Lack of southeastern "hub"

My wife and I live in FL and we LOVE taking the train (we do not like to fly). We also like to travel when we take our work vacations and we take the train whenever we can.

We would love to be able to go out west, but we are frustrated by the lack of (shorter) Amtrak routes to get there.

For example--to get from FL to Los Angeles, we'd have to first go up to Chicago and then go to L.A.. A trip like this would take 80-90 hours one-way, and a good part of that time seems to be spent just getting to Chicago as that is the nearest "hub". This makes it impossible to take a vacation out west by train because the train time alone would use up such a huge portion of our vacation days.

I know that there are probably financial considerations that keep a southern hub from being profitable, but if we were able to take a train to Jacksonville or Atlanta or somewhere in the southeast (instead of having to go to Chicago), that would cut-out a huge chunk of travel time and make it more possible.

New Orleans is another example...I'd love to be able to take a train from FL to New Orleans, but going by Amtrak would be almost a 75-80 hour trip (one-way) having to first go to Chicago, which seems silly compared to a nine-hour drive. I like taking the train, but in this case the time difference it so lopsided in favor of the drive that it's just not even worth considering.

I'm sure there are massive logistical and fiscal issues that prevent a southern hub from being put into place, but having any kind of southeastern hub would make a train trip out west possible for those of us who have limited time for these kind of trips.

Has Amtrak ever had a hub in the southeast? Does anyone think there will ever be one?

(And in my calculations of travel times I am also including "layover" times).

The SL used to run all the way to Miami before a hurricane knocked out service through LA, MS, AL. Once restored Amtrak just never restored service beyond NOL. Jacksonville was like a mini hub.

Thanks for the response.

Hard to believe that route was never re-instituted. Having to route everything from the south through Chicago to go to the Southwest is far too time-consuming and expensive (unless I was retired with unlimited free time and/or won the lottery)!

It seems like having that route back in place--even if just to Jax--would be very useful for anyone in this region wanting to take the train west. I know at least one (although I'm pretty sure both) of the Silver Service lines stop in Jax, so it seems wasteful not to have the Limited run at least to that point. Sorry to hear this route is no longer in place as it would be about the only way we'd be able to get out west via train.

Out of curiosity I did a search for the Sunset Limited and found this old on-line guide with list of stops.

What a shame this is route is no longer available as leaving from Orlando to go out west would be PERFECT for our needs (and others I'm sure as well).

http://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/57/168/Amtrak-Sunset-Train-Route-Guide.pdf

I had a couple projects in the Jacksonville area, so the route was perfect, but without it I had to revert to flying to Jacksonville.

It was 1993 the extension to Florida started and Katrina 2005 that it ended. It was Superliner equipment the entire 3024 mile route LAX - MIA.

Did you consider going up to Washington to catch the Crescent for NOL, then the Sunset to LA?

Hypothetically, one could do one of the trains that stops in Cary to get to Charlotte to get to the Sunset Limited, but good gravy those are some awful arrival and departure times.

Going ORL-WDC-CHI-LAX you arrive early morning on the 4th day with no nights in the hotel. Connecting to the Crescent is complicated and extends the trip to arriving 5:30 AM on the 5th day and doing a hotel in NOL. Going through Chicago is the quickest and smoothest route.

I don't believe the Sunset ever went to Miami with Superliners. I believe it terminated in Orlando, with the equipment deadheading to Sanford for servicing.

Washington DC is currently the closest thing to a hub for the Southern Region. To travel from Florida to New Orleans without using a bus, you could use any of the Florida trains, then transfer to the Crescent to New Orleans. As for service to L. A., you'd have to check schedules and fares to see whether it's better to go Washington - New Orleans - L. A. or Washington - Chicago - L. A. \

Tom

Yeah, you sort of have to consider WAS as the hub you're looking for (and certainly easier and faster to get to New Orleans than going to Chicago and then to New Orleans).

That said, one would think a city, near the center of Georgia would be a good place for a rail hub. Of course that's apparently 19th century thinking.

But quite seriously, I am often surprised that Atlanta doesn't have a lot more train service and act as sort of a hub.

Originally, about 1993, the SL did go to Miami, but due to problems turning the equipment and available connections in Orlando, the route was cut back to Orlando, which is what the route was when it was discontinued.

