Amtrak Ski Train March 14

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Hmm, wonder why they're only doing this once. It sounds like they are bringing a train all the way to DEN, running it for

one round-trip, then returning the equipment from whence it came (I assume CHI?). Granted, if it sells out, that's up to

$30,000 in revenue (but likely to be less, since the child discount still applies). Seems like a lot of effort for a single

excursion.

(By contrast, the autumn excursion train out of PHL would require very little by way of equipment re-positioning).
 
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I'll be waiting to hear about the equipment used. It's hard to imagine Iowa Pacific being involved, given past history, but I could hope for that.
 
I'd be interested to find out about the backing for this. It has to either be profitable or have an in-state guarantor for any losses (probably both), since Amtrak can't spend federal funds on it.

I hope this is a trial run to see whether a more regular Ski Train could be run. There's a platform reserved at Denver Union Station for it. And it would relieve pressure on a congested section of the CZ -- by lifting off some of the ski traffic, this would probably allow for shorter CZ consists west of Denver and longer consists east of Denver.
 
Shorter consists west of Denver? Very unlikely. The train now frequently runs in winter with just 2 coaches, and never more than 3. Plus, there are large groups of non-skiers that ride between Denver and Glenwood Springs, and between Reno and Sacramento and other stops west of there.
 
Of course, there's still a need for cut-off coaches at Reno (or really, extending the Capitol Corridor to Reno). In terms of consists, I was thinking of being able to stick with 2 coaches west of Denver in winter. The ski traffic can really demand 3 or more, plus overload the baggage cars.

Looking at the details of this excursion, it seems that it's being promoted & backed by "Intrawest/Winter Park Operations Corporation ("IWPOC") the operator of Winter Park Resort".
 
400 seats is 5.4 Superliner coaches. Given that they're selling LL seats, it's very likely that's the equipment. But that's a strange number.

EDIT: There's a bug in Arrow - adult+senior+child prices as 3 adults, while adult+child prices as 1.5 adults.
 
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Train2104 said:
EDIT: There's a bug in Arrow - adult+senior+child prices as 3 adults, while adult+child prices as 1.5 adults.
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You're right, but if you change the senior to an adult, it prices out correctly. (There's no senior discount for

this train, so no need to book as a senior.) That said, it doesn't explain why adult+senior+child is incorrect.
 
Winter Park is sponsoring this as part of its 75th anniversary celebration. I imagine they will pick up any loses incurred by Amtrak. I doubt if it means regular ski train service will resume. That train has left the station.
 
...that really depends. If the run is profitable, and Winter Park thinks a resumption of regular service would be good for their bottom line overall, Winter Park may decide to contract with Amtrak for additional operations. Anything to bring the tourists up from Denver.

Could the route be run so as to give Amtrak a small profit, while making Winter Park's costs less than their revenues from added tourists? Maybe it could. If so, they might consider sponsoring it long term.
 
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Over on TO, they're speculating that the train will carry several Superliner coaches, but no lounge or diner. That would be a big mistake. Passengers will be expecting some kid of breakfast and coffee, at least. For those who don't know what to expect, their first train experience should offer some little taste of amenities, don't you think?
 
I'd suggest making one of those coaches a "snack-coach" which Amtrak has a few of, one which is commonly run on the Capitol Corridor route. But, if Winter Park is financing the train, the cost of food sevice may be out of their budget. Also, it may simply be one of those things being overlooked. And a single snack-coach likely would be pressed hard to deal with a full train.
 
If that's so, that's pretty amazing!-- considering that it's been years since the Ski Train last ran, and there was no prior notice or rumor of this coming. Seems to indicate a pent-up demand...
 
Blackwolf said:
I'd suggest making one of those coaches a "snack-coach" which Amtrak has a few of, one which is commonly run on the Capitol Corridor route. But, if Winter Park is financing the train, the cost of food sevice may be out of their budget. Also, it may simply be one of those things being overlooked. And a single snack-coach likely would be pressed hard to deal with a full train.
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Dude, like this train is totally in Colorado, so like everyone will be having the munchies, man. If a snack car can't make money on this run, nothing can.
 
