Wireless internet: long-term trains

I was thinking about, next year, undertaking an "around the country" trip on Amtrak; something I have always wanted to do.

I was on the Amtrak website getting together what possible fares would be (sleeper car would be used on all trains), and even that wasn't enough to discourage me, and was about what I would expect. What did, was the lack of wireless internet on these long-distance trains. It appears as though Amtrak has them on shorter distance trains.

I can't understand why this would be so difficult on the longer trains if they arrange it on the shorter trains (seems baffling to me that in 2014 Amtrak isn't doing this), so my question is, does Amtrak have any timetables for when wireless might be on ALL trains? Any links on the topic that can be provided for me to look over?

As much as I'd love to do the trip, WiFi is a must on board.

This is a common topic! Any wireless on Amtrak is (currently) dependent on available cell coverage in the area. There are a lot of areas that have sketchy (or non-existant) cell coverage along the routes. I'm fine without WiFi and will utilize wireless coverage with my phone when it is available.

As more people chime in on this thread, you see that some use their wireless service to provide a "hot-spot" for their WiFi needs.

Part of the problem with providing wireless internet service on all trains is that it's dependent on cell coverage. On many short corridor routes, you can get coverage in (say) New York, Philadephia, Washington, Chicago, LA, etc..., but you will not have any in most of Montana, much of Nevada, much of West Texas, even parts of the Carolinas and northern California and southern Oregon!

Well... there are lots of places where you DO have cell coverage on those trains (notably all along the freeway corridors when they are close), and they just have not gone to the trouble and expense of outfitting the trains with Amtrak Connect hardware. This has long been a sore spot with me, because I don't have a phone with a data plan, and I am dependant on available wi-fi for my netbook. But perhaps it's difficult to retrofit the Superliner equipment? On the only Superliner train I've ridden with wi-fi, the Coast Starlight, the wi-fi is only in the Parlour Car.

This is not a make-or-break issue for me with riding LD trains, but I can see how it might be for some.

I use my Verizon Mi-Fi (hotspot) and it works in most places. It does not do well "in the middle of nowhere" nor does it work even in populated areas in western Maryland on the Capitol Limited.

oregon pioneer said:

Well... there are lots of places where you DO have cell coverage on those trains (notably all along the freeway corridors when they are close), and they just have not gone to the trouble and expense of outfitting the trains with Amtrak Connect hardware. This has long been a sore spot with me, because I don't have a phone with a data plan, and I am dependant on available wi-fi for my netbook. But perhaps it's difficult to retrofit the Superliner equipment? On the only Superliner train I've ridden with wi-fi, the Coast Starlight, the wi-fi is only in the Parlour Car.

This is not a make-or-break issue for me with riding LD trains, but I can see how it might be for some.

Click to expand...

Get a phone with a data plan.

The problem with putting WiFi on the long distance trains is that the passengers will gripe about the lack of service in areas that don't have cell coverage. They won't buy into the explanation that cell coverage is poor. That is the experience where there are a few cell deadspots in the northeast. On the NEC Amtrak may be building its own wayside repeaters to for better service than the cells.

On my recent EB voyage on #7 I had G3 from Verizon all the way to Willisten,, then it was spotty when we were stopped,,,,

pennyk said:

I use my Verizon Mi-Fi (hotspot) and it works in most places. It does not do well "in the middle of nowhere" nor does it work even in populated areas in western Maryland on the Capitol Limited.

Click to expand...

It completely astonished me that I had less service interruptions in the New Mexico desert on the SWC than I did in the backwoods of Maryland/West Virginia on the Capitol. There was at least an hour, maybe two with no reliable service from Verizon. So now I know not to expect too much until or after Pittsburgh.

I mentioned this to my car attendant and he said, "Well, this is what you would call 'Deliverance' country" and I was all oh, okay, sure that makes sense.

HAl said:

Get a phone with a data plan.

Click to expand...

A simple answer to a complicated problem. Got any suggestions for cost-effective data plans for someone who would use it about an hour a week when not on a trip?

