Question about Metro-North

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Here's a question - will the planner new New Haven Line EMUs be able to run any faster? Or is it a track/cantenary problem? Are there any plans to increase speed at all on Metro-North? I'm always frustrated by the speed at the which the train pulls into Grand Central. It seems to me that trains arrive at Penn Station at a reasonable speed, while they only crawl into Grand Central, probably adding 5 minutes to every trip.
 
Here's a question - will the planner new New Haven Line EMUs be able to run any faster? Or is it a track/cantenary problem? Are there any plans to increase speed at all on Metro-North?
The new M8 trains won't run any faster than the current ones, that's due in part to track conditions, station distances, and the trains themselves. One simply can't accelerate to 100 MPH and still manage to stop at the next station in most cases. Then there are the many sharp curves on the line that limit speeds in many areas.

I'm always frustrated by the speed at the which the train pulls into Grand Central. It seems to me that trains arrive at Penn Station at a reasonable speed, while they only crawl into Grand Central, probably adding 5 minutes to every trip.
The trains don't crawl into GCT all that much slower than they do at Penn, but one must consider that with two exceptions at GCT if an engineer somehow screws up, he/she is now driving their train into a brick wall basically. At Penn, except for 4 tracks, all tracks run through. So overshooting a platform while not good, is probably not quite as serious unless there happens to be another train crossing in front.
 
While those last few minutes into GCT can seem excruciating, something you have to keep in mind is the track conditions. You're in a very poorly lit area with a lot of switches and tight curves. So while you're trying to get lined up to head in you don't want to be flying in at 30 or 45 MPH because one thing goes wrong you're looking at a catastrophe. Also with regards to the Engineering of the tracks, its really hard to improve something like GCT's layout because of the volume through there and the age of the space you're working in.
 
While those last few minutes into GCT can seem excruciating, something you have to keep in mind is the track conditions. You're in a very poorly lit area with a lot of switches and tight curves. So while you're trying to get lined up to head in you don't want to be flying in at 30 or 45 MPH because one thing goes wrong you're looking at a catastrophe. Also with regards to the Engineering of the tracks, its really hard to improve something like GCT's layout because of the volume through there and the age of the space you're working in.
Well trains don't exactly fly through the interlockings at Penn at 30 to 45 mph either, they run much slower than that. And the lighting on the East River side isn't much better than it is at GCT. Also volume has nothing to do with it, since Penn's volume is much higher than GCT's. Penn probably sees at least 3 times as many trains each day and on less tracks than GCT. On the other hand Penn has three different entrances and exits, while GCT only has one, so that can create some switching nightmares with regard to crossing traffic.
 
paragraph removed as being incorrect.

Even if you rebuilt all the track new, it would still be in almost exactly the same locagtion and to the same curve and turnout geometry because you are constrained by the structures around it. Therefore speeds would be little different, even though the ride might be somewhat smoother. As noted, the tracks at GC are stub end. With signals, you are actually usually slower going into a stub end track, as the the safety logic requires more margin than a manual operator usually uses.
 
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Mr Harris your statement has no truth to it as all speed's in GCT are restricted speed with max of 10 mph.

There is no cab signal indication other than restricted speed in GCT and the cabsignal can not display stop.

The speeds for entire interlocking from bumper block to 59 th street is simply low due to most switches being No 6's and signals are sometimes hidden behind walls etc.
 
Dutchrailnut, while I believe that may be true for Metro North and a number of other cab signal operations around the country, the ACSES Cab Signal system is capable of displaying a stop indication. When in ACSES territory the cab signal box is able to use the SDU (Speed Display Unit) to be able to show the speed the train must restrict to. For example on a standard cab signal box (such as the one found on most P-42's) a Medium Clear cab signal conforms to Cab Speed, Limited Clear, Medium Clear, Approach Limited, Approach Medium, and Advance Approach. However, with the SDU the Cab Signal will display the exact speed to which the Engineer has to comply to.
 
Dutchrailnut, while I believe that may be true for Metro North
You don't have to believe anymore. :lol: If Dutchrailnut tells you that MN cab signals don't display a stop indication you can be guarenteed that MN cab signals don't display a stop indication. When it comes to most things operationally on MN, there is little that Dutchrailnut doesn't know.
 
Thanks for confidence Alan, with 23 years in Railroading on basicly one railroad I better know how it works.

And batalion you are correct despite the wonders of ACSES there is very little real ACES on the NEC or Amtrak wise.

Only a few places on the NEC have actual ACSES cabsignaling active, one such place is New Haven to Boston.

and even ther the Amtrak and other trains enter Boston south station at restricted speed.
 
I didn't realize ACSES was only deployed on the Shoreline, it seemed like from what I'd read they'd activated it on the entire portion of the NEC that Amtrak owns, apparently not. Also, for the record I was not doubting Dutchrailnut, I was just stating that the technology is available, it just isn't deployed most places. B)
 
I didn't realize ACSES was only deployed on the Shoreline, it seemed like from what I'd read they'd activated it on the entire portion of the NEC that Amtrak owns, apparently not. Also, for the record I was not doubting Dutchrailnut, I was just stating that the technology is available, it just isn't deployed most places. B)
Not to sound dumb, but what is this ACSES thing?
 
