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#261 railgeekteen

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 07:53 AM

 

 

 

 

 

The 20th Century Limited was discontinued before Amtrak but there was other NYC/PC service on the route until Amtrak Day. The Lake Shore Limited route was not included in the initial basic Amtrak system and there were a few days at the start of Amtrak with no service. Service was returned (as the "Lake Shore") between Chicago and New York in 1971-1972 with some state operating support. Then was restored in 1975 (as the "Lake Shore Limited") between Chicago and New York/Boston.
 
EDIT: So, to directly and more clearly answer the question, there was a short gap in service on the route in 1971 and then again from 1972 to 1975.

 
Thanks all!
 
Did Amtrak run the Empire Service at the time?  Were the Empire Service levels similar to today's?
 
I (possibly incorrectly) remember that the commuter service on the Hudson Line prior to the formation of Metro-North was simply horrible: bad timekeeping, unwashed cars, no through trains past Croton-Harmon.
 
Ainamkartma
Amtrak ran service to Buffalo/Niagara Falls from day one.

Indeed PC Commuter Service was never better than horrible in most cases. There were minor exceptions I am told.

 

Amtrak ran as far as Buffalo (the old Central Terminal) from the beginning, but as was mentioned in Eric S's post above, there was that "gap period", when that was as far as Amtrak ran.

Amtrak did have a cross-platform connection with a train, usually Rail Diesel Cars, operated from Buffalo to Toronto by Penn Central (later Conrail); Toronto, Hamilton, & Buffalo; and Canadian Pacific, via Fort Erie, Welland and Hamilton.  

Later, besides the 'Lake Shore' train, Amtrak extended the Empire State Express from Buffalo to Detroit.  Later, they renamed it the Niagara Rainbow, but it did not actually go thru Niagara Falls until October of 1978, and then it ended service altogether in 1979.  Amtrak used the name in the '90's for a briefly operated once a week overnite train to Toronto.

In 1981, Amtrak started thru service together with VIA Rail from New York to Toronto, via Buffalo Exchange Street, and Niagara Fall, NY and Ont, then the CN route to Toronto.

 

It is interesting to note, that when the Lake Shore was extended by funding from New York and Ohio, Pennsylvania declined to contribute, and as a search of old TT's show, the train did not stop in Erie...

 

Surprising that they actually skipped a stop. The Downeaster never even considered doing that.

 

Yes and no....why should they let Pennsylvania get the benefit of a "free ride", and not contribute at least a token amount for the one stop?  On the other hand, that stop was the only stop in PA, and the stop would have produced some additional revenue for the train, and if unstaffed, not much additional cost....

 

Why did the Downeaster never do that?



#262 jis

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 07:57 AM

Why did the Downeaster never do that?

Because the folks who manage the Downeaster decided not to. ;)

#263 Eric S

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 08:58 AM

If stopping at station X improves the train's bottom line, perhaps skipping a stop out of spite is not the best course of action.



#264 jis

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 09:50 AM

It all depends on what interests the stakeholders and users of the system. For example, New York does not contribute anything to NJT's budget for it to stop in New York Penn Station :D, while MNRR pays NJT to operate the west of Hudson commuter service in New York State on their behalf.



#265 Palmetto

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 11:51 AM

Back to the Downeaster:  if NNEPRA were to decide to skip any one of the three New Hampshire stations [and some people have suggested they do, given that NH contributes zero to the service], the amount of income would probably take a pretty good hit.  The simple fact of the matter is those three stops contribute a lot to the bottom line.



#266 railgeekteen

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 11:57 AM

The coast of these two states is unserved by Amtrak. There should be a train down to Salisbury via Dover. 

 

MODERATOR NOTE:  This thread (Coastal Delaware and Maryland) was merged with the existing topic regarding "adding trains."


Edited by pennyk, 11 April 2018 - 12:06 PM.


#267 ParanoidAndroid

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 07:12 PM

Mextrak. Mexico lacks passenger trains, besides Copper Canyon, and a few trains around Mexico City.
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#268 Pere Flyer

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 08:12 PM

Mextrak. Mexico lacks passenger trains, besides Copper Canyon, and a few trains around Mexico City.

