You know Amtrak's "kindergarten walk" is ridiculous when

This is an excert from the article found here: http://www.vox.com/2014/3/31/5563600/everything-you-need-to-know-about-boarding-an-amtrak-train

I find this to be an excellent article as it is a humorous way of talking about something that seems rather bizarre.

Fair use brief:

In general, once one knows on which track a train will arrive, one goes to the adjacent platform and waits. When the train arrives, the doors will open and people who need to disembark will get off. Then you go through the open door and hop on the train. This process is seen at train stations around the world, including intercity trains everywhere from Brussels to Shanghai and mass transit trains such as the 1, 2, 3, A, C, and E New York City Subway lines at Penn Station and WMATA's Red Line at Union Station in Washington, DC.
At smaller stations such as New Haven, New Carrollton, or New Rochelle, Amtrak uses the same boarding procedure used by foreign intercity railroad operators and by commuter rail and mass transit rail systems in the United States.

This makes sense, since that's how one boards a train.

However, at larger stations, Amtrak chooses to ignore 150 years of accumulated human wisdom about boarding trains. So at Boston's South Station, New York's Penn Station, Philadelphia's 30th Street Station, and Washington's Union Station, people wishing to board intercity trains must go through a more elaborate process. You wait for your track to be called and then need to queue up — with each passenger presenting a ticket to an Amtrak staff member before you are allowed onto a platform. This is roughly how one boards an airplane in all countries, but it is not normally how one boards a train.

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Thoughts on the boarding procedures at Amtrak's large stations? Are there actual good reasons for this to be in place? I must say, I always found it very weird coming from Europe, but not really as inconveniencing. I guess if I ran into the station and wanted to buy a ticket on board then it would be an issue, because you can't if you depart from those stations.

Link to an article on insanity provided by Trainorders:

http://www.vox.com/2014/3/31/5563600/everything-you-need-to-know-about-boarding-an-amtrak-train

I thought I read a comment from Amtrak once that said they don't let people onto the platforms because they're to small for the large crowds they expect to have on them.

peter

Barciur said:

However, at larger stations, Amtrak chooses to ignore 150 years of accumulated human wisdom about boarding trains. So at Boston's South Station, New York's Penn Station, Philadelphia's 30th Street Station, and Washington's Union Station, people wishing to board intercity trains must go through a more elaborate process. You wait for your track to be called and then need to queue up with each passenger presenting a ticket to an Amtrak staff member before you are allowed onto a platform. This is roughly how one boards an airplane in all countries, but it is not normally how one boards a train.

Click to expand...

Thoughts on the boarding procedures at Amtrak's large stations? Are there actual good reasons for this to be in place? I must say, I always found it very weird coming from Europe, but not really as inconveniencing. I guess if I ran into the station and wanted to buy a ticket on board then it would be an issue, because you can't if you depart from those stations.

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I find the New York Penn process a genuine clusterfork. The only reason I figure the locals don't mind it is because they simply ignore Amtrak's convoluted boarding process and just do their own thing, occasionally playing catch me if you can with the AmPoFiveOh. I've never seen the "wait...wait...wait...RUN!!!...queue...queue...queue...RUN!!!" nonsense anywhere else in the world. It would seem that whenever Amtrak has enough control to do whatever they want they take their queues cues from the US airline industry rather than international passenger rail norms. Instead of taking advantage of quick and simple boarding that train travel can provide they make it feel more like you're boarding a flight. Although I have been known to single out NYP for derision the truth is that are many stations where Amtrak has trouble making the boarding experience quick and easy. Even here in San Antonio where the Texas Eagle is right there in front of everyone with no physical obstacles and no other trains competing for platform access. If you arrive early you'll be held back until just a few minutes before departure when the conductor will force everyone to line up and be processed one by one through a imaginary "gate" before they can approach the train itself. At which point you almost need to rush to reach your car and get completely situated before the train starts moving.

We had a similar discussion here - http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/57734-does-amtrak-know-how-trains-work/ - just in case anyone wants to peruse the points made in that thread. It was based on a different article.

I refuse to line up like a prisoner in a chain gang. Obtaining the services of a Redcap is the best $5 I can spend.

FriskyFL said:

I refuse to line up like a prisoner in a chain gang.

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A wee bit overstated, IYAM.

Reminds me that when I was a kid in NY in the '70s, of course they had no restrictions, and I found a way to get the track number before the passengers. I would go to Penn Station just to look at the Broadway before it left, biding my time before I actually got to ride it. Sometimes the porter would let us on to look at the rooms--generally the Slumbercoach, since that it is what I was destined to ride. Back then they still cooked with logs, so the smell before the traditional 4:55 departure was delicious.

fairviewroad said:

FriskyFL said:

I refuse to line up like a prisoner in a chain gang.

