Disparity in AGR Rewards

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VentureForth

Engineer
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
6,430
Location
West Melbourne, FL
Blech.

I can redeem two 15,000 pt rewards for a nice RT up and down the NEC in a roomette - but I can only get as far as New York (without going back towards Chicago on the LSL). Could never get more than a single night onboard. Rest of any trip - if it were even a legal reservation - on anything else up to BOS, MTL, anywhere in Vermont or Maine would be a wasted use of points because I would get only Business Class, at best.

On the other hand, I can travel all the way to Albuquerque, El Paso, Denver or Wolf Point for a mere 33% more redemption for 3 nights onboard!

Amtrak needs more sleepers going through Vermont and Maine, as well as on the Maple Leaf and the Adirondack.

Better transfers in NYP would be nice, too.

Yes - none of this will happen. No eqiupment. No money. I don't mind a nice R/T to ABQ, but don't think my wife would hack it much.
 
True this VF!!!! Once the Viewliner IIs enter service, #66/#67 needs a Sleeper and/or one of the Silver Trains could be extended to Boston from NYP!! The Broadway Ltd needs to be brought back to life via the Penn/Cap connection and then a Daily Cardinal could start but run to STL instead of CHI!

Also AGR should look @ giving those of you who live in between ATL and NOL and the SE a break on booking Awards that don't penalize those going from ATL to the West Coast! ( ie make it a 2 Zone Award via WAS, not a 3 Zone! This would eliminate having to do a Layover in NOL on your dime!) Common sense and Fair!
 
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I agree that it's hard to go from the Silvers and get 2 overnights on a 1 zone award - but it's not impossible.

Last year, i went from FL to CHI via NYP. This year I'm going from FL to CA via WAS. In both these examples, a trip from FL to either CLE or TOL is a 1 zone award and gives 2 nights in a sleeper. While true that going to BOS, VT, MTR or Toronto only gives BC, those trains only offer coach and BC. (In fact, the Adirondack doesn't even offer BC - only coach.)
 
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True this VF!!!! Once the Viewliner IIs enter service, #66/#67 needs a Sleeper and/or one of the Silver Trains could be extended to Boston from NYP!! The Broadway Ltd needs to be brought back to life via the Penn/Cap connection and then a Daily Cardinal could start but run to STL instead of CHI!

Also AGR should look @ giving those of you who live in between ATL and NOL and the SE a break on booking Awards that don't penalize those going from ATL to the West Coast! ( ie make it a 2 Zone Award via WAS, not a 3 Zone! This would eliminate having to do a Layover in NOL on your dime!) Common sense and Fair!
I'd imagine that the Silver Meteor would probably be the best candidate, due to scheduling. Maybe they should do a through sleeper first on a regional train to test the concept? It would be great if 66/67 could get a sleeper again. No one wants to be forced to go up-corridor overnight in a standard seat.

Daily Cardinal? YES! Reroute to STL? No.

I don't want to be cut off from connections in Chicago (I live in CIN for part of the year).
 
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I agree that it's hard to go from the Silvers and get 2 overnights on a 1 zone award - but it's not impossible.

Last year, i went from FL to CHI via NYP. This year I'm going from FL to CA via WAS. In both these examples, a trip from FL to either CLE or TOL is a 1 zone award and gives 2 nights in a sleeper. While true that going to BOS, VT, MTR or Toronto only gives BC, those trains only offer coach and BC. (In fact, the Adirondack doesn't even offer BC - only coach.)
That's some good info for CLE and TOL. Unfortunately (sorry to Ohioans), neither of those two destinations are on my bucket list. :(

We really need a SE to NW train. Bring back the Nancy Hanks II through ATL to Chattanooga, Louisville, et. al. :D
 
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I'm glad that they've kept the Silver Trains as one-zone rewards. It annoys me that the CL and the LSL are two-zone rewards. I guess I can see why with the LSL (limited space, and high sleeper prices), but when a roomette on the CL usually costs between $200-300, I can't justify spending 20,000 points for it. My goal when it comes to rewards points is to try to maximize the value of each point. I won't spend points if they are worth less than $0.02 per point for a particular reservation. Something in the range of $0.03-0.05 is ideal.
 
