Do roomette doors lock?

*** Moderator's note - This was originally posted to a thread from 2008 ***

Why doesn't Amtrak get with it and install hotel locks on their trains so you can swipe your card to get in problem solved $300 per door cost. But wait Amtrak is a joke and so backwards it's embarrassing Europe makes the USA look like 3rd world rail travel we are way behind and it's embarrassing. Amtrak needs double the routes double the fare subsidies and a complete overhaul of their fleet into modernity. Speed, Quality, Comfort, Efficiency, and Affordability thats what they need to work on but they won't they are a lazy poorly run US Gov't entity that has never turned a profit and has to wait for freight trains before they can go so backwards (people vs. coal which has a deadline????) Vote rail expansion not stupid social issues that will not change vote for this it will benefit you more than gun control or war.

JR said:

Why doesn't Amtrak get with it and install hotel locks on their trains so you can swipe your card to get in problem solved $300 per door cost. But wait Amtrak is a joke and so backwards it's embarrassing Europe makes the USA look like 3rd world rail travel we are way behind and it's embarrassing. Amtrak needs double the routes double the fare subsidies and a complete overhaul of their fleet into modernity. Speed, Quality, Comfort, Efficiency, and Affordability thats what they need to work on but they won't they are a lazy poorly run US Gov't entity that has never turned a profit and has to wait for freight trains before they can go so backwards (people vs. coal which has a deadline????) Vote rail expansion not stupid social issues that will not change vote for this it will benefit you more than gun control or war.

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Because the $300 per door cost is so much less than the average theft cost, or even the average "fear" of theft cost, that -- "Why bother" --

Yes, and sometimes late at night I spew incoherent blather about "the Governement" or "the railraods" or "aboot those daft mooses that aare trying to annoy me and steal my underweaaaaaar -- oh my -- .

And my butt itches, but -- "heh heh -- that's a P*UN!"

Good night.

Try this

In the great green room ---

JR said:

Why doesn't Amtrak get with it and install hotel locks on their trains so you can swipe your card to get in problem solved $300 per door cost. But wait Amtrak is a joke and so backwards it's embarrassing Europe makes the USA look like 3rd world rail travel we are way behind and it's embarrassing. Amtrak needs double the routes double the fare subsidies and a complete overhaul of their fleet into modernity. Speed, Quality, Comfort, Efficiency, and Affordability thats what they need to work on but they won't they are a lazy poorly run US Gov't entity that has never turned a profit and has to wait for freight trains before they can go so backwards (people vs. coal which has a deadline????) Vote rail expansion not stupid social issues that will not change vote for this it will benefit you more than gun control or war.

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Oh Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get a Grip..............

I normally have my camera with me anyway when in the diner. Not because I'm paranoid about it being stolen but because I meet see something worth photographing

In fifty years of train travel I have never had a problem with anything being stolen on a train. Normal practice for us is to close the curtains, and not leave the family jewels out on the washstand. My sainted mother did often say that even paranoids have real enemies but I have never encountered one on a train.

JR said:

Why doesn't Amtrak get with it and install hotel locks on their trains so you can swipe your card to get in problem solved $300 per door cost.

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Because there's no reason to spend a pile of money to solve a nonexistent problem?

But wait Amtrak is a joke and so backwards it's embarrassing Europe makes the USA look like 3rd world rail travel we are way behind and it's embarrassing.

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I suggest you spend some time in the third world to see what travel looks like there.

Amtrak needs double the routes double the fare subsidies and a complete overhaul of their fleet into modernity. Speed, Quality, Comfort, Efficiency, and Affordability thats what they need to work on but they won't

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They can't, because they're not given the money. That's not their fault, that's Congress' fault.

they are a lazy poorly run US Gov't entity

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Nope. Partially funded by the government, but a private corporation.

that has never turned a profit

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They're not supposed to.

and has to wait for freight trains before they can go so backwards (people vs. coal which has a deadline????)

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That's not universally true. Amtrak is supposed to have priority (and gets it most of the time).

Vote rail expansion not stupid social issues that will not change vote for this it will benefit you more than gun control or war.

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You seem to be somewhat confused here. That's an interesting set of issues you choose to highlight.

Again - don't feed the troll. The recent guest poster here added on to an 2008 thread and will probably never come back to read all the great replies.

Why can't Amtrak add locks to their brand new sleeper cars?

Anyone who, after reading this thread six years later, thinks the hotel lock system could work on a train has no idea how those systems really function outside of being given a key by the front desk. I know, I work with this type of system daily. The belief that it could work on Amtrak is absolutely laughable. So on this its not even about the money. Its about it being a completely incompatible system.

If Amtrak were to spend money on this issue, they would install surveillance cameras. But as others have said, shut your door and curtain and you will have no problems.

Wow. A solution in search of a problem.

