Amtrak serving Suburban Station

Advertise with us
shop deals on amazon
Shop deals on ebay
Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
The Keystone trains that served Suburban Station did not continue on to NYP. They would have had to reverse course

because at the time they operated, there was no Center City connector.

This whole article seems to be a solution in search of a problem. Center City Philadelphia has plenty of connectivity

with the NEC already, with the free transfer from Amtrak to Septa between 30th Street and Market East.

Also, while I agree that "Suburban Station" is far from a charming name, his proposal to rename it City Hall station is flawed

because the station isn't actually underneath City Hall. Yes, it's connected by underground concourses, but locals

would know the difference.
 
I'm not exactly sure how they intend to to connect to the rest of the NEC. The only thing I can see is run some kind of new "Clocker" service out of Suburban, through 30th St. then up the NEC at the rush hours.

[EDIT] Looking at the timetable, I could also see running the Keystones that originate/terminate at PHL into/from Suburban because why not?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MattW said:
I'm not exactly sure how they intend to to connect to the rest of the NEC. The only thing I can see is run some kind of new "Clocker" service out of Suburban, through 30th St. then up the NEC at the rush hours.

[EDIT] Looking at the timetable, I could also see running the Keystones that originate/terminate at PHL into/from Suburban because why not?
Click to expand...
I would agree with this suggestion....run maybe a Clocker or two during rush hours to or from Suburban Station, to see if it would 'carry'....

The whole idea sounds kind of like the old Broad Street Station...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broad_Street_Station_(Philadelphia) :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Of course we shall not worry about the fact that there are no slots available at rush hours for these trains to make it all the way to New York, unless some other Amtrak service to New York is discontinued.

This comes up every five years or so. My current fearless prediction is it won't happen unless SEPTA and NJT take it upon themselves to do a joint venture together. Amtrak gladly got out of the Clocker business. Why would they suddenly want to re-enter?

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I got the impression the article was written by someone with the thought of "hey, why don't they do it this way" with no realization on what would be involved to accomplish it.

There was another article about a year or so ago discussing the new High Speed Rail line, and how it should be expected to stop at Philly International Airport that I felt was also just as unrealistic.
 
Slightly off topic, but I remember as a child when we lived in Philadelphia and would ride the Broadway Limited to Chicago my parents chose to board North Philly a couple of times. That memory made me smile!
 
Rob Creighton said:
Slightly off topic, but I remember as a child when we lived in Philadelphia and would ride the Broadway Limited to Chicago my parents chose to board North Philly a couple of times. That memory made me smile!
Click to expand...
Well if they rode the Broadway Limited then North Philly is the only station in Philly where they could board it. Broadway Limited did not stop anywhere else in the Philly area.
 
jis said:
Rob Creighton said:
Slightly off topic, but I remember as a child when we lived in Philadelphia and would ride the Broadway Limited to Chicago my parents chose to board North Philly a couple of times. That memory made me smile!
Click to expand...
Well if they rode the Broadway Limited then North Philly is the only station in Philly where they could board it. Broadway Limited did not stop anywhere else in the Philly area.
Click to expand...
The PRR Broadway Limited also stopped in Paoli.- New York

- Newark

- North Philadelphia

- Paoli

- Harrisburg

- Altoona

- Pittsburgh

- Crestline

- Fort Wayne

- Englewood

- Chicago
 
Last edited by a moderator:
BTW those are post 1958 stops. It stopped at many fewer places (namely Fort Wayne only between Englewood and Harrisburg before then)

Indeed you are correct. I stand corrected. I did not realize how many more stops the Broadway Limited had compared to the 20th Century Limited even before 1958. I know after 1958 in terms of stops it became a pretty pedestrian train even though it remained Sleeper only. 20th Century was strictly non stop between Croton and Englewood apparently, though I am sure it had a service stop or two on the way.