There is no cell service where I live. Therefore, I have the cheapest cell phone I can find. It's a "dumb phone" and the plan does not include data.

If there's a cost-effective way for everyone on the train to provide their own data service, of course, it would be unneccessary for Amtrak to provide it for the train.

oregon pioneer said:

HAl said:

Get a phone with a data plan.

Click to expand...

A simple answer to a complicated problem. Got any suggestions for cost-effective data plans for someone who would use it about an hour a week when not on a trip?

There is no cell service where I live. Therefore, I have the cheapest cell phone I can find. It's a "dumb phone" and the plan does not include data.

If there's a cost-effective way for everyone on the train to provide their own data service, of course, it would be unneccessary for Amtrak to provide it for the train.

Click to expand...

Have you looked into MiFi? You can buy "days" of the data plan. Ok, maybe not days, but a month at a time. I can understand if this is not cost effective for you either.

The fact that Amtrak essentially does not have WiFi on LD trains does not prevent me from enjoying the relaxation and cost-effective aspect of train travel or keeping in touch when needed. When I travel LD trains, I rarely have a problem with connectivity. I have had good luck with cell service on eastern LD trains. I use my cell phone to stay in touch and surf the net and when the connectivity is limited, I occupy my time by relaxing or by clipping a movie into my laptop.

If a cell signal is low, such as it may be occasionally in spots on western LD trains, I wait until the train approaches the next population center. Then I use the cell service. IMHO the occasional delays in connectivity on LD trains is not a problem. Before cell phones were popular, I used Amtrak as an escape to travel on weekends to where I needed to be and not be bothered by people for a few days at a time. I got a big kick out of "disappearing" and showing up in California, New York, Florida or Texas for sales meetings, without someone tracking me down at an airport ticket counter or hotel telephone and disturbing my quiet time!

Use your cell phone to connect to the net when you feel the need, but definitely escape on Amtrak!

Really, it would make sense to equip the single-level long-distance fleet at least. There aren't many areas with poor service on the LSL, Silver Star, Silver Meteor, or Crescent routes (the Cardinal is another matter entirely).

The procedure on the short-distance trains has been to set up the "hub" in the cafe car, and then wire it along to the other cars. Well, they've already done the Amfleet I cafes and coaches; converting the 25 Amfleet II cafes and the rest of the Amfleet II coaches is therefore straightforward, and it's not that many conversions. The Viewliners might need some design work, but you'd think it would be simple enough.

I have an AT&T MiFi. It works well when the signal is strong. I'm presently using it now while traveling

on the Silver Meteor outside of Washington DC. Yesterday I was on the Adirondack, that had WiFi, but

the service was almost non-existent. I tried my MiFi and was able to get intermittent signals, but in upstate

NY north of Albany, the cell coverage was very poor.

justinslot said:

It completely astonished me that I had less service interruptions in the New Mexico desert on the SWC than I did in the backwoods of Maryland/West Virginia on the Capitol. There was at least an hour, maybe two with no reliable service from Verizon. So now I know not to expect too much until or after Pittsburgh.

I mentioned this to my car attendant and he said, "Well, this is what you would call 'Deliverance' country" and I was all oh, okay, sure that makes sense.

Click to expand...

In the NM desert, you have much larger valleys and open areas with line of sight to cell towers. In MD, WV, and SE PA, you going though narrow valleys, more compact "folded" terrain with mountain ridges, and dense foliage to attenuate signals from cell towers when there is a line of sight to a cell phone tower. If you know how cell phone systems work and how radio frequency signals propagate, it would not be a surprise that there would be frequent no or very poor reception zones going through the Appalachian mountains.
Central and western PA, western MD, WV, much of VA outside of the more populated areas, and possibly western NC are going to be very spotty for cell phone 3G/4G data connections and thus on-board WiFi service if or when Amtrak adds WiFi to the eastern LD trains.