ACSES is among the cutting edge cab signal systems. For the type of system ACSES is it's a very good system. Each signaling system out there, whether PTC, CSS, CTC, DTC, TWC is a safe and efficient system, for the application which it's being used.
 
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OK, I will bow to Dutchrailnut's superior local knowledge, and remove my first paragraph from my previous post. However, I believe that my second paragraph is still correct, unless there is room to install larger turnouts instead of the No. 6's, which I would doubt, as these are at the extreme bottom end of what a normal passenger car can negotiate and were probably used to make the track fan as short as possible. I would definitely not want to try to be running through No. 6 turnouts at any speed over about 10 mph regardless of how new or what rail section they were built in.

Dutchrailnut, are these No. 6's AREA standard, that is, either 11' 0" straight points or 13' 0" curved points or some unique design? A unique NYC design is what I would be inclined to expect, but in reality likely not too far removed from what you would get with an old AREA standard. I am curious about their geometry. If there is enough space on the inside, the radius can be increased slightly by using curved frogs, and the ride imporved by using a continuous radius through from heel of frog to point of switch, but you would need rome on the inside as it move the curve in a few inches. And this stuff is my area of expertise.
 
There's a whole bunch of different M series cars running on the MNCR. I think anything from M-2 - M-7 is running out there, but Dutchrailnut would know best.
 
New Haven line runs M2 pairs's built by Budd/GE/Vickers, they run M4 triplets built by Tokyu car company, and M6 triplets built by Morrison Knudson.

The Harlem / Hudson side runs are done by M3's built by Budd in 1983 and M7's built by Bombardier.

There are still about 30 M1a's on MNCR held as possible stadium service trains for future use.

The Push/Pull cars and Genes are used on all lines except for New Canaan where its very very rare to see push pull equipment.
 
New Haven line runs M2 pairs's built by Budd/GE/Vickers, they run M4 triplets built by Tokyu car company, and M6 triplets built by Morrison Knudson.The Harlem / Hudson side runs are done by M3's built by Budd in 1983 and M7's built by Bombardier.

There are still about 30 M1a's on MNCR held as possible stadium service trains for future use.

The Push/Pull cars and Genes are used on all lines except for New Canaan where its very very rare to see push pull equipment.
Back in August, I saw an Amtrak locomotive with two or three ConnDot cars on the New Canaan branch. Didn't have time for a picture though. This really confused me. I thought maybe there was a probably with the cantenary, but the next train was a standard set of M-whatevers.

By the way, the siding at NC only has room for one extra train, right? This means they could not increase rush-hour frequency between GCT and NC, I suppose - there is currently a large and (for me) annoying gap between the 6:07 and the 7:08 GCT departures.
 
Actually CDOT has leased 8 P-40's from Amtrak. CDOT was in need of more power fast, and Amtrak was able to provide units in good condition at a reasonable price that MN employees were already qualified to operate. I believe six of these units were given to MN and two to the SLE.
 
Actually CDOT has leased 8 P-40's from Amtrak. CDOT was in need of more power fast, and Amtrak was able to provide units in good condition at a reasonable price that MN employees were already qualified to operate. I believe six of these units were given to MN and two to the SLE.
I could be wrong here, but I think that guest Dinker was confused as to why any diesel hauled train was on the electrified New Cannan branch and not so much as to why an Amtrak P40 was on that branch.
 
Details. Details. :lol:
Well, it's so long ago now that I doubt anyone will know why, so I'm not really expecting an answer. I can give it a shot. I suppose it was around July. 28, give or take a couple of days, on a weekday in the early afternoon. I was rushing to make the train - whichever early afternoon one it was - and missed it at Talmadge Hill. I did make it on time to see it pull away from the station though and and it was an Amtrak diesel, hauling some cars with ConnDot livery. This surprised me and I suspected the cantenary must not be working but I came back in an hour for the next train and it was your ordinary New Canaan-line consist. That's about all the details I have, which is why I don't really expect anyone could explain this.
 
Details. Details. :lol:
Well, it's so long ago now that I doubt anyone will know why, so I'm not really expecting an answer. I can give it a shot. I suppose it was around July. 28, give or take a couple of days, on a weekday in the early afternoon. I was rushing to make the train - whichever early afternoon one it was - and missed it at Talmadge Hill. I did make it on time to see it pull away from the station though and and it was an Amtrak diesel, hauling some cars with ConnDot livery. This surprised me and I suspected the cantenary must not be working but I came back in an hour for the next train and it was your ordinary New Canaan-line consist. That's about all the details I have, which is why I don't really expect anyone could explain this.
Come to think of it, was not necessairily a weekday. It was certainly not a peak-hour train, though, in any case.
 
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