Incidentally I noticed that for 10 Sleepers ( 9 NYP - CHI and 1 through to LAX via the Super Chief) the Broadway Limited had a twin unit Diner. I guess the general rule of 5 Sleepers to a Diner that seems to be followed by VIA for the Canadian has along history! :)

One interesting tidbit I noticed is that Indian Railways pretty much manages a erstwhile Broadway Limited like schedule (similar distance, similar running time) for the New Delhi - Howrah (Kolkata) Rajdhani Express with some 11 stops en-route these days with a 18 car train pulled by a single electric engine (all Sleeper, no Dining Car, usually two Pantry Cars, food served at ones accommodation). The ostensibly non-stop Duronto Express is a tad bit faster, but has huge amounts of padding all over the place.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MattW said:
[EDIT] Looking at the timetable, I could also see running the Keystones that originate/terminate at PHL into/from Suburban because why not?
Click to expand...
I would say the "why not" is that these trains would arrive (and more importantly, leave) from a different section of 30th Street Station

than the thru-trains to/from NYP. IMO that needlessly introduces an element of confusion. Daily commuters would quickly adapt,

of course, but mostly the public associates the "lower" concourse with Amtrak (and NJT to a much lesser extent) and the "upper" concourse

with SEPTA. One can easily see people missing their train because they went to the wrong concourse. Yes, adequate signage would

ameliorate this problem, but someone rushing to catch a train at the last-minute shouldn't have to worry about which part of the station

they need to dash to. Just MHO.
 
jis said:
BTW those are post 1958 stops. It stopped at many fewer places (namely Fort Wayne only between Englewood and Harrisburg before then)

Indeed you are correct. I stand corrected. I did not realize how many more stops the Broadway Limited had compared to the 20th Century Limited even before 1958. I know after 1958 in terms of stops it became a pretty pedestrian train even though it remained Sleeper only. 20th Century was strictly non stop between Croton and Englewood apparently, though I am sure it had a service stop or two on the way.

Incidentally I noticed that for 10 Sleepers ( 9 NYP - CHI and 1 through to LAX via the Super Chief) the Broadway Limited had a twin unit Diner. I guess the general rule of 5 Sleepers to a Diner that seems to be followed by VIA for the Canadian has along history! :)

One interesting tidbit I noticed is that Indian Railways pretty much manages a erstwhile Broadway Limited like schedule (similar distance, similar running time) for the New Delhi - Howrah (Kolkata) Rajdhani Express with some 11 stops en-route these days with a 18 car train pulled by a single electric engine (all Sleeper, no Dining Car, usually two Pantry Cars, food served at ones accommodation). The ostensibly non-stop Duronto Express is a tad bit faster, but has huge amounts of padding all over the place.
Click to expand...
Those stops came from a 1954 timetable. Those were the stops made by the Broadway as long as I can remember or research. I believe that most were crew change points. The NYC may have decided to not allow passenger boardings at their crew change stops. It appears that the PRR did, even though I doubt Crestline OH generated much traffic.
For westbounds, all stops from New York through Altoona were boarding only. Pittsburgh was boarding and alighting. All the stops west of Pittsburgh were alighting only. Eastbound was the opposite. Once the Broadway was eliminated by the PRR (the Sleeper-only version), the PRR General was renamed the Broadway Limited, but it was Broadway Limited in name only. It ran on the General's schedule, made the General's stops, and even took the General's train numbers. Walks like a duck, quacks...

Paoli was an important stop for the Broadway Limited because the PRR executives lived on the "Main Line." Paoli was their station.
 
Those stops listed from Harrisburg thru Fort Wayne were division points or crew change stops for the Broadway. The traffic restrictions mentioned, changed from time to time. At one point everyone boarding at New York on the Broadway (and the Century), had to be destined to Englewood or Chicago.

The Century did indeed have to make "technical stops" for crew changes and/or servicing enroute...at places like Cleveland, it bypassed the Cleveland Union Terminal, and ran via the lakefront route that the Lakeshore uses currently, stopping at the yard for crew change. Of course it stopped at Croton-Harmon to swap locomotives. It also stopped at Albany, Syracuse, Buffalo, Toledo, and Elkhart for crew change. In the steam era, it utilized track pans to scoop up water on-the-fly.

Where it handled passenger's, like the Broadway, varied.
 