Agreed. Amtrak should follow Greyhound’s lead in providing service to at least those Mexican cities near the border.


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#269 neroden

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Posted 11 April 2018 - 09:06 PM

Given the complete insanity and maliciousness of the Border Patrol and ICE behavior at the Canadian border, can you imagine how they'd act at the Canadian border?

 

Mexico can't even get the US to cooperate on the *foot crossing* at Tijuana.  :-(


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#270 railgeekteen

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 08:41 AM

Given the complete insanity and maliciousness of the Border Patrol and ICE behavior at the Canadian border, can you imagine how they'd act at the Canadian border?

 

Mexico can't even get the US to cooperate on the *foot crossing* at Tijuana.  :-(

Then how does Greyhound manage? 



#271 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 02:11 PM

Have they finished that overpass from Mexico to Canada yet?

 

https://politics.the...pass-1819566460


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#272 Bob Dylan

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Posted 12 April 2018 - 02:18 PM

Given the complete insanity and maliciousness of the Border Patrol and ICE behavior at the Canadian border, can you imagine how they'd act at the Canadian border?
 
Mexico can't even get the US to cooperate on the *foot crossing* at Tijuana.  :-(

That's because all Mexicans coming here are "..Rapists and Criminals!.."
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#273 railgeekteen

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 10:02 PM

The San Joaquin trains should be extended to LA to give more than 1 daily train between LA and the bay area.



#274 Anthony V

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 08:36 PM

The San Joaquin trains should be extended to LA to give more than 1 daily train between LA and the bay area.

That won't happen because UP would fight it tooth and nail due to the extremely heavy freight traffic over the Tehachapi Pass. In addition, the current Thruway bus connection is much faster than the route over the Tehachapi Pass. OTOH, if/when the California HSR is built between BFD and LAX, then we may finally get passenger trains between those two cities.



#275 railgeekteen

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:33 PM

 

The San Joaquin trains should be extended to LA to give more than 1 daily train between LA and the bay area.

That won't happen because UP would fight it tooth and nail due to the extremely heavy freight traffic over the Tehachapi Pass. In addition, the current Thruway bus connection is much faster than the route over the Tehachapi Pass. OTOH, if/when the California HSR is built between BFD and LAX, then we may finally get passenger trains between those two cities.

 

Could the pass be renovated to add more capacity?


Edited by railgeekteen, 14 April 2018 - 09:33 PM.


#276 CCC1007

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 10:26 PM

 

The San Joaquin trains should be extended to LA to give more than 1 daily train between LA and the bay area.

That won't happen because UP would fight it tooth and nail due to the extremely heavy freight traffic over the Tehachapi Pass. In addition, the current Thruway bus connection is much faster than the route over the Tehachapi Pass. OTOH, if/when the California HSR is built between BFD and LAX, then we may finally get passenger trains between those two cities.
 
Could the pass be renovated to add more capacity?
Short answer, no. There isn’t a reasonable way to increase capacity on the pass. You would need either a new alignment or over a dozen tunnels would need to be changed.


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#277 NSC1109

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 09:02 PM

MICHIGAN SERVICES:

 

Bring the International back, routed via Detroit to Toronto. 

 

Add 356/357 and 358/359 to the Wolverine route on the holiday schedule. Utilize the renovated MCS in Detroit as a "mini-hub" for Amtrak, with 350-355 and 360-363 terminating there and 356-359 continuing to Pontiac. 

 

Add 366/367 to the Blue Water route to provide mid-day service to that region. It's a real pain to get up on the weekend to go home and you aren't able to take CATA to LNS (since they don't start running until 10). Additionally, the 8:40 AM WB arrival interferes with class schedules. 

 

Add 372/373 between DET and GRR over the CSX Plymouth Sub. This line sees very little traffic (a couple road trains, a local, and as occasional unit grain). Hand 'er over to MDOT/Amtrak and upgrade it for 110 MPH. 