Orangesaint said:

Anyone who, after reading this thread six years later, thinks the hotel lock system could work on a train has no idea how those systems really function outside of being given a key by the front desk. I know, I work with this type of system daily. The belief that it could work on Amtrak is absolutely laughable. So on this its not even about the money. Its about it being a completely incompatible system.

If Amtrak were to spend money on this issue, they would install surveillance cameras. But as others have said, shut your door and curtain and you will have no problems.

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Now a specific hotel system probably wouldn't work given how often cars are swapped, and that because a hotel's locks and encoding system are specifically integrated to work only with each other. Now a similar system might be workable if designed with a car number in addition to a room number.

I do agree that it would be a solution in search of a problem.

Just an idea here.

Suppose that rather than fitting a proper lock, doors had a combination lock that guests can program themselves (a bit like a hotel safe).

This would avoid the problem of having keys to lose and of having to program the system centrally.

SCAs would have a master key to bypass the electronic lock.

People who weren't paranoid wouldn't use these locks (the code would have to be typed both to lock and unlock, so avoiding any inadvernet locking).

The paranoid would be able to program them and SCAs would be able to reset the locks with a key.

Alternately, as an ultra low-cost alternative, doors could have metal loops and guests could bring their own padlocks.

Also, what's in it for the thief? Look at it from what their perspective would be:

First of all, the thief has to a sleeping accommodation as well, which means they must also spend the money. Better off snooping around in coach cars, or simply in the station. It is possible they could sneak into those cars from coach, but unlikely.

Most people will carry their wallet or purse with them, and with that will include the phone more then likely. Also likely is that a traveler with a camera will take the camera with them in case they can get a picture while they are out. Therefore, let's say you are a thief and get to the empty roomette. What are you going to find? Someone's clothes? Perhaps you can score a laptop or a GPS, but is that worth the cost and risk for you? On top of that, why would you attempt to bust into a room with the door closed and curtain closed? 90% of the time someone is in there. So if you attempt to open 5 locked doors, isn't it common sense that someone may be calling for the SCA at that point?

It is a very high risk, low reward target for a thief, especially when the door and curtain is closed. This is why it is not an issue.

My sleeping car on VIA this summer locked, and I had to have my plastic key card to gain entry to my room.

If VIA can do this, I think that Amtrak can as well.

Also, freight DOES have deadlines. They have to have the freight delivered by a certain date, just like when you order a package from a retailer.

SarahZ said:

Also, freight DOES have deadlines. They have to have the freight delivered by a certain date, just like when you order a package from a retailer.

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Depends on the type of freight.

When you're talking coal for example, all the power plant cares about is that x number of trains arrive per week and all the mine cares about is that x number of trains leave per week. How long those trains need to get to destination isn't of interest to either. It is of interest to the railroad however as if they can shorten times, they might be able to make do with less equipment and have lower staff hours.

Orangesaint said:

Anyone who, after reading this thread six years later, thinks the hotel lock system could work on a train has no idea how those systems really function outside of being given a key by the front desk. I know, I work with this type of system daily. The belief that it could work on Amtrak is absolutely laughable.

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FreeskierInVT said:

My sleeping car on VIA this summer locked, and I had to have my plastic key card to gain entry to my room.

If VIA can do this, I think that Amtrak can as well.

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Okay, orangesaint, care to explain this? Why can VIA do it but not Amtrak? I'm not taking a side on whether or not it's neccesary...but you seemed so confident that it couldn't be done on a train...yet another poster points out that our neighbors to the north seem to have figured it out.

fairviewroad said:

Orangesaint said:

Anyone who, after reading this thread six years later, thinks the hotel lock system could work on a train has no idea how those systems really function outside of being given a key by the front desk. I know, I work with this type of system daily. The belief that it could work on Amtrak is absolutely laughable.

Click to expand...

FreeskierInVT said:

My sleeping car on VIA this summer locked, and I had to have my plastic key card to gain entry to my room.

If VIA can do this, I think that Amtrak can as well.

Click to expand...

Okay, orangesaint, care to explain this? Why can VIA do it but not Amtrak? I'm not taking a side on whether or not it's neccesary...but you seemed so confident that it couldn't be done on a train...yet another poster points out that our neighbors to the north seem to have figured it out.

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Yes. The VIA Renn Sleepers have hotel like card keys for each room. When you check in with the SCA you get your card key, and you need it to get into your room. Indeed, I don't see any technical hurdle to even an NFC device being used as a key if the infrastructure is set up properly. An additional $6000 isn't exactly going to break the bank in a $3 million car. So to me it seems we are observing yet another knee-jerk defense of whatever Amtrak does or does not do going on here.

Ditto to the posts saying if the Great White North can make it work on LD Trains so can Amtrak, especially with the Viewliner IIs still to be built!

Of course I also agree that's its not that big a problem, in 60+ years of Rail Travel I've Never had anything stolen from a Sleeper! Coach is a different matter!

cirdan said:

SarahZ said:

Also, freight DOES have deadlines. They have to have the freight delivered by a certain date, just like when you order a package from a retailer.

