Good News from the Empire State

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2014-10-21/schenectadys-15m-amtrak-station-upgrades-begin

SCHENECTADY, N.Y. (AP) — Work has begun on a $15 million project that will replace the Amtrak station in Schenectady and alleviate delays for passenger trains.

The Daily Gazette of Schenectady reports (http://bit.ly/1opybAT ) that construction crews have started work on a new platform that will allow for a second track to be built between Albany and Schenectady.....

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I don't understand how a new platform allows a second track to be built in the 15+ miles between ALB and SDY.there already is a double sided platform at SDY, and the SDY station is actually miles off the main CSX line from ALB to BUF on a branch line.

The additional track at Schenectady station will allow CSX local delivery moves, for which CSX has trackage rights and does make use of it quite regularly on the Hoffmans - Rensselaer line, to pass through the SDY station without passing on a platform track. This will allow the platform tracks to have high level platform. That is the only reasonable interpretation that I can see of the garbled presentation in the news article.

The Daily Gazette article is behind a paywall so I can't read it. The AP article does seem garbled.

I've been wondering for a while how on earth they're going to build the new Schenectady high-level platform while keeping the station in operation. Speculating, the reference to a "new platform" may be a temporary platform for use while the center platform is being replaced?

neroden said:

The Daily Gazette article is behind a paywall so I can't read it. The AP article does seem garbled.

I've been wondering for a while how on earth they're going to build the new Schenectady high-level platform while keeping the station in operation. Speculating, the reference to a "new platform" may be a temporary platform for use while the center platform is being replaced?

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Again speculating, that they will do it in two halves. They will first do the western half while operating trains only from the eastern half and then put the western half high level into commission and take the eastern half out of service and work on it. Or vice-versa. Just a guess.

It is good news that construction work is finally starting on the Schenectady station after years of delay. jis, do you know how long the high level platform at Schenectady will be? I did a limited search for documents or diagrams on the station project, but did not find documents with real details on the project.

I understand what you‘re saying, but that is not possible. The only way to get from the station (on the lower level) to the platform and track level (on the upper level) is via stairs or elevator. I haven't been there in a long time, but i think right now there is a 3rd track at the station, but that track turns north to Montreal and Rutland just north (1,000 feet or so) north of the station - along with one of the platform tracks via a switch.

the_traveler said:

I haven't been there in a long time, but i think right now there is a 3rd track at the station, but that track turns north to Montreal and Rutland just north (1,000 feet or so) north of the station - along with one of the platform tracks via a switch.

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This image, from 2012, seems to show two tracks. The Adirondack/Ethan Allen can use the right (north I think), while all westbound trains can use either.

edit: pic from http://subwaynut.com/amtrak/schenectady/schenectady83.jpg

I heard back from a well informed friend in NY State. There will be no additional tracks at the station in SDY. The high level platform will pretty much occupy the same place occupied by the current platform and is supposedly not going to be much longer than the current platform due to space constraints.

The photo above shows the 3 tracks that I mentioned. The eastbound trains (from BUF and CHI) use the track/platform on the left. Trains from NYP and ALB use the right side of the platform, headed either westbound or northbound. Trains headed southbound from MTR or RUT (like the train in the photo) use that middle track (right side of the platform). The far right track only turns north (Ex D&H freight line) has no platform.

keelhauled said:

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I *did* read in some documents that a universal crossover is planned north of the station, so that trains coming off the CP line can use either side of the platform. This would simplify Adirondack / Ethan Allen / Saratoga Racetrack Special operations. I don't know if this is still in the plans.

This would trim off the very end of the existing platform, but you couldn't really make that bit into a high platform anyway, not with the narrowness and the sharp curves.

Given the limited ways to get to the platform, I don't see any good way to rebuild half of it while shutting down the other half. In order to maintain ADA compliance (required), you'd have to shut down the side with the stairs first and put in the new elevator, then shut down the old elevator and replace that side with stairs. Trying to move all the passengers through the elevator would create a serious traffic flow bottleneck; being able to platform only a few cars would make the problem worse. Even worse, the stairs and elevator are right next to each other....

