agr tightens up on allowed routings for redemptions

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yarrow

yarrow

Engineer
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Messages
2,235
Location
far ne washington state, 1/2 mile from canada
this has been discussed before but i would be interested in the experience and views of others. there has been a trend in agr, i guess since the slidell loophole was closed, to be more consistent with and to reduce allowed routings. in the past 5 years we have done 2 zone redemptions of spk-chi-was-atl, spk-chi-nol-atl, atl-nol-lax-pdx-spk. according the the "rules" these were not allowed but we had no trouble booking them with agr. no longer. i still think agr is a great program but i would be interested in the experience of others with tighter and more consistently enforced redemption policies
 
yarrow said:
this has been discussed before but i would be interested in the experience and views of others. there has been a trend in agr, i guess since the slidell loophole was closed, to be more consistent with and to reduce allowed routings. in the past 5 years we have done 2 zone redemptions of spk-chi-was-atl, spk-chi-nol-atl, atl-nol-lax-pdx-spk. according the the "rules" these were not allowed but we had no trouble booking them with agr. no longer. i still think agr is a great program but i would be interested in the experience of others with tighter and more consistently enforced redemption policies
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You have always been vastly more fortunate than I in booking these forbidden routings. Two years ago I got a HOS-LAX-PDX-MSP one-zone award, and I'm sitting on a November KCY-LAX-PDX-MOT two-zone award. That one earned a special call from AGR. I was sternly told that I shouldn't have been able to book the trip, and wouldn't be able to change it. We'll see what things look like in November with the Coast Starlight-Empire Builder connection. That was a first for me.

I'd guess that these routes are harder to book, but honestly, I haven't been trying much. Mostly I've been riding the Empire Builder to Minot visit my aged, ailing mother. I wish it were otherwise (heck, so does she!), but my head really hasn't been in the game.
 
RyanS said:
Yes, the rules were published sometime last year, and have been much more stringently enforced since then.
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That's because our good friend Anthony made sure they were published on their website so every member understood the policy and their would be no issues. It's worked well, but some agents could use some re-training on the rules of redemption. I expressed that in the recent e-mailed survey.
 
Yup, I just went through this. I wanted to do CHI - NOL - WAS - CHI, but they were going to charge me two two-zone awards (40k points) plus the CHI - NOL one-zone (15k points) even with the overnight in NOL.

The solution was to redeem 15k points from CHI - NOL, spend the night in NOL, pay for coach from NOL to SDL ($13), and then pay 20k points for a two-zone roomette from SDL - WAS - CHI. I was able to board my roomette in NOL, so it was no big deal, and I got points for the NOL - SDL portion. :)
 
Acela150 said:
That's because our good friend Anthony made sure they were published on their website so every member understood the policy and their would be no issues. It's worked well, but some agents could use some re-training on the rules of redemption. I expressed that in the recent e-mailed survey.
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So, there aren't issues, except when there are.
 
Ispolkom said:
Acela150 said:
That's because our good friend Anthony made sure they were published on their website so every member understood the policy and their would be no issues. It's worked well, but some agents could use some re-training on the rules of redemption. I expressed that in the recent e-mailed survey.
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So, there aren't issues, except when there are.
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Except when there are issues the Agents are usually wrong.
 
I was able to book a WTH(98)-NYP(49)-CHI(3)-LAX(14)-SFC and return SFC/OKJ(11)-LAX(422)-CHI(30)-WTH(91)

with one agent, then I had an issue and called back getting another agent who told me that was an in-proper booking.

She put me on hold for about 5 minutes, then told me they would accept the booking, but I could not make any changes

to the reservation. We wanted to see Raton Pass again, then go to San Francisco to visit our daughter. I was quite

surprised, but I do not plan to make any changes.
 
My uncle and I have an AGR trip coming up Sunday that involves one award from Champaign to Albuquerque on one award and Albuquerque to East Glacier on another. When we had to make a slight change to our reservation we were told that we shouldn't have been able to book that trip without an overnight in Albuquerque even though the forced stopover rule was proven to be false. When we pointed that out, the agent said she didn't care what the rules said. :angry2: Out of the goodness of her heart :rolleyes: she said she would honor our request but be aware it probably wouldn't happen again.
 
My home station is Bloomington, IL. The scheduling from BNL does not permit many routes that can be taken from Chicago and does not permit connection at Galesburg with the SWC.

I feel that we (BNL) had been overlooked when the scheduling was created.

For example, I can not take the SWC or the EB to EMY from BNL via either GBB or CHI because it's not on the schedule. The only way I can take these is if I pay the fare from BNL to CHI.

I feel they should take another look at this and correct it as there really is no sense of fairness in this.
 
I just booked a two zone from Toledo to Los Angeles using The Capitol Limited, The Empire Builder and the Coast Starlight, with an overnight(on my dime)in Portland so I wouldn't have to worry about a late running EB. I knew I could do this by reading the rules and regulations, but I also knew I would encounter resistance from an AGR agent. she told me that wasn't a published route. I told her I just saw it on the list of routes that were acceptable. On hold for ten minutes. Next,when I told her I wanted to spend the night in Portland, I was put on hold another ten minutes. Finally, the booking was approved,.

I spent quite some time accumulating those points and I wanted maximum train time. I booked this trip for late June, as soon as the dates were available. I plan returning on The Texas Eagle and The Lake Shore Limited, with the hope the LSL is still running late next summer so we don't arrive in Toledo on time at 3 in the morning.

You would think the agents would be familiar with what is allowable on a redemption,without having to be put on hold. However, the first part of the trip is booked,and we also booked motels and car rentals for the week we will be in California. Might as well get it done now,before prices rise. Interesting,we booked a cabin by Yosemite National Park and even booking for late June the website said only one available at this price for the date,so I booked it. Out of curiosity, I checked an hour later, and sure enough the lowest price was twice what I booked it for.