Thanks railner. That's what I thought. In general pre-early to mid 1950s they had very few passenger stops. after that many service stops got converted to passenger stops, until they resembled something like the Amtrak Broadway and Lake Shore Limiteds.
 
jis said:
Rob Creighton said:
Slightly off topic, but I remember as a child when we lived in Philadelphia and would ride the Broadway Limited to Chicago my parents chose to board North Philly a couple of times. That memory made me smile!
Click to expand...
Well if they rode the Broadway Limited then North Philly is the only station in Philly where they could board it. Broadway Limited did not stop anywhere else in the Philly area.
Click to expand...
Looked in the Museum of Railway Timetables for my own amusement:

In the '75 time table the New York section stopped only in North Philly... the Washington section went directly to Harrisburg after Baltimore.

In the 76 time table the Washington section is listed at stopping at Philadelphia and Paoli while the New York section went to Harrisburg after Trenton.

1977 the New York section of the Broadway stopped at North Philly and the Washington section stopped at 30th Street station and Paoli.

In 1980 it seems they were combining both sections of the Broadway at 30th Street Station and stopped stopping in North Philly.

I might be inclined to keep going, but, I think I actually should start my work day!
 
Until Amtrak Day, the PC (PRR) Washington to Chicago trains used the NEC, then the old Northern Central line from Baltimore thru York to Harrisburg...

When Amtrak started, the trains used the NEC and the "Port Road" from Baltimore to Harrisburg. Then when the Capitol started, they went that way on the B&O directly from Washington via Rockville and Cumberland to Pittsburgh. So Baltimore no longer had direct service to the west after that, unless you would include the Cardinal....
 
fairviewroad said:
The Keystone trains that served Suburban Station did not continue on to NYP. They would have had to reverse course

because at the time they operated, there was no Center City connector.

This whole article seems to be a solution in search of a problem. Center City Philadelphia has plenty of connectivity

with the NEC already, with the free transfer from Amtrak to Septa between 30th Street and Market East.

Also, while I agree that "Suburban Station" is far from a charming name, his proposal to rename it City Hall station is flawed

because the station isn't actually underneath City Hall. Yes, it's connected by underground concourses, but locals

would know the difference.
Click to expand...

Atlantic Avenue- Barclays Center isnt under Barclays Center.

The current LAX station on Green line isnt anywhere near LAX terminals.
 
Call it "City Hall Suburban Station", not to be confused with "City Hall Metro Station" :)

Incidentally, 15th St on the Market-Frankford *really* should be renamed City Hall.
 
Shawn Ryu said:
fairviewroad said:
The Keystone trains that served Suburban Station did not continue on to NYP. They would have had to reverse course

because at the time they operated, there was no Center City connector.

This whole article seems to be a solution in search of a problem. Center City Philadelphia has plenty of connectivity

with the NEC already, with the free transfer from Amtrak to Septa between 30th Street and Market East.

Also, while I agree that "Suburban Station" is far from a charming name, his proposal to rename it City Hall station is flawed

because the station isn't actually underneath City Hall. Yes, it's connected by underground concourses, but locals

would know the difference.
Click to expand...

Atlantic Avenue- Barclays Center isnt under Barclays Center.

The current LAX station on Green line isnt anywhere near LAX terminals.
Click to expand...
True and true. But those are urban transit stops, which often follow different naming conventions. "Suburban Station" is a commuter

rail station. I know, perhaps I'm grasping at straws...I don't like "Suburban Station" but to Philly transit riders, the name "City Hall" station

conjures up images of the dank, musty, crumbling station on the Broad Street Line. Perhaps both names should be scrapped and the

whole complex be named "Central Crossing" or something like that.

BTW, here's a short article on some renovation work that's being done on the street level in that area. Get this:

[Dilworth Plaza] features sloping glass entrances to the transit system beneath it, plus gardens, trees, and a lawn. No doubt a focal point will be a brilliant work of public art by Janet Echelman, which will trace train movements at the underground station in real time with colored lights and mist.
Click to expand...
How cool is that?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top