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I agree about WAS-CHI being 20K, but WAS to DEN or ABQ or DAL or MSP or NOL (via CHI) cost the same 20K.
That is a pretty clear example of where the current zone boundaries just don't make sense. Maybe they should modify the one-size fits all zone map so that it can better be applied to individual routes. Another good example is the CS. SEA to LAX is one-zone, for a 35 hour train trip. I don't want the cost for that route to go up, obviously, but it's silly that an 18 hour CL trip from WAS to CHI costs 5000 more.
 
Currently, I'm not a big fan of spending15k points to go out west via TPA-TOL or TPA-CIN or TPA -ATL. And the thought of taking the Sunset Limited TPA-NOL,(if it's ever brought back to service) is even less appealling!
 
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I'd like to see one zone defined as it is now with the addition that travel solely on a single train be considered one zone. So Cardinal end to end would be one zone and so would SL and EB. Boston to Indianapolis via NE Regional to NYP then Cardinal would be two zones. Even though NYC to Indy would be one zone (single train). For the Boston trip, user could pay for BOS to NYP or from Cincinnati to Indy.
 
or instead of zone, price it based on published mileage, 1 mile = 1 point etc. , those SPI->WAS->NOL or similar routes will no longer be feasible.
 
That would completely change the program. I think that the revenue model for points earning is better than a distance model in this case.

I still think that AGR is one of the better travel rewards programs out there. On the airlines, good luck getting a low bucket reward. With Amtrak, they don't have rewards buckets that require you to pay more points for the same ticket, depending on how close you are to departure, and how many spaces are left. If there's a space available, it costs the same, points-wise, 6 months from departure as it does the day before.
 
I still think that AGR is one of the better travel rewards programs out there. On the airlines, good luck getting a low bucket reward. With Amtrak, they don't have rewards buckets that require you to pay more points for the same ticket, depending on how close you are to departure, and how many spaces are left. If there's a space available, it costs the same, points-wise, 6 months from departure as it does the day before.
I agree, William.

Also AGR should look @ giving those of you who live in between ATL and NOL and the SE a break on booking Awards that don't penalize those going from ATL to the West Coast! ( ie make it a 2 Zone Award via WAS, not a 3 Zone! This would eliminate having to do a Layover in NOL on your dime!) Common sense and Fair!
Jim, please go to work for AGR. :) Yes, we in the SE (ATL and southwest of it) must head northeast before going west as it now stands, and pay for an extra zone in doing so. And sometimes, like on my recent trip, the routing through NOL is not even allowed in AGR, so there's really no choice.

Of course, I liked our itinerary as we just wanted train time and well-timed layovers to do a little sight-seeing, so I can't complain about that mega-points trip.
 
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I'd like to see one zone defined as it is now with the addition that travel solely on a single train be considered one zone. So Cardinal end to end would be one zone and so would SL and EB. Boston to Indianapolis via NE Regional to NYP then Cardinal would be two zones. Even though NYC to Indy would be one zone (single train). For the Boston trip, user could pay for BOS to NYP or from Cincinnati to Indy.
So basically any city on the NEC (excepting BOS, NYP and was) pay a penalty? That isn't really fair that I would have a penalty in PVD because no LD trains service my town. So BOS-chi on LSL is one zone but PVD -chi is two? That's even crazier than it stands now.
 
How about if you live/start in Hartford, CT going to CHI. If you go via SPG, you pay 1 zone to SPG and another on the LSL. If you go via NYP or WAS, you pay 1 zone on the shuttle, a second on the regional to NYP or WAS then a 3rd to CHI!
 
Jim, please go to work for AGR. :) Yes, we in the SE (ATL and southwest of it) must head northeast before going west as it now stands, and pay for an extra zone in doing so. And sometimes, like on my recent trip, the routing through NOL is not even allowed in AGR, so there's really no choice.

Of course, I liked our itinerary as we just wanted train time and well-timed layovers to do a little sight-seeing, so I can't complain about that mega-points trip.
That's not an AGR, that's an operations problem for not publishing the logical route.

If you really want to keep such trips to a one-zone, you can always pay to get to NOL and start your award there. Sleepers on that end of the Crescent are notoriously cheap due to low demand.
 
I'd like to see one zone defined as it is now with the addition that travel solely on a single train be considered one zone. So Cardinal end to end would be one zone and so would SL and EB. Boston to Indianapolis via NE Regional to NYP then Cardinal would be two zones. Even though NYC to Indy would be one zone (single train). For the Boston trip, user could pay for BOS to NYP or from Cincinnati to Indy.
So basically any city on the NEC (excepting BOS, NYP and was) pay a penalty? That isn't really fair that I would have a penalty in PVD because no LD trains service my town. So BOS-chi on LSL is one zone but PVD -chi is two? That's even crazier than it stands now.
You do have a problem reading:

I'd like to see one zone defined as it is now with the addition that...