 

Turn MCS into a mini-hub. Sure, Ford owns the building, but since they're only keeping four passenger tracks, there's sufficient space to make an addition and move Amtrak's offices from Pontiac to the MCS. That would all have to be negotiated though. 

 

360/361 and 362/363 as DET-TOL-CIN, connecting with the CL in Toledo and Cardinal in Cincinnati. 

 

368/369 for a Detroit* to Traverse City service under the "Michigander" name, calling at Howell, Durand, Mt. Pleasant, Cadillac, and Traverse City. 

 

*I say Detroit instead of GR because, although GR is closer, the infrastructure doesn't exist to operate directly between GR and Traverse City. Plus, GR is a stub-end station. 

 

 

NATIONAL NETWORK:

 

Reroute the LSL via the Michigan Line and Canada to ALB and then split to BOS/NYP. 

 

Broadway Limited between NYP and Chicago, in LSL's old time slot. 

 

 

WISCONSIN/MINNESOTA SERVICES:

 

North Coast Limited (instead of North Coast Hiawatha to avoid confusion with the current Hiawatha), CHI-MSP on a schedule akin to the Wolverine's current schedule. 

 

Expand the Hiawatha schedule to include two more pairs. 

 

 

ILLINOIS SERVICES:

 

Reinstatement of the Black Hawk, Chicago to Dubuque, IA, under numbers 374-377

 

Implementation of service to the Quad Cities under the "Quad Cities Zephyr" banner, number 385-388. 

 

Additional trains for the Lincoln Service.

 

 

WESTERN SERVICES: 

 

An additional pair for the Missouri River Runner

 

Prarie Star (KCY-DEN), numbers 401-406. 

 

Front Range Limited from Denver to Albuquerque, numbers 411-416


Edited by NSC1109, 05 July 2018 - 09:03 PM.

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Routes I want to travel on:
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#278 Pere Flyer

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 09:10 PM

MICHIGAN SERVICES:
 
Bring the International back, routed via Detroit to Toronto. 
 
Add 356/357 and 358/359 to the Wolverine route on the holiday schedule. Utilize the renovated MCS in Detroit as a "mini-hub" for Amtrak, with 350-355 and 360-363 terminating there and 356-359 continuing to Pontiac. 
 
Add 366/367 to the Blue Water route to provide mid-day service to that region. It's a real pain to get up on the weekend to go home and you aren't able to take CATA to LNS (since they don't start running until 10). Additionally, the 8:40 AM WB arrival interferes with class schedules. 
 
Add 372/373 between DET and GRR over the CSX Plymouth Sub. This line sees very little traffic (a couple road trains, a local, and as occasional unit grain). Hand 'er over to MDOT/Amtrak and upgrade it for 110 MPH. 
 
Turn MCS into a mini-hub. Sure, Ford owns the building, but since they're only keeping four passenger tracks, there's sufficient space to make an addition and move Amtrak's offices from Pontiac to the MCS. That would all have to be negotiated though. 
 
360/361 and 362/363 as DET-TOL-CIN, connecting with the CL in Toledo and Cardinal in Cincinnati. 
 
368/369 for a Detroit* to Traverse City service under the "Michigander" name, calling at Howell, Durand, Mt. Pleasant, Cadillac, and Traverse City. 
 
*I say Detroit instead of GR because, although GR is closer, the infrastructure doesn't exist to operate directly between GR and Traverse City. Plus, GR is a stub-end station.


All great and logical proposals as far as city pairings. Don’t forget a second, mirror frequency of the Pere Marquette.
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#279 SarahZ

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 09:23 PM

 

MICHIGAN SERVICES:
 
[lots of great ideas]


All great and logical proposals as far as city pairings. Don’t forget a second, mirror frequency of the Pere Marquette.

 

 

I love all of this. It makes sense, and it's a good plan.


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#280 railiner

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 09:39 PM

Aw heck, let's just restore all the trains that ran in 1956....

 

and the railroads they ran on... :)


metroblue?

okay on the blue!




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