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A wee bit overstated, IYAM.

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No, on second thought, prison riot would be a better description, at least at NYP. My DW was almost shoved down an escalator several years ago. Chain gang would be at WAS or CHI.

This article was specific to the NEC, but in fact the Kindergarten Walk is used across the country. NYP is the only station that I can think of that has platform space limitations.

FriskyFL said:

fairviewroad said:

FriskyFL said:

I refuse to line up like a prisoner in a chain gang.

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A wee bit overstated, IYAM.

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No, on second thought, prison riot would be a better description, at least at NYP. My DW was almost shoved down an escalator several years ago. Chain gang would be at WAS or CHI.

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I see. So people waiting in line for an Amtrak train in Chicago and Washington are physically shackled to each other and are at risk of deadly force if they attempt to step out of line? Gotcha. Methinks someone just doesn't like lines, which is a perfectly reasonable position to take. But hyperbole doesn't help the cause. JMHO.

VentureForth said:

This article was specific to the NEC, but in fact the Kindergarten Walk is used across the country. NYP is the only station that I can think of that has platform space limitations.

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Washington's platforms are woefully insufficient.

In all honesty Kindergarten walk is the best description in most places. It's not that I don't like lines, I don't like being told exactly where to stand, exactly when to walk, etc. - it seems when the station agent simply says "coach passengers please proceed to location 5" that people end up where they need to be.

NYP gets a little tricky... I'm not exactly sure what the best solution would be. It's a pretty busy place.

Traditions die hard and Amtrak's policy of queing passengers by class is a carryover from passenger trains bak "in the day". All big union passenger terminals, be it New York, St. Louis, Kansas City and LA quued passengers at the same gate everyday--coach and Pullman pax in separate lines.

LAUS is comical today as Metrolink pax walk past Amtrak pax lined up behind the old Gate E & F (which are scheduled to be removed). to do their kindergarten walk. I see absolutely no reasaon for this at LA. Their platforms are plenty wide and well marked for the appropriate train. Nobody knows what Amtrak will do with the coach pax when they take their "gate" away. Of course the sleeper pax have the Metro Lounge.

I'm not familiar with Washington's platforms, but are they really that much narrower than European ones where nobody's ever heard of restrictions as such?

Here's an example from Warsaw to compare:

CoachSlumber said:

Reminds me that when I was a kid in NY in the '70s...

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Sometimes it seems like the 1970's were the last decade when US citizens were still allowed (and expected) to determine their own fate. You saw it in the big city and I saw it in a remote town where I was free to roam the switching yards and climb all over the hardware until it was time to go home. If I hurt myself I kept it to myself because I knew I'd be the one blamed for it, not the railroad. When the 1980's rolled around we started marching down the long road to Nancy's nanny state. Instead of protecting us from the actions of others our society chose to spend most of its time and effort trying to protect us from ourselves. Which is just about the last thing I'd expect a pro-freedom society to be worrying about.

TVRM610 said:

NYP gets a little tricky... I'm not exactly sure what the best solution would be. It's a pretty busy place.

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How about calmly checking tickets before it's time to board? How about calmly checking tickets on the train after boarding? NYP is a station where you're expected to stand around waiting for the carefully managed signage to update and then RUSH! RUSH! RUSH! with the rest of the clumsy mob at the last possible moment to your train. Only to be held up by indifferent gatekeepers as you approach some arbitrary choke point that slows the mob's mad dash into mad crawl. As you descend further and further down a packed escalator your stress level rises higher and higher. Meanwhile folks in the know are using redcaps or sneaking around the lower levels of the basement and onto their trains. Is this really the best solution anyone could come up with?

rusty spike said:

LAUS is comical today as Metrolink pax walk past Amtrak pax lined up behind the old Gate E & F (which are scheduled to be removed). to do their kindergarten walk. I see absolutely no reasaon for this at LA. Their platforms are plenty wide and well marked for the appropriate train. Nobody knows what Amtrak will do with the coach pax when they take their "gate" away.

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The sooner Amtrak lets go of the kindergarten nonsense the better it will be for almost everyone. If you're too young to know any better than to get hit by a train then your parent or guardian should be busy watching you, not Amtrak. If you're too old or clumsy or frail to avoid getting hit then maybe it's just your time to go. Amtrak shouldn't be in the "protecting you from yourself" business. If the courts need a new law to extricate Amtrak from that responsibility then so be it.

