Nit picking?

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caravanman

Engineer
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
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4,800
Location
Nottingham, England.
There is an old saying to the effect that if one is always looking to find problems, one can often find some...

I don't think that I was looking, but feel more that I have taken off my rose tinted specs recently.

We are all aware that timekeeping is pretty much out of Amtrak's hands, so I will leave that aside, and just pretend that I am a first time passenger.

1) I try to buy a ticket from a station agent and get offered stupid connections and more expensive routes than the one I know exists and which I have to argue is available.

2) The station agent emails me a ticket in the wrong format, so I have to phone customer service to get the correct format emailed. (The Amtrak ticket system was down while I was at the station).

3) Different station... Agent sells me a ticket for travel dated for travel the day before I purchased it! Thankfully, I did spot it in time to make another trip to the booking office.

4) Same agent, I ask for a return travel ticket and find that on my return train I have only a one way...

5) The Zephyr in sleeper. I am at the first table to be seated at the "first come first served" lunch, yet the server takes orders from two other tables before taking ours.

6) Dinner, the same server as at lunchtime gives my order to someone else, and then acts all surprised when I send back their food which I did not order.

7) Different server, no salad sent despite my order.

8) Dinning car steward does not take my order while "walking the train" on either day... possibly him being such an overweight person he did not trouble himself to make it down to the lower levels.

9) Looking forward to lunch on the last day, only to hear a sudden loud announcement at 11.30am that the dinning car is now closed for lunch! No previous announcement, no warning, no explanation.

10) At the end of my trip I have accumulated a lot of change, the cafe car assistant refuses to take all my silver (no coppers) to purchase one small beer.

11) Cold sleeper temperature, no way to provide any heat, travel date at end of October.

Because I enjoy train travel I shrug off these minor irritations, but looking back, all except one of these complaints is something that the employees could do something about...

The return ticket issue worked out ok in the end, although I could have been made to pay a conductor supplement, instead I got a free ride. My Zephyr sleeper attendant was good, the toilets and shower were clean and in good order, and we were early into Chicago. I am typing this aboard the Lakeshore Ltd, heading to NYP, straining to hear the whispery cafe and restaurant announcements once again... The good news today is that we have a good coach car attendant who keeps us informed, and also that overnight, I was one of the lucky few to have a whole 2 person seat to myself to sleep on! Bliss!

Trip report will follow.

Ed :cool:
 
Regarding the "return" ticket - I can totally see why this happened. It's because of the British English differences to American English. When I first heard my friend from the UK mention "return ticket" I had NO clue what he meant - I was convinced that he was talking about a one way ticket going back home. In the US, you want to say "roundtrip". :)
 
Regarding the "return" ticket - I can totally see why this happened. It's because of the British English differences to American English. When I first heard my friend from the UK mention "return ticket" I had NO clue what he meant - I was convinced that he was talking about a one way ticket going back home. In the US, you want to say "roundtrip". :)
"Return ticket" is standard English in the travel industry.
 
Regarding the "return" ticket - I can totally see why this happened. It's because of the British English differences to American English. When I first heard my friend from the UK mention "return ticket" I had NO clue what he meant - I was convinced that he was talking about a one way ticket going back home. In the US, you want to say "roundtrip". :)
"Return ticket" is standard English in the travel industry.
That may be, but I'm not familiar with the term and I'm sure that there are plenty of Amtrak agents who aren't as well.
 
I'd never heard of it either. I asked two people who read this with me and we both thought it meant a ticket to return from your destination, i.e. Point B to Point A. I learned something new as it means round-trip!
 
I'd never heard of it either. I asked two people who read this with me and we both thought it meant a ticket to return from your destination, i.e. Point B to Point A. I learned something new as it means round-trip!
"Return ticket" means "round-trip" or so.

In Wien, erinnrere dass --

I had to say repeatedly "einzelfahrt, einzelfahrt -- wir kommen nie zeruecki"

when not wanting a round trip ticket -- but that was long ago.

Ich hoeffe -- nah -- vielleicht wieder -- nah.
 
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Regarding the "return" ticket - I can totally see why this happened. It's because of the British English differences to American English. When I first heard my friend from the UK mention "return ticket" I had NO clue what he meant - I was convinced that he was talking about a one way ticket going back home. In the US, you want to say "roundtrip". :)

Ooops, I didn't realize that. I must have been winding up people for years with my Brit-speak :) .