Guess it pays to book as far in advance as possible.
 
The new or maybe not new rules are fine with me, but Amtrak needs to program all routes that are reasonable and conform to AGR rules into their system. AGR won't let you book a trip unless it comes up on Amtrak's website without using multi-city. Some routes that would seem to be legit aren't. IIRC, some have also had issues with not being able to connect at their preferred station.

Also, when booking sleepers, there is sort of a catch-22 if the connection time isn't a very generous one. You can't add an overnight for insurance without ending the award and having to redeem another one. But if you miss your connection, there's a chance you won't get your sleeper on the next train(s) because they are often sold out. You also don't get a partial refund of points in that case, only a voucher toward paid travel.

However, I just took my first AGR trip, involving four trains with scheduled layovers of 6-9 hours, and it went without a hitch. :) Easy, easy way to see some of the country and visit a few cities. I took a friend with me and she's still talking about how much fun it was. The required points weren't easy for me to accumulate, but I'm a big fan of the program.
 
crescent2 said:
The new or maybe not new rules are fine with me, but Amtrak needs to program all routes that are reasonable and conform to AGR rules into their system. AGR won't let you book a trip unless it comes up on Amtrak's website without using multi-city. Some routes that would seem to be legit aren't. IIRC, some have also had issues with not being able to connect at their preferred station.
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I'd also suggest that they also remove routings that aren't legal, like Birmingham-Washington-Chicago-Los Angeles, for instance. I can't imagine that is such a popular paid itinerary that its users couldn't use multi-city.

I doubt that this would happen, because I get the impression that new routings have to be approved by someone (Operations?), and the problems of the few of us AGR members who book long-distance, convoluted sleeper travel aren't a high priority.
 
so, is it just a maturing of the agr program that they are tightening up on what is allowed or is it a more sinister reduction as in the attempt to remove coffee and juice from sleepers after 10am(or whatever) because "that is what the rules have always said"?
 
Ispolkom said:
crescent2 said:
The new or maybe not new rules are fine with me, but Amtrak needs to program all routes that are reasonable and conform to AGR rules into their system. AGR won't let you book a trip unless it comes up on Amtrak's website without using multi-city. Some routes that would seem to be legit aren't. IIRC, some have also had issues with not being able to connect at their preferred station.
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I'd also suggest that they also remove routings that aren't legal, like Birmingham-Washington-Chicago-Los Angeles, for instance. I can't imagine that is such a popular paid itinerary that its users couldn't use multi-city.

I doubt that this would happen, because I get the impression that new routings have to be approved by someone (Operations?), and the problems of the few of us AGR members who book long-distance, convoluted sleeper travel aren't a high priority.
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Wow, I was not aware that route was a published choice. Get it while it's there, if you have the points!
 
They need to allow members to book sleeping car rewards online. Cut out the clueless customer service agent, book from a list of published routes, and be on your merry way.
 
William W. said:
They need to allow members to book sleeping car rewards online. Cut out the clueless customer service agent, book from a list of published routes, and be on your merry way.
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It took AGR two years to restore a useable zone map to their Web site. At that rate, what you want will take decades.
 
William W. said:
They need to allow members to book sleeping car rewards online. Cut out the clueless customer service agent, book from a list of published routes, and be on your merry way.
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Uh -- smiley - smiley --

Uh - that would require a system-wide policy embedded in the (ancient, but serviceable) software, for the benefit of the few AGR members. No way on earth -- the airlines specifically deny responsibility for the value of (miles - points)--

WW - are you impaired, or what?

Yeah, the no-cost "miles, or points" sometimes have value. Or not.

If you want the frequent (fliers, railers) points to be enhanced -- sorry -- might happen.

But beggars can't be --
 
NW cannonball said:
William W. said:
They need to allow members to book sleeping car rewards online. Cut out the clueless customer service agent, book from a list of published routes, and be on your merry way.
Click to expand...
Uh -- smiley - smiley --Uh - that would require a system-wide policy embedded in the (ancient, but serviceable) software, for the benefit of the few AGR members. No way on earth -- the airlines specifically deny responsibility for the value of (miles - points)--

WW - are you impaired, or what?

Yeah, the no-cost "miles, or points" sometimes have value. Or not.

If you want the frequent (fliers, railers) points to be enhanced -- sorry -- might happen.

But beggars can't be --
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I don't see what's so crazy about adding that functionality. Is a sleeper really that different from a seat, booking system-wise? I understand why you'd have to call for a complex itinerary, but a published route should be bookable online.

Impaired? I'm not sure what I've done to deserve an insult.
 
I was just playing around on the web site & noticed a route option for a PDX-NOL reservation, PDX-SAC-CHI-CVS-NOL. does this mean I can get that route for a 2 zone reward? This is getting confusing!
 
Unfortunately no! You'd have to go PDX-SAC-CHI-NOL or PDX-CHI- NOL to get a 2 Zone Award! (CVS is in the East as is ATL so that would be a 3 Zone Award or even 2+2 since NOL is in the Central!!!!!)
 
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Time was AGR Redemptions were based simply on the Zone you started in versus the Zone you finished in; hence the infamous Columbus Loophole where you go from Kansas City to Los Angeles to Portland OR to Columbus WI (1 stop north of Milwaukee) was a 1 Zone steal.

Now they base these things on how many Zones you travel through and if you cross back into a Zone, it counts again.
 
Rail Freak said:
If you are an AGR traveler wanting to go out West & you live between ATL & NOL, you're between a rock & a hard place!
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Unless we see back the full glory of the Sunset Limited once again I am afraid those who stuck between the east coast and NOL will be screwed.
 

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