Click to expand...

Depends on the type of freight.

When you're talking coal for example, all the power plant cares about is that x number of trains arrive per week and all the mine cares about is that x number of trains leave per week. How long those trains need to get to destination isn't of interest to either. It is of interest to the railroad however as if they can shorten times, they might be able to make do with less equipment and have lower staff hours.

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Generally there is only so much onsite track to store extra cars and not every customer has round the clock crews so the initial pickup and eventual delivery typically need to be scheduled tighter than x per week. Even aggregate hauling is rarely off by more than a day or two under normal circumstances. Although maybe weeks of delays is the new normal at this point.

fairviewroad said:

Orangesaint said:

Anyone who, after reading this thread six years later, thinks the hotel lock system could work on a train has no idea how those systems really function outside of being given a key by the front desk. I know, I work with this type of system daily. The belief that it could work on Amtrak is absolutely laughable.

Click to expand...

FreeskierInVT said:

My sleeping car on VIA this summer locked, and I had to have my plastic key card to gain entry to my room.

If VIA can do this, I think that Amtrak can as well.

Click to expand...

Okay, orangesaint, care to explain this? Why can VIA do it but not Amtrak? I'm not taking a side on whether or not it's neccesary...but you seemed so confident that it couldn't be done on a train...yet another poster points out that our neighbors to the north seem to have figured it out.

Click to expand...

Simple. Whatever VIA does is not a "hotel lock" system. Just because it may use keycards doesn't mean its a "hotel lock" system. I'm sure if I knew the internal details of that system, I could find MANY differences.

Orangesaint said:

fairviewroad said:

Orangesaint said:

Anyone who, after reading this thread six years later, thinks the hotel lock system could work on a train has no idea how those systems really function outside of being given a key by the front desk. I know, I work with this type of system daily. The belief that it could work on Amtrak is absolutely laughable.

Click to expand...

FreeskierInVT said:

My sleeping car on VIA this summer locked, and I had to have my plastic key card to gain entry to my room.

If VIA can do this, I think that Amtrak can as well.

Click to expand...

Okay, orangesaint, care to explain this? Why can VIA do it but not Amtrak? I'm not taking a side on whether or not it's neccesary...but you seemed so confident that it couldn't be done on a train...yet another poster points out that our neighbors to the north seem to have figured it out.

Click to expand...

Simple. Whatever VIA does is not a "hotel lock" system. Just because it may use keycards doesn't mean its a "hotel lock" system. I'm sure if I knew the internal details of that system, I could find MANY differences.

Click to expand...

That's a back-end distinction that is meaningless to the average train passenger. You made it sound like it was impossible to issue key cards that would be used to open roomette doors. Clearly it is. Nobody cares whether it's a "hotel-lock system" as opposed to a "plastic programmable cards that can be used to open a locked door" system.

Orangesaint said:

Simple. Whatever VIA does is not a "hotel lock" system. Just because it may use keycards doesn't mean its a "hotel lock" system. I'm sure if I knew the internal details of that system, I could find MANY differences.

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You seem to be focusing too much on the specific language that you lost sight of the meaning of the question. Yes - someone used the term "hotel lock". However, several posting this thread understood that as meaning a card-key system, even if it's not a specific hotel system.

Plasticard-Locktech makes systems for cruise lines. That might be the closest to what might be applicable for a train. I believe the cards are usually encoded on shore, so they would need to be able to select the particular ship. If a new card needs to be encoded, that can be done on board the ship.

http://www.plicards.com/hospitality/cruise

jis said:

Yes. The VIA Renn Sleepers have hotel like card keys for each room. When you check in with the SCA you get your card key, and you need it to get into your room. Indeed, I don't see any technical hurdle to even an NFC device being used as a key if the infrastructure is set up properly. An additional $6000 isn't exactly going to break the bank in a $3 million car. So to me it seems we are observing yet another knee-jerk defense of whatever Amtrak does or does not do going on here.

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I'm not sure that I agree that it's as knee-jerk as you think - there's more to the system than just the install cost. There's the cost to maintain it (both preventative and corrective), the training cost to teach SCAs how to use it and how to program keys, the supply of key cards, etc. On the non-monitary front, it's the additional time demands on the SCA to encode the keys, recode replacement keys when someone inevitably loses theirs, and having to deal with complaints when the system breaks, and the "hey, this person broke into my 'locked' room, now Amtrak is responsible for replacing my stuff" situations.

Given that it's a solution in search of a problem, it's not surprising to me that Amtrak hasn't shown any outward interested in pursuing it.

Yes. I am completely certain many other railways systems in the world will deploy technology much before Amtrak gets around to it, if ever. There is a lot of evidence supporting that scenario. Somehow two of my friends who have had things stolen from their Sleeper Roomette have a different view of all this. But such is life. If we based on our own limited experience can declare something a non-problem we don't have to address it. See? Simple! So I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one, won't we?