Anyway, I never met an Amtrak agent who didn't understand me.

To me a "round trip" is a circular trip that takes me back to my starting point without necessarily going by the same route.

On the Amtrak website I think these are called "multi-city" trips.

A "return trip" is strictly a trip using the same route.

But seeing most of my trips were "multi-city", there many have been less scope for confusion.
 
I did explain that I wanted to return back to EMY from San Jose on the same day... and keep in mind that this agent managed to also sell me a ticket dated for travel on a train that had already departed A DAY BEFORE I EVEN PURCHASED MY TICKET !

More a case of Hangover or something more than a lack of common language, is my guess.

Nobody knows, just one of those "fun" Amtrak anomilies !

Ed :cool:
 
I did explain that I wanted to return back to EMY from San Jose on the same day... and keep in mind that this agent managed to also sell me a ticket dated for travel on a train that had already departed A DAY BEFORE I EVEN PURCHASED MY TICKET !
I would have thought the computer system would refuse to sell tickets for dates in the past, unless maybe said train is running late and can thus still be caught.
 
Regarding the "return" ticket - I can totally see why this happened. It's because of the British English differences to American English. When I first heard my friend from the UK mention "return ticket" I had NO clue what he meant - I was convinced that he was talking about a one way ticket going back home. In the US, you want to say "roundtrip". :)
"Return ticket" is standard English in the travel industry.
That may be, but I'm not familiar with the term and I'm sure that there are plenty of Amtrak agents who aren't as well.
Do you work in the travel industry? When you encounter a new or unusual term at work do you ask for clarification or do you just pretend you know what it means and ignore any evidence to the contrary? I agree that there is no legitimate expectation that every Amtrak employee should know every possible term or phrase they may encounter throughout the course of their work. That being said there is every expectation that they should be able to recognize the potential for miscommunication and be capable of articulating a mutually understood resolution with a fellow English speaker. Not to mention the ability to read a calendar.
 
Not to mention the ability to read a calendar.
Calendars and dates are another thing that can cause all sorts of misunderstandings between the two sides of the pond.

This is why I avoid saying things like 6/7 but call the month by its name if I think there may be any scope for misundersatnding.
 
Regarding the "return" ticket - I can totally see why this happened. It's because of the British English differences to American English. When I first heard my friend from the UK mention "return ticket" I had NO clue what he meant - I was convinced that he was talking about a one way ticket going back home. In the US, you want to say "roundtrip". :)
"Return ticket" is standard English in the travel industry.
That may be, but I'm not familiar with the term and I'm sure that there are plenty of Amtrak agents who aren't as well.
Do you work in the travel industry? When you encounter a new or unusual term at work do you ask for clarification or do you just pretend you know what it means and ignore any evidence to the contrary? I agree that there is no legitimate expectation that every Amtrak employee should know every possible term or phrase they may encounter throughout the course of their work. That being said there is every expectation that they should be able to recognize the potential for miscommunication and be capable of articulating a mutually understood resolution with a fellow English speaker. Not to mention the ability to read a calendar.
Of course I don't work in the travel industry. I agree that it would be great if all amtrak agents knew that a "return" meant "round-trip", but let's face it, we still have phone agents that don't know how to assign roomettes without charging a higher bucket if someone calls to change a room. I am just going on the assumption that amtrak agents are not that well-trained and explaining to the OP that a "return" is generally called a "round-trip."

Why do you have to make everything so personal?

Yes, we would all like amtrak to perform better. Does it surprise me when they don't? No.
 
Can lead service attendants really refuse to be paid in coins? Legal tender is legal tender.

Of course, some jerk trying to pay with sacks of pennies ought to be thrown off the train in the middle of nowhere.
 
I did explain that I wanted to return back to EMY from San Jose on the same day... and keep in mind that this agent managed to also sell me a ticket dated for travel on a train that had already departed A DAY BEFORE I EVEN PURCHASED MY TICKET !
I would have thought the computer system would refuse to sell tickets for dates in the past, unless maybe said train is running late and can thus still be caught.
I was also once sold a ticket for a train that had already departed. This happened this year over the phone. When I got to PHL I noticed the error and the ticket agent rolled her eyes and said she couldn't help me. Thank god for the agent in the club acela who helped.
 