For Amtrak to add WiFi to the LD trains, they will have to install WiFi on 429 Superliners, 145 Amfleet IIs, and 51 Viewliner I cars. That is not going to be inexpensive in equipment and man-hours to do so. There are many pressing needs for capital expenditures from paying for the 130 Viewliners IIs, rolling stock maintenance and overhauls, and modernizing the NEC. My guess, BTW, is that the new Viewliner IIs will have at least WiFi repeaters installed because it should simple to add them as the cars are built.

I have noted this before in a few of the multiple threads on adding WiFi to the LD trains that in the FY14 budget and FY14-18 Five year financial plan document that it states that WiFi is to be extended system wide including the LD fleet. But it is does not provide a timeline for doing so. The reality is that if Amtrak does add 3G/4G based WiFi to the LD trains that there will be long dropouts.

There will also be many times when there is a good signal, that data link won't be able to handle the bandwidth demands of 100 to 200 people on the train all trying to access the net. This is a problem on the NEC passing mostly through densely to moderately populated areas. In remote areas, even if a cell phone tower has been modernized with 3G or 4G, why would it have built with the capacity to handle high data bandwidth demand from a passing Amtrak train in an rural area where it would normally see only a small number of simultaneous phone connections? Amtrak can add free Wi-Fi to the LD trains, but the on-board crew will have to deal with unhappy passengers who refuse to understand the difference in cell and WiFi connections between Mid-town Manhattan and the valleys of WV.

oregon pioneer said:

HAl said:

Get a phone with a data plan.

Click to expand...

A simple answer to a complicated problem. Got any suggestions for cost-effective data plans for someone who would use it about an hour a week when not on a trip?

There is no cell service where I live. Therefore, I have the cheapest cell phone I can find. It's a "dumb phone" and the plan does not include data.

If there's a cost-effective way for everyone on the train to provide their own data service, of course, it would be unnecessary for Amtrak to provide it for the train.

Click to expand...

There are prepay Wifi hot spots. Also prepay phones. You can buy data when you need it. Or you can get a tablet like an iPad that has a cell modem built in. There is a cell modem version of the iPad. You can buy data when you need it. Without a contract.

There being no cell service where you live not having a cell phone with a data plan where you live is ironic. Amtrak WiFi connects to cell towers so if there is no cell service there is no data. So if Amtrak says it has WiFi but they can't provide a connection because there is no cell coverage it becomes an issue since passengers expect to connect to the internet over the WiFi if there is WiFi on the train. They don't care about dead spots.

The ones who use the WiFi on trains are those who have Laptops or iPads or other brand tablets that don't have a cell modem built in. There are many using it. Say on a train of 300 there are 75 to 100 using it. That is the usual number. Don't ask how I exactly know but refer back to what I said about passenger expectations and complaints about the service. Usually if an inquiry is made the answer from the provider is that it is working and they give the number connected. A lot of times on the NEC the issue is operator error by the user or a momentary dead spot.

AmtrakBlue said:

oregon pioneer said:

HAl said:

Get a phone with a data plan.

Click to expand...

A simple answer to a complicated problem. Got any suggestions for cost-effective data plans for someone who would use it about an hour a week when not on a trip?
There is no cell service where I live. Therefore, I have the cheapest cell phone I can find. It's a "dumb phone" and the plan does not include data.

If there's a cost-effective way for everyone on the train to provide their own data service, of course, it would be unneccessary for Amtrak to provide it for the train.

Click to expand...

Have you looked into MiFi? You can buy "days" of the data plan. Ok, maybe not days, but a month at a time. I can understand if this is not cost effective for you either.

Click to expand...

My iPad has cellular data capability, but I only buy data ($30) for the 1 month of my trips. I don't pay $30 every month. It also has wifi capability, so I use my home wifi the rest of the time.

This may not help you and I have no idea how much you pay for your dumbphone service but I going to put this info here anyway - someone else might benefit.

You can buy a prepaid Verizon smartphone and sign up for their new $45/month ALLSET plan that gives you unlimited talk & text and 500 MB of data.
The best thing with this new plan is that your phone also becomes a Mobile Hotspot that can share data with up to 5 compatible devices.