It looks like there used to be a second platform between what is now the "freight track" and the middle track, FWIW.

NY is *so* closed-mouthed about its projects. In most states, they would have published the current architectural plans. I'm left scratching my head.

I can't link to it, but the Albany Times Union said in a story it will be a new classical station fashioned like the 1908 SDY station. I don't know if it's true.

neroden said:

Given the limited ways to get to the platform, I don't see any good way to rebuild half of it while shutting down the other half. In order to maintain ADA compliance (required), you'd have to shut down the side with the stairs first and put in the new elevator, then shut down the old elevator and replace that side with stairs. Trying to move all the passengers through the elevator would create a serious traffic flow bottleneck; being able to platform only a few cars would make the problem worse. Even worse, the stairs and elevator are right next to each other....

It looks like there used to be a second platform between what is now the "freight track" and the middle track, FWIW.

NY is *so* closed-mouthed about its projects. In most states, they would have published the current architectural plans. I'm left scratching my head.

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I would agree, it looks to me like the basic infrastructure is there for a second platform. Weather or not there was one physically installed in the past is unknown to me, but those black rectangular shapes look like covers over existing stairway and/or elevator shafts to me.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Schenectady+Amtrak/@42.8144437,-73.9422835,201m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x89de6e05f19ef5a5:0x9a233988273fb4f1

Anyone else curious on if a temporary platform could not be created there so that the current one could be removed from service completely during reconstruction?

I don't believe so. From my memory, I don't believe the "tunnel" from the station does not extend beyond the stairs/elevator.

It would totally be possible to put a temporary platform there; the problem, of course, would be wheelchair access. I'm coming up with a dozen different possible construction staging plans, but I have no idea what they'll actually do. Frankly I wish they'd just published the actual construction staging plans (like they did for Rochester).

the_traveler said:

I don't believe so. From my memory, I don't believe the "tunnel" from the station does not extend beyond the stairs/elevator.

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I haven't done extensive research, but I will lay bets that the tunnel did extend to connect to a second platform back when Schenectady Union Station was built. I would expect that Schenectady *Union* Station would have had a platform for the D&H as well as a platform for the NYC, and the layout is correct for it. The access may have been closed off or even filled in a very long time ago, of course. But I would bet it was there originally.

Union Station was built in 1908 and closed in 1969. The current station is about 30 years old. I don't even know if it's in the same location.

Union Station was at the same location. Here is what it looked like in its heyday:





More pictures at http://gino.cdfw.net/TandS/Schenectady.htmlwhence the photos above are linked from.

The leftmost track and the second track from the right don't exist anymore, and the platforms at the two edges of the ROW don't exist anymore either. The second track from the left has been moved over some and the platform replaced with a new somewhat differently shaped one it seems.

According to http://www.greatamericanstations.com/Stations/SDY, the new station headhouse is going to be an 80,000 Sq Ft 4 story facility, which suggests that its footprint is going to be more in line with the original headhouse (around 20,000 Sq ft) than with the current one.

Those black boxes in the Google picture I think were put in place when the new station was built in the '70s with an intention to add a platform there, which was never built. They appear to occupy the space between the original 4th track and the D&H, but I wonder if a platform was ever built there or only provisions were made to build one. A photo from the '60s would help I suppose.

OK, that makes sense!

A little railroad history: The ALCO factory where they built the locomotives was only a mile or 2 north of the station, on that track that branches off to the right! (On the track that the train is on in the photo.) The track westbound to BUF and CHI turn left and cross the bridge.

Thanks for the research! That's a pretty odd original layout. I can see from overhead photos where the original eastside platform would have been.

I can't see where the westside platform would have been. It doesn't look like there's enough room! But if there was one, it indicates that there is room for one now. That's probably where the temporary platform will go during construction, as it's obviously the simplest location (no need to talk to CP / D&H).