Regarding the "return" ticket - I can totally see why this happened. It's because of the British English differences to American English. When I first heard my friend from the UK mention "return ticket" I had NO clue what he meant - I was convinced that he was talking about a one way ticket going back home. In the US, you want to say "roundtrip". :)
"Return ticket" is standard English in the travel industry.
That may be, but I'm not familiar with the term and I'm sure that there are plenty of Amtrak agents who aren't as well.
Do you work in the travel industry? When you encounter a new or unusual term at work do you ask for clarification or do you just pretend you know what it means and ignore any evidence to the contrary? I agree that there is no legitimate expectation that every Amtrak employee should know every possible term or phrase they may encounter throughout the course of their work. That being said there is every expectation that they should be able to recognize the potential for miscommunication and be capable of articulating a mutually understood resolution with a fellow English speaker. Not to mention the ability to read a calendar.
Of course I don't work in the travel industry. I agree that it would be great if all amtrak agents knew that a "return" meant "round-trip", but let's face it, we still have phone agents that don't know how to assign roomettes without charging a higher bucket if someone calls to change a room. I am just going on the assumption that amtrak agents are not that well-trained and explaining to the OP that a "return" is generally called a "round-trip." Why do you have to make everything so personal? Yes, we would all like amtrak to perform better. Does it surprise me when they don't? No.
I didn't see it as me making it personal. I honestly had no idea if you ever worked in travel industry. Point taken nonetheless. I don't work in the travel industry myself but I've heard return trip used in many different countries. British or Queens English is far more common in the world than US English. In those situations where they differ it's quick and easy to clarify with only the tiniest amount of effort. I suppose I'd be a lot more understanding if the world's foremost economic superpower wasn't already so hopelessly provincial. We only have one single language to learn. The least we can do is learn it properly.
 
I did explain that I wanted to return back to EMY from San Jose on the same day... and keep in mind that this agent managed to also sell me a ticket dated for travel on a train that had already departed A DAY BEFORE I EVEN PURCHASED MY TICKET !
I would have thought the computer system would refuse to sell tickets for dates in the past, unless maybe said train is running late and can thus still be caught.
Unfortunately the Amtrak reservation system is not hooked into the train status system. Without that you either just allow tickets to be sold for trains that by schedule have already departed, or you don't. And for various reasons the only reasonable choice right now is the first one and not the second one. The number of times I have changed a reservation to the current train after by mistake or by encouragement of the conductor even getting on a wrong train, usually an earlier one that is running late, on the NEC or the Empire Corridor, is well, not small.
 
I did explain that I wanted to return back to EMY from San Jose on the same day... and keep in mind that this agent managed to also sell me a ticket dated for travel on a train that had already departed A DAY BEFORE I EVEN PURCHASED MY TICKET !
I would have thought the computer system would refuse to sell tickets for dates in the past, unless maybe said train is running late and can thus still be caught.
Unfortunately the Amtrak reservation system is not hooked into the train status system. Without that you either just allow tickets to be sold for trains that by schedule have already departed, or you don't. And for various reasons the only reasonable choice right now is the first one and not the second one. The number of times I have changed a reservation to the current train after by mistake or by encouragement of the conductor even getting on a wrong train, usually an earlier one that is running late, on the NEC or the Empire Corridor, is well, not small.
That's probably true, but it sounds very 1990s to me.

Nowadays everybody is talking about the Internet of Things and Big Data and yet two computer systems within the same enterprise are unable to talk to one another.

It might similarly be of interest if a train is cancelled or rerouted at short notice and will thus not serve ceratin intermediate stations, to at least prevent people at those stations from booking that train.
 
I had an airline reschedule a connecting flight to the day BEFORE the arriving flight.
 
One of these years the Government MAY be able to get their IT Act together but its such a massive problem that here in Texas even IBM couldn't get the job done when contracted to do so!

Maybe Amtrak's motto should be: " Providing Rail Transportation in the 21st Century with 20th Century methods!"
 