After you've signed up for Verizon's ALLSET plan you have the option to add data with bridge data:
$5/500 MB good for 30 days
$10/1 GB good for 90 days
$20/3 GB good for 90 days

500 MB is more than enough for reading email, browsing online, google maps, glympse, etc.

I used to carry a MiFi - one with T-Mobile and one with Virgin and the coverage was absolutely horrible compared to Verizon which, imo, has the best coverage of all the carriers.

I also paid more just for crappy coverage with those MiFis - no phone, talk, text.

There's no way way you're going to be able to stream with a mifi or hot spot so download your movies and music to your device(s) before you leave.

This is the phone I have and I love it.
4.5" screen Android
LG Exceed 2 phone - $50 from Best Buy with free shipping
BTW, the same phone is $80 from Verizon and at Walmart.

Here's the scoop from Verizon
Verizon AllSET $45/month unlinited talk & text and 500 MB Data

Good suggestions, thanks everyone. It appears that by the time Amtrak gets around to wiring the western LD trains for wi-fi, almost everyone will have a smartphone and not need to use it.

Of course, if 100 people on the train wanted to access the wi-fi, it would be very slow. I have never expected to do more than check my email on train wi-fi, even when it's "working." For an extra $15 a month to check it with my own phone, that's pretty expensive email for my budget.

MiRider, to get that "bridge data" do you have to first have a monthly plan? Who is it available from?

HAL, I'm sure you find it ironic that I have no cell service at my home, but you would probably not find it so surprising if you knew that I live 100 miles from the nearest freeway, and 200 miles by road from the nearest Amtrak station, surrounded by 6-9,000' high mountains. Yes, the middle of eastern Oregon is one of the blank spaces on the map for many things, including cell service. Many people wouldn't care to be so remote, but I love it and rarely feel the need to leave. When I do go outside my region, it's always my first choice to go by Amtrak. :wub:

Orangesaint said:

I was thinking about, next year, undertaking an "around the country" trip on Amtrak; something I have always wanted to do.

I was on the Amtrak website getting together what possible fares would be (sleeper car would be used on all trains), and even that wasn't enough to discourage me, and was about what I would expect. What did, was the lack of wireless internet on these long-distance trains. It appears as though Amtrak has them on shorter distance trains.

I can't understand why this would be so difficult on the longer trains if they arrange it on the shorter trains (seems baffling to me that in 2014 Amtrak isn't doing this), so my question is, does Amtrak have any timetables for when wireless might be on ALL trains? Any links on the topic that can be provided for me to look over?

As much as I'd love to do the trip, WiFi is a must on board.

Click to expand...

Its also a matter of who is paying for it. The California corridor trains had the wifi's paid for by the State to have them installed.

In today's environment of cost cutting due to not enough money to go around, I would rather see Amtrak spend their limited dollars on amenities which are impossible or very difficult the customer to provide themselves. I am already connected as are the vast majority of people.

That's long been my opinion on the matter. Free wifi is great, but once you skim off the people that are already connected and the people that have no desire to be connected, you're just left with the people in the middle.

oregon pioneer said:

MiRider, to get that "bridge data" do you have to first have a monthly plan? Who is it available from?

Click to expand...

The bridge data is available after you sign up for Verizon's ALLSET plan.

I've edited my post to reflect that.

MiRider said:

oregon pioneer said:

MiRider, to get that "bridge data" do you have to first have a monthly plan? Who is it available from?

Click to expand...

The bridge data is available after you sign up for Verizon's ALLSET plan.

I've edited my post to reflect that.

Click to expand...

MIRider, thanks for your posts. I currently do not have a smart phone, but have a Verizon mi-fi. I am considering the ALLSET plan.

RyanS said:

That's long been my opinion on the matter. Free wifi is great, but once you skim off the people that are already connected and the people that have no desire to be connected, you're just left with the people in the middle.

Click to expand...

It's actually a very large group of people.

More to the point, it's a group of people who don't need high bandwidth. I don't use free WiFi as a toy when I'm on a trip, I use it pretty much only when I need to do a specific piece of research or make an online transaction. Some stuff is getting harder and harder to do by phone. For this, frankly the text-only web should suffice.