This runs up against funding issues, as usual. Amtrak has been kept on a starvation budget for a very long time. Due to economies of scale in railroading, adding a new route with low frequencies per day generally bleeds money -- adding more trains per day on an old route is much more cost-effective for the bottom line. On a starvation budget, therefore, Amtrak has avoided adding new low-frequency routes in recent years. :-(

neroden said:

This runs up against funding issues, as usual. Amtrak has been kept on a starvation budget for a very long time. Due to economies of scale in railroading, adding a new route with low frequencies per day generally bleeds money -- adding more trains per day on an old route is much more cost-effective for the bottom line. On a starvation budget, therefore, Amtrak has avoided adding new low-frequency routes in recent years. :-(

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Not to mention equipment shortages...Amtrak could probably scrounge the cars to extend the Sunset, but they'd have to pull them from somewhere and it's not like Amtrak has scads of Superliners laying around. The Sunset East also had an unwieldiness problem that blew up when the UP/SP merger did not go well: The run was so long that delays would cascade spectacularly. I know the train got truncated at times (or at least, it had to have given what I've heard), and I've heard rumors of at least one frequency getting into Orlando about 36 hours (!) late.*

Just musing:

I wonder whether a MIA-JAX-ATL service would work, possibly with a through NOL sleeper to be picked up by the Crescent. It would probably require State sponsorship from Florida and Georgia. Maybe not too likely in the current political climate.

Lonestar: I didn't remember the Sunset going all the way to MIA, but I'll take your word for it. I used to have a memory, but I don't remember what happened to it.

Tom

See the 1993 Winter timetable of the Sunset Limited, when it was introduced all the way to Miami.

It did go to MIA for a short period, but due to the delays, is was truncated in ORL so it could be serviced at the Sanford AT terminal.

Going ORL-WDC-CHI-LAX you arrive early morning on the 4th day with no nights in the hotel. Connecting to the Crescent is complicated and extends the trip to arriving 5:30 AM on the 5th day and doing a hotel in NOL. Going through Chicago is the quickest and smoothest route.

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There is a feeling of being in the "in crowd" when using jargon and abbreviations, but it can lead to breakdowns in communication. This is especially true when misusing jargon or abbreviations. I assume the routing above is ORL-WAS-CHI-LAX, as that makes sense and amtrak.com does not admit to having a station identifier WDC.

High-speed rail plans call for Atlanta-Jesup where some trains would proceed to Savannah and others to Jacksonville. But there is no substance behind those plans, and Georgia state government has been conspicuously absent in any support for passenger rail.

Restoration of the Sunset Ltd east of New Orleans has been discussed endlessly on this and other forums, but nothing has happened and there is no indication that anything ever will. For New Orleans - Florida, the only rail options continue to be a long detour into North Carolina or Virginia.

My suspicion is that any NOL - JAX - ORL service, if it eventually happens, will be a separate self standing train possibly funded by FL mostly, independent of the Sunset Limited, and on a different schedule than one that exactly matches the SL schedule in NOL.

If it ever happens as an Amtrak LD service, it will more likely be an extension of the CONO rather than the SL, since that kind of restores CHI - FL service, though not using an ideal routing.

I'd be curious is anyone knows how long the SL took to go from Orlando to Los Angeles...to see how much time would be gained by having that route available compared to the routes currently available now.

Sbburkett said:

I'd be curious is anyone knows how long the SL took to go from Orlando to Los Angeles...to see how much time would be gained by having that route available compared to the routes currently available now.

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You can find the answer HERE.

I like the OP's suggestion of a southeastern passenger rail hub for Amtrak. I can think of two wonderful up-and-coming southeastern cities (both famous for music) that would make terrific passenger rail hubs---and they are not Atlanta---or NOLA!

I think the historical reason why a southern hub never came about and why some of what little was there has disappeared is that culturally southerners are not into trains.

In the mid 90's on a circular trip to visit my mother in Mobile and aunt in Dallas I had occasion to ride the the SL east, BGH-Mobile section of the Crescent, and the Houston section of the Texas Eagle. The latter two were almost empty, about the only time that the contention that nobody rides the trains was not just an old wives' tale. Moreover, my mother (my father worked for a RR all his life) and none of her friends were even aware you could get to Mobile on the train. Both disappeared shortly after, and of course the SL east about 10 years later.

nshvlcat said:

I like the OP's suggestion of a southeastern passenger rail hub for Amtrak. I can think of two wonderful up-and-coming southeastern cities (both famous for music) that would make terrific passenger rail hubs---and they are not Atlanta---or NOLA!

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NOLA is already a bit of a hub. It is just missing the connection to the east.