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Amtrak Derailment Philadelphia (5/12/2015)


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#1001 Thirdrail7

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 08:00 PM

 

 

Negligence and carelessness of Amtrak to not have Postive Train Control installed on that section of track.

 
So, since the feds allowed the installation of PTC to get pushed back (even though Amtrak was still working on it,) would they not share the negligence? Maybe we should take a page from Fulham's book and fire the person that hired the lone person to exceed the MAS on the curve and derail.
One think that the lawyers will be stating this in the court room. I personally understand the responsibility of the engineer, and how projects are completed. But my understand and what is going to be said in a court room are not the same.

You really think the lawyer is not going to bring up a safety device? Or a lack of a safety device as negligence?

A few year back we had a safety device that one driver found annoying. So he wrap a sock around it to muffle the alarms. Rear ended a car. State Troopers saw the sock and off to jail the driver went. Did not matter to them what else happen. He disabled a safety device. He was guilty.

Negligence and carelessness is the claim. By not have a safety device at that location that would prevent overspeed.(If not PTC or the PRR system) Due to the lack of money or "we did not think we needed it there." Your going to prove your negligence and carelessness to the safety of the staff and passengers who ride your trains.

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Just-Thinking,

 

The reality of the situation is you're probably right. Speaking from an operational perspective and regulatory perspective, PTC is not currently considered a safety device...which is why it currently isn't mandatory. I also know that as previously noted, PTC and Cab Signal drops are not the end all be all.  One only need to look at LIRR and NJT for verification. However, the average juror wouldn't be phased by the technical aspects and sometimes, all you need is a label.

 

Therefore, the ultimate question would be "is there something that Amtrak could have done," and the obvious answer is the cab signal drop...and it wasn't in place.  So, you're probably right when you say a lawyer would easily make the case, particularly if they point to other locations that DO have cab signal drops. This is probably why Amtrak settled as quickly as they did.


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#1002 jis

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 09:38 AM

Thirdrail, isn't it the case that PTC in the form of ACSES is considered to be a mandatory requirement for territories where speeds above 125mph are allowed? It is just not a mandatory requirement anywhere else, right?

 

As you have pointed out, full PTC was not really necessary to prevent the 188 incident. Only a code drop as has been used elsewhere was all that was needed.

 

I am still curious as to what caused the Engineer to accelerate so wildly. I guess we'll never know for sure, and will just have to leave it at "Loss of situational awareness".



#1003 Thirdrail7

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 03:30 PM

Thirdrail, isn't it the case that PTC in the form of ACSES is considered to be a mandatory requirement for territories where speeds above 125mph are allowed? It is just not a mandatory requirement anywhere else, right?

 

That was the case prior to Amtrak implementing it throughout their territory. It is now required for Amtrak trains on the lines indicated in the MOU submitted to the FRA. However, it is still not classified as a safety device. It is still considered a supplemental system. The problem is if the FRA declares it a safety device, the other railroads would need to have it, particularly on ACSES territory. So for now, it is still considered a supplemental system.


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#1004 jis

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 05:24 PM

Are all operators on ACSES enabled trackage required to operate under ACSES already? Or are some them still working on equipping their equipment to be able to do so?

#1005 Acela150

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:53 PM

Jis, I can tell you that I seriously understand why the engineer lost his awareness. That area has multiple curves that are similar to the exit of Frankfort Junction. At least 2 that I can think of. Also in my two months of taking Septa trains to Trenton my trains have been rocked about 3 or 4 times out of at least 15 trips. Once on a set of the new rotem cars. The sound of the rock hitting the window is horrible and easily recognizable. I had to look at the windows for cracks to be sure.

Personally I believe that 188 did experience such an event. I also believe that a Septa train to Trenton and an Acela were rocked that night. Septa for sure. I personally think that the 188 tragedy is a result of kids with nothing to do on a nice warm night. Which is a result of poor parenting and a result of our Philly schools being treated like they don't matter. Here in Philly we have a new sugary beverage tax. It will help fund pre-k programs. I personally wish that it would be expanded to give these kids better after school and summer programs.
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#1006 Bob Dylan

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 07:58 PM

Always good to get solid info from someone who is actually there! Thanks Steve! 😉
 
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#1007 Thirdrail7

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:45 PM



Are all operators on ACSES enabled trackage required to operate under ACSES already? Or are some them still working on equipping their equipment to be able to do so?

 

This is only required on the NHB line. ALL trains must be equipped to enter the territory. It is not a requirement on other territories.

 

At any rate, you can tell a former NS executive is at the helm since Amtrak is now suing the engineer involved in 188.

 

Amtrak Defends Self From Lawsuit Brought By Engineer In 2015 Fatal Derailment

 

 

Please allow a brief "fair use" quote:

 


 

Bostian says he sustained injuries to his head, back and legs in the derailment, in addition to post-concussion syndrome and psychological injuries. Bostian claims some or all of these injuries are permanent, that he sustained a physical or mental impairment which may prevent him from undertaking his usual duties, a loss of earning power, physical and mental anguish, fiscal and credit rating losses and funds expended for his medical treatment.

 

On behalf of Amtrak, Hohn disagreed with Bostian’s arguments, countering that his claims are preempted by federal law and that the plaintiff was responsible for the deadly crash. 

 

To that point, Hohn introduced a brand-new counter-claim, seeking damages against Bostian for his alleged negligence in causing the accident, and denied the underlying rationale of his allegations.

 


 


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#1008 Acela150

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:39 PM

This is one thing that is ridiculous about NS executives. They sue the person who was at the throttle.

There's no point to it. They know that person doesn't have the money they are requesting for settlement. On top of that NS executives weren't even thought of at Amtrak at the time of the 188 incident.
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#1009 Acela150

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:45 PM

I'll add that I read the article. I find it hilarious that people suing Amtrak are claiming the engineer was using his cell phone when that was ruled out as a possible cause within days of the derailment.
These posts are my views and opinions.

Donate your spare time! Be a Volunteer Firefighter!
 
"Mainline 66W Recrew On Board at Abrams ready to head east when you can handle us, Ok 66W, ok on signal indication at Norris, take it to the Falls to wait for the window"




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