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New Siemens Charger locomotive.


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#1221 jis

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 11:26 AM

Railiner I agree with your assessment that when electricity is used merely as a transmission mechanism connecting a single source of power to the wheels it probable would not be considered “hybrid”. When its source of power is more than a single one that is when it becomes “hybrid”. Just my way of thinking about it which appears to have consistent basis to me. But I am open to convincing of changing my thinking.
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#1222 PVD

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 02:04 PM

There is reason in that thinking., but focusing on series, rather than parallel or series parallel, I can also see that side of it. since all power is distributed as electricity to the traction motors not through a power splitting arrangement. At least in transportation, I've generally heard that referenced as (almost all locos) D-E, often on cars, trucks, and buses, add batteries get DE Hybrid (available in both series and parallel, as in BAE vs Allison drives for buses) delete diesel, get B-E (like a Proterra) 


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#1223 keelhauled

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 07:07 PM

In the rail industry, hybrid locomotive most commonly is used in reference to the Green Goat switching locomotives that used a small diesel to charge a battery bank, which drove the traction motors.  GE also built a testbed Evolution series locomotive that they called a hybrid, but it only used batteries (charged by dynamic braking) to boost power to the traction motors; it couldn't operate on batteries alone.  There have probably been various other one-off experiments.

 

The Green Goats had some issues with self-combustion and general unreliability, and simpler genset locomotives became favored for low-emissions switching jobs.  GE's hybrid was never built commercially, since they have met every emissions requirement with the GEVO engine alone.  Supposedly there is still design work happening for an updated version, though.

 

In Europe, CRRC recently sold several Green Goat style hybrids to Deutsche Bahn, though they aren't going to enter service for a few years.

 

The Charger is no more a hybrid than the P42 is, which is to say in an extremely literal interpretation it is but not in any typical usage of the term.  It's the same design as a P42 except the engine says Cummins instead of GE.


Edited by keelhauled, 10 October 2018 - 07:07 PM.

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We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just stuff that works.


#1224 gswager

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 09:26 PM

Are Chargers more fuel efficient than P42s if pulling the same numbers of cars and tonnages? If so, how much efficient?
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#1225 Acela150

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 10:11 PM

Are Chargers more fuel efficient than P42s if pulling the same numbers of cars and tonnages? If so, how much efficient?


Since they are Tier 4 compliant I’ll venture to say they are slightly better. Maybe a half mile to a mile.
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#1226 CSXfoamer1997

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 10:13 PM

When I said "hybrid", I meant like half diesel half hybrid-battery. A similar example is a hybrid car.

 

And again, I was not referring to dual mode.

 

So, the answers I'm getting now, is that they're standard diesel locomotives (non-hybrid), right?



#1227 Acela150

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 10:47 PM

When I said "hybrid", I meant like half diesel half hybrid-battery. A similar example is a hybrid car.

 

And again, I was not referring to dual mode.

 

So, the answers I'm getting now, is that they're standard diesel locomotives (non-hybrid), right?

 

No they're not. You're likely to find something like that working in a yard. AKA a genset unit. They're not meant for Road Use. 


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#1228 railiner

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Posted 10 October 2018 - 11:57 PM

Here's a pretty good explanation of how my Prius "Synergy Drive" works, from this British site....

 

http://blog.toyota.c...ergy-drive-work


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#1229 keelhauled

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 06:16 AM

Are Chargers more fuel efficient than P42s if pulling the same numbers of cars and tonnages? If so, how much efficient?

Since they are Tier 4 compliant Ill venture to say they are slightly better. Maybe a half mile to a mile.
The Tier standards haven't got anything to do with fuel efficiency, they're all about exhaust emissions, and while I can't speak for the QSK95 vs the FDL in particular, Tier 4 diesels actually tend to be somewhat less fuel efficient than their immediate predecessors.

We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just stuff that works.


#1230 PVD

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 06:23 AM

We are getting a bit hung up on terminology in terms of technical vs actual. A Charger is what most folks would refer to as a standard road diesel. In actuality, it is diesel-electric, since the diesel is used to generate electricity for traction power, and in the case of passenger use, HEP. Genset units have a separate engine driving the generator that is producing HEP. An F-59PHI would be an example of a passenger road diesel in the genset category. Switching/yard work presents opportunities for different methods, speed is not the requirement that it is in road service, diesel-electric, and diesel-hydraulic (think transmission) are pretty common. You don't need HEP for most yard, work,  and switching work


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#1231 DSS&A

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Posted 17 October 2018 - 05:57 PM

Another F59PHI left on the Southwest Chief last night, likely going to its new home in Chicago. Any updates on when the new Pacific Surfliner Chargers will enter service?


I just saw three Cascades F59PHI locomotives in the Metra Western Avenue yard in Chicago this evening. The locomotive numbers are 467, 468 and 470.




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