Regarding the "return" ticket - I can totally see why this happened. It's because of the British English differences to American English. When I first heard my friend from the UK mention "return ticket" I had NO clue what he meant - I was convinced that he was talking about a one way ticket going back home. In the US, you want to say "roundtrip". :)
"Return ticket" is standard English in the travel industry.
That may be, but I'm not familiar with the term and I'm sure that there are plenty of Amtrak agents who aren't as well.
Do you work in the travel industry? When you encounter a new or unusual term at work do you ask for clarification or do you just pretend you know what it means and ignore any evidence to the contrary? I agree that there is no legitimate expectation that every Amtrak employee should know every possible term or phrase they may encounter throughout the course of their work. That being said there is every expectation that they should be able to recognize the potential for miscommunication and be capable of articulating a mutually understood resolution with a fellow English speaker. Not to mention the ability to read a calendar.
Of course I don't work in the travel industry. I agree that it would be great if all amtrak agents knew that a "return" meant "round-trip", but let's face it, we still have phone agents that don't know how to assign roomettes without charging a higher bucket if someone calls to change a room. I am just going on the assumption that amtrak agents are not that well-trained and explaining to the OP that a "return" is generally called a "round-trip." Why do you have to make everything so personal? Yes, we would all like amtrak to perform better. Does it surprise me when they don't? No.
I didn't see it as me making it personal. I honestly had no idea if you ever worked in travel industry. Point taken nonetheless. I don't work in the travel industry myself but I've heard return trip used in many different countries. British or Queens English is far more common in the world than US English. In those situations where they differ it's quick and easy to clarify with only the tiniest amount of effort. I suppose I'd be a lot more understanding if the world's foremost economic superpower wasn't already so hopelessly provincial. We only have one single language to learn. The least we can do is learn it properly.
That is great that you are so well-traveled. I like to consider myself an educated and well traveled woman, although there are still many parts of the world that I have yet to explore.

Unfortunately, many Americans are not so well-traveled. A quick google search reveals that only approximately 1/3 of Americans hold passports, although one link seemed to think it was 46%. So yup, again not surprised that many americans don't know a term that isn't commonly used in the US, even if it is in the travel industry, since I think its a safe assumption that less than half of all Americans hold a passport.

Also, its a little disingenuous to insist that regional dialects (american english being one of them) isn't "proper english." Is it proper to call the thing at the back of my car that holds stuff the trunk or the boot? I think they are both acceptable terms, one of them being more appropriate to a specific dialect of English. I'm not a linguistic scholar (Dialectologist?) but now we are really nit-picking. :)
 
Amamba is right, unfortunarely most Americans are provincial and only travel to the same places year after year on their Vacations! Anything or anyone different than what they are used to makes them uncomfortable and they call it or them " foriegn"!

I speak Texan so have problems communicating with others who speak their version of " American English"! Strangely I had no problem communicating with Eddie from England during the Gathering a couple of weeks ago!

"...You say potatoe, I say potato, let's call the whole thing off!"...
 
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OK, In the spirit of the back and forth going on in this thread so far, a lot of the rant that follows is a bit in jest, but also contains some thoughts based on experience that might be found to be useful by some (I am getting infected by the beautifulplanet style here :) )

Well traveled people, of all people know from experience that the dictum of "When in Rome do what the Romans do" makes life overall much easier both for the traveler and those that have to suffer through er... host them too. :)

And coming to think of it "Indian English" is spoken by way many more people than "British Queen's English" specially considering that no one would ever insinuate that a man on the street in say Yorkshire speaks "British Queen's English" leaving aside the Scots and norhterners and the Welsh completely out of the discussion for the moment. :p

And hey! In Indian English it is indeed "Return Ticket". People might look real strangely at you if you said "Round Trip", though, also being way more informed about things American than most Americans are about anything beyond their own navels, they will be able to handle it correctly in most cases.

There. I suppose I have pretty much stepped on everyone's toes a bit already, so I better shut up while I am ahead. :p
 
I strongly encourage you to write Amtrak regarding your on board experience. Feel free to include your good experience in the sleeper (aside from the temp) and definitely call out the food service crews for their poor performance. For some reason, many CZ crews continue seating lunch first call, second call etc.. They are not staffed to handle this many guests at once and you inevitably wait at the table when you could be waiting in your room. Then they make mistakes with orders and don't even wonder why. I hate calling out the obs crews since many of them are great workers, but some crews like this one need to be reminded of what their job is. Too many times, the on board experience feels like it's only there for the convenience of the crew, not the passenger.
 
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