Barciur said:

I'm not familiar with Washington's platforms, but are they really that much narrower than European ones where nobody's ever heard of restrictions as such?

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Yes.

The platforms in WAS are less than half that wide.

They're also only accessed from the end closest to the station, creating a natural bottleneck.

NYP is my home station and I'd really love to know how to "sneak around in the basement" to board my train less stressfully!

Devil's Advocate said:

Barciur said:

However, at larger stations, Amtrak chooses to ignore 150 years of accumulated human wisdom about boarding trains. So at Boston's South Station, New York's Penn Station, Philadelphia's 30th Street Station, and Washington's Union Station, people wishing to board intercity trains must go through a more elaborate process. You wait for your track to be called and then need to queue up with each passenger presenting a ticket to an Amtrak staff member before you are allowed onto a platform. This is roughly how one boards an airplane in all countries, but it is not normally how one boards a train.

Click to expand...

Thoughts on the boarding procedures at Amtrak's large stations? Are there actual good reasons for this to be in place? I must say, I always found it very weird coming from Europe, but not really as inconveniencing. I guess if I ran into the station and wanted to buy a ticket on board then it would be an issue, because you can't if you depart from those stations.

Click to expand...

I find the New York Penn process a genuine clusterfork. The only reason I figure the locals don't mind it is because they simply ignore Amtrak's convoluted boarding process and just do their own thing, occasionally playing catch me if you can with the AmPoFiveOh. I've never seen the "wait...wait...wait...RUN!!!...queue...queue...queue...RUN!!!" nonsense anywhere else in the world. It would seem that whenever Amtrak has enough control to do whatever they want they take their queues cues from the US airline industry rather than international passenger rail norms. Instead of taking advantage of quick and simple boarding that train travel can provide they make it feel more like you're boarding a flight. Although I have been known to single out NYP for derision the truth is that are many stations where Amtrak has trouble making the boarding experience quick and easy. Even here in San Antonio where the Texas Eagle is right there in front of everyone with no physical obstacles and no other trains competing for platform access. If you arrive early you'll be held back until just a few minutes before departure when the conductor will force everyone to line up and be processed one by one through a imaginary "gate" before they can approach the train itself. At which point you almost need to rush to reach your car and get completely situated before the train starts moving.

Click to expand...

The boarding at SAS is pretty silly.

Devil's Advocate said:

TVRM610 said:

NYP gets a little tricky... I'm not exactly sure what the best solution would be. It's a pretty busy place.

Click to expand...

How about calmly checking tickets before it's time to board? How about calmly checking tickets on the train after boarding? NYP is a station where you're expected to stand around waiting for the carefully managed signage to update and then RUSH! RUSH! RUSH! with the rest of the clumsy mob at the last possible moment to your train. Only to be held up by indifferent gatekeepers as you approach some arbitrary choke point that slows the mob's mad dash into mad crawl. As you descend further and further down a packed escalator your stress level rises higher and higher. Meanwhile folks in the know are using redcaps or sneaking around the lower levels of the basement and onto their trains. Is this really the best solution anyone could come up with?

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I'm certain it's not the best solution. But NYP is just a crazy place. That's my point. There is no check point for NJ Transit trains but the crazy mad dash and stress points are still there. Actually it's less stressful for Amtrak since the check point creates a natural spacing on the escalators so you don't feel like you may be trampled.

Here's an example from Warsaw to compare:
Here's the much narrower Vienna Westbahnhof. No kindergarten walk here.



Here's the even narrower Salzburg Hbf. Still no queuing up.

I'm glad that Matt Yglesias is still pushing this issue. Someone at Amtrak might actually listen; he's got a reasonably large megaphone. He's completely right, of course.

mignyc said:

NYP is my home station and I'd really love to know how to "sneak around in the basement" to board my train less stressfully!

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You wait for the track to be called and go one level down to the exit concourse underneath the main concourse and go down the stairs to your platform. Try it at your own risk.

Millions negotiate the NYC subway platforms daily without kindergarten walks.

FriskyFL said:

Millions negotiate the NYC subway platforms daily without kindergarten walks.

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I've never seen a kindergarten walk in NYC... I've just seen a checkpoint where an Amtrak staff member checks the tickets. As I have noted, the boarding process is not any easier on the NJT side where there is no checkpoint. The problem at NYP is the physical nature of the station is not designed to handle the crowds. Hopefully in the distant future if the Moynihan Project becomes reality this can be worked.