Addition that... Understand? The example I gave is one that crosses zone boundaries. That is why I used it. It would give an additional benefit to those using points for ONLY one train. It would not take away any benefits. It has nothing to do with the NEC as it would be the same as transferring from any other train (say the Crescent or Silvers). Sheesh!
 
Jim, please go to work for AGR. :) Yes, we in the SE (ATL and southwest of it) must head northeast before going west as it now stands, and pay for an extra zone in doing so. And sometimes, like on my recent trip, the routing through NOL is not even allowed in AGR, so there's really no choice.

Of course, I liked our itinerary as we just wanted train time and well-timed layovers to do a little sight-seeing, so I can't complain about that mega-points trip.
That's not an AGR, that's an operations problem for not publishing the logical route.

If you really want to keep such trips to a one-zone, you can always pay to get to NOL and start your award there. Sleepers on that end of the Crescent are notoriously cheap due to low demand.
Jim suggested AGR should give an awards break to us southerners in his post so that's why I referred him to AGR HR. :)

I agree on the one-zone suggestion for those who want that routing. I've done the stretch between ATL-NOL many times and didn't want to go via NOL on our recent trip. Our layovers worked out perfectly on the two-zone routing and my friend had never visited DC. I'm just surprised that the NOL routing isn't also offered with the understanding the overnight is at the passenger's expense.

Traveler, sometimes bedrooms on that section are a little cheaper than roomettes if you are ever in the market for a BR.
 
I'd like to see one zone defined as it is now with the addition that travel solely on a single train be considered one zone. So Cardinal end to end would be one zone and so would SL and EB. Boston to Indianapolis via NE Regional to NYP then Cardinal would be two zones. Even though NYC to Indy would be one zone (single train). For the Boston trip, user could pay for BOS to NYP or from Cincinnati to Indy.
So basically any city on the NEC (excepting BOS, NYP and was) pay a penalty? That isn't really fair that I would have a penalty in PVD because no LD trains service my town. So BOS-chi on LSL is one zone but PVD -chi is two? That's even crazier than it stands now.
You do have a problem reading:
I'd like to see one zone defined as it is now with the addition that...

Addition that... Understand? The example I gave is one that crosses zone boundaries. That is why I used it. It would give an additional benefit to those using points for ONLY one train. It would not take away any benefits. It has nothing to do with the NEC as it would be the same as transferring from any other train (say the Crescent or Silvers). Sheesh!
I understood what you posted, I just don't agree that only those without a connection should get a one zone ride. Your assertion that any connecting train would require two zones to CHI (as it stands now) doesn't help anyone on the NEC that doesn't have a LD train stop. So all hose stations in RI and CT are still paying for two zones to chi meanwhile NYP BOS and was get one zone rewards (plus I suppose PHL and other cities served by the cardinal). I don't think that is a good solution at all and penalizes people in non hub stations from the better deal.

So under your plan - a one train ride - would SeA to CHi on the EB be one zone? Again that doesn't seem very fair, if your goal is to help some of the disparities in awards found with the current zone map.

I don't have a problem reading, and I don't appreciate your insinuation that I have trouble comprehending your posts because I disagree with you. Please cease with your personal attacks.
 
You're missing his point - mostly because rather than explain it coherently, he's choosing to be insulting.

If it's a one zone ride today, it would still be a one zone, even if you had to change trains.

Additionally, any train trip that didn't involve transfers would be considered a one zone, regardless of geography.
 
You're missing his point - mostly because rather than explain it coherently, he's choosing to be insulting.

If it's a one zone ride today, it would still be a one zone, even if you had to change trains.

Additionally, any train trip that didn't involve transfers would be considered a one zone, regardless of geography.
I think amamba's point is this:

The NEC to Chicago is currently a two zone reward no matter where you are on the NEC. The rule me_little_me wants to add would make it a one-zone reward for those who happen to live/board at one of the stations one of the LD trains serves on the NEC (assuming they take the LD train from that station instead of a regional connecting to a different LD train.) Those who don't have a stop on a LD route (but are on the NEC) get the short end of the stick, as they still would have to pay for a two-zone reward.
 
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