I hope they can make it a regular weekend train again. I never rode the actual Ski Train - but I saw it many times. It would pull up and dump off all those people! You wanted to have your lift tickets and be in the lift line and headed up to the top before all those people got there.

The train would start honking the horn about 4 or maybe earlier and everyone would leave promptly at 4:15.

What a boost it was to the ski area and it has been missed.
 
Perhaps later they could use RTD commuter equipment...should be available on weekends...
 
Use RTD Fastracks Equipment that runs on overhead wire? Ummmm....wanna rethink that?

More generally, it has been shown that zero interest exists in the big picture plans of 60 Mass Ave to run the Ski Train ever again. Just supplying operating crews to run Iowa Pacific's equipment proved to be asking too much!!

March 14: inaugural and final run, all in one.
 
I thought RTD was also going to run locomotive hauled trains on longer routes.....
 
It is truly lame that the Ski Train has been dormant for so many years: what are executives tied-in to the skiing/snowboarding sport in Colorado thinking?

The fact that the Ski Train suspended service in 2009 is arguably one of the biggest marketing faux pas in American business history. What part of "the train sold out in 8 hours" do TPTB people not understand? Skiers in Denver (and those who came to Denver to ride the Ski Train)

absolutely loved the service when it operated. It very likely wasn't marketed correctly or the customer service aspect was lacking. When I lived and skied in Colorado, riding the Ski Train was THE thing to do.

WHY fight the parking lot atmosphere on I-70 and I-40 when you could take the train? Ski Train could run up and down the mountain full, Friday through Sunday. Now there's talk of making I-70 a toll road! WHAT?
 
I think the only one close to completion, probably the only one with any equipment built (not even withstanding testing) is the line to the airport, which is electric.
 
TT said:
It is truly lame that the Ski Train has been dormant for so many years: what are executives tied-in to the skiing/snowboarding sport in Colorado thinking?

The fact that the Ski Train suspended service in 2009 is arguably one of the biggest marketing faux pas in American business history. What part of "the train sold out in 8 hours" do TPTB people not understand? Skiers in Denver (and those who came to Denver to ride the Ski Train)

absolutely loved the service when it operated. It very likely wasn't marketed correctly or the customer service aspect was lacking. When I lived and skied in Colorado, riding the Ski Train was THE thing to do.

WHY fight the parking lot atmosphere on I-70 and I-40 when you could take the train? Ski Train could run up and down the mountain full, Friday through Sunday. Now there's talk of making I-70 a toll road! WHAT?
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Hi guest. Wiki is your friend here. I'm too upset to respond, but I'll highlight the important stuff.

The Ski Train made its final run to Winter Park on March 29, 2009. The Ski Train equipment was sold to Algoma Central Railway Inc., a subsidiary of Canadian National Railway. Ironically, the Ski Train's cars had been originally built in 1968 by Hawker Siddeley for use on CN's Tempo trains.

The Ski Train was burdened with escalating costs such as liability insurance coverage, operational conflicts with freight traffic, and substantial uncertainties posed by redevelopment of Denver's Union Station. These reasons combined with the worldwide economic maladies in 2009 meant that it was no longer feasible for the Ski Train to be operated.

Iowa Pacific Holdings (IPH), a holding company that owns railroad properties across North America and the United Kingdom (including San Luis & Rio Grande in southern Colorado), made a bid to revive the Ski Train using an improved business model that utilized idle equipment from SL&RG's subsidiary, Rio Grande Scenic Railroad. Plans fell through due to Amtrak, who would be supplying staff, classifying the Ski Train as a commuter operation vs. an excursion train, resulting in higher liability insurance. Amtrak settled the matter in court on December 23, 2009, five days prior to the first day operations were to commence (December 27). Full refunds were made by IPH.
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AMTRAK destroyed the SKI TRAIN and now THEY want to operate it! That's SO bureaucratic!
 
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Amtrak settled to allow for the ski train to start, but with only five days before the season, making all the money that was spent litigating for absolutely nothing.

And now Amtrak runs its own train like "Whee! Look at the great idea WE have!"

My point was that demand was not the issue. My opinion is that Amtrak felt a threat from the ski train to their own business plan.

For the most part, I've seen IPH act relatively responsibly in their ventures. On the other hand, Amtrak seems to break what it touches then blames someone else.
 
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