tactic: Better customer service WHEN these events happen. Thou that sounds "simple" it's really a bit more complex. Mgmt needs to empower line staff to make decisions, and comp items. Line staff needs to be trained in the "Disney method" of hospitality, (or Ritz, or Marriott)

But many, many, bad customer experiences, (you name 'em: Late train crappy food, no AC, too cold, too hot, surly employee, etc., etc.) can be overcome, or at least ameliorated, by outstanding customer service, at least to the point of convincing the guest to "try again"

The interesting thing was during lunch I was sitting with a couple of 1st timer also from Cleveland OH. This couple travel in roomette all the way down, and were enjoy there trip. Only complain I got out of them was the pine tree comment. I end up giving them my national timetable, and I pretty sure they going on the Califorina Zephy on there next vacation.

Win some, lose some.

And for some people, train travel is just not for them...just like flying, cruising, etc.

Yes, the urge to travel by train is, shall we say, very far from universal, specially more so in the US. I am still dealing with "never agains" from the mid 70's through early 80's and trying toge t them to try Amtrak. Perhaps this is a foolhardy thing to do. But the fact of the matter is that these few "never agains" are nothing new. They have existed since way before Amtrak. For each Super Chief there were dozens of Podunk Locals that rose to a level of inconvenience that Amtrak can only dream of achieving today.

Similarly, misconnects in Chicago have existed since before Amtrak, and throughout Amtrak's existence there has been a steady flow of them. In fact I remember having misconnected more often in Chicago back in the early 80's than I have experienced in this century so far. The EB used to run many hours late through the winter putting me in hotels in Chicago back then quite predictably too.

it is just difficult to run a skeletal network of service with limited staff in the field. Nothing will change that. Unless there is a rich network it is hard to recover from occasional failures quickly specially given relatively low level of cooperation from the host railroads.

And given that situation, it is difficult (and possibly dishonest) to honestly and with a straight face tell anyone that they should ride trains, without mentioning the inevitable inconveniences that they will have to deal with. heck when I tell people about flying on plans I give them the good, the bad and the ugly. So why not for trains?

Just-Thinking-51 said:

Any magical words when you find yourself with a "never again" passanger?

Click to expand...

I'd say that maybe Amtrak is not for them. Why would I say anything else? I'm not a blind apologist and blowing smoke up someone's rear isn't going to fix anything. This line of magical thinking is so convoluted and counterproductive that I can scarcely comprehend it. Instead of trying to pull the wool over other people maybe you should try opening your own eyes a bit wider.

At this point, I will conditionally recommend the trains from Syracuse to New York City (with the caveat that you should expect to get in 2 hours late) and the overnight LSL from Syracuse to Chicago (with the caveat that you should expect to get in 4 hours late).

I don't recommend Amtrak trips involving *connections* to anyone who isn't an obvious railfan.

Single overnight on one train, I can give a good recommendation to (and if warned about the delays most people take them in stride).

I do programs at our local library and for civic groups in our town on Amtrak. After we talk about the nice parts of riding Amtrak, I discuss as many things as possible about the problems that can happen...bustitutions, late trains, missed connections, equipment that doesn't work, surly employees. Surprisingly, there are still people in the room that want me to help them get a ticket.. . But it is correct to say that it takes someone with a good sense of humor and someone not in a hurry who will most likely survive a problem trip..

Just-Thinking-51 said:

We lost our diner at Washington DC, and now running 4.25 hrs late. She had upgraded to a bedroom from Cleveland for a party of three. She liked but it was a bit tight. Her issues were during the three hours that it had taken to swap food service cars she was in coach and had no HEP, saw one passenger taken off by EMS. Last night she saw some drug useage, and could not sleep. This AM she need a shower, and was refusing to eat anything that was microwave.

Click to expand...

I just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly. Did they swap the dining car at WAS with the passengers still on the train?

AFAIK, Yes

Thirdrail7 said:

Just-Thinking-51 said:

We lost our diner at Washington DC, and now running 4.25 hrs late. She had upgraded to a bedroom from Cleveland for a party of three. She liked but it was a bit tight. Her issues were during the three hours that it had taken to swap food service cars she was in coach and had no HEP, saw one passenger taken off by EMS. Last night she saw some drug useage, and could not sleep. This AM she need a shower, and was refusing to eat anything that was microwave.

Click to expand...

I just want to make sure I'm reading this correctly. Did they swap the dining car at WAS with the passengers still on the train?

Click to expand...

I've seen worse. On the Meteor last month, a coach was taken out of service at WAS and replaced (the AC went out). Result: 50-odd pax having to deboard, bags and all, and reboard when the new coach was added.

(I was boarding at WAS...we were held in the station for a while, but the friend I was with and I ended up going down before we were directed...we had our tickets and were right above the train and there were plenty of other pax on the platform...and the delay was spilling to the point that I wanted to confirm that we'd get dinner; that said, the cup of miso I grabbed to sip while awaiting the train was a very good investment).

Yes it seem that the coach pax were in the cars during the move, and the HEP was reported off for a long time.

I was in the 11 sleeper, so my knowledge is not first person.