VIA announces new cars, amenity upgrades
- Thread starter CHamilton
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They obviously didn't get the amenity "memo" that Amtrak issued....
jis
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For the price they plan to charge even Amtrak would consider withdrawing the amenity memo I should think 
Devil's Advocate
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Another article has some photos...
Link: http://www.jaunted.com/story/2014/6/1/20955/56979/travel/VIA+Rail+Canada+Unveils+New+'Prestige+Class'+Train+Cabins
Although the Canadian is a very nice train the every few days schedule in winter is rather unfortunate and the summer rates were already sky high. I can only imagine what these tickets will be going for in 2015 when they eventually start rolling out the new hardware. One thing that should be included in the ticket price is a memo to Canada's clueless customs officers explaining that these train passengers are not any sort of threat and are in fact dumping thousands of dollars into their trips.
Link: http://www.jaunted.com/story/2014/6/1/20955/56979/travel/VIA+Rail+Canada+Unveils+New+'Prestige+Class'+Train+Cabins
Although the Canadian is a very nice train the every few days schedule in winter is rather unfortunate and the summer rates were already sky high. I can only imagine what these tickets will be going for in 2015 when they eventually start rolling out the new hardware. One thing that should be included in the ticket price is a memo to Canada's clueless customs officers explaining that these train passengers are not any sort of threat and are in fact dumping thousands of dollars into their trips.
NS VIA Fan
Conductor
Copy US CBP on the same memo!
jerichowhiskey
Service Attendant
Amtrak likes to note maintenance (parts availability?) issues with their heritage fleet. What is different with how VIA is handling their fleet?
There are two key differences between Amtrak's position and VIA's position:
(1) Amtrak has about 80 Heritage cars, give or take a few. I believe the breakdown is around 20 diners, 60 baggage cars, and one dome. VIA, on the other hand, has nearly 200 cars on the roster (188 "regular" cars, 28 miscellaneous cars, and a few RDCs). At some point, economies of scale kick in. They do with VIA, they don't with Amtrak. I would posit that were Amtrak still running a few hundred Heritage cars, they would have sufficient equipment/parts orders to keep the per-unit cost under control.
(2) More importantly, Amtrak has had major periods of mistreating its equipment. VIA has not had the same degree of this mistreatment. Equipment that is well-cared-for will last a long, long time. Equipment that is mishandled and not kept up will die prematurely. This applies to cars (as my parents taught me), to locomotives (as the Katy apparently learned the hard way back in the 50s), and to passenger cars alike.
Basically, VIA did what they needed to in order to keep the old stuff rolling. Amtrak did not. Amtrak would have replaced the old diners about 20 years ago but for a lack of follow-through funding on the Viewliner I order (remember, there was an option for something like 600 cars on that initial order of 50). Basically, Amtrak made a decision to replace their old equipment but got cut off halfway through doing so, and therefore got caught with an undersized fleet that has been problematic to keep up.
(1) Amtrak has about 80 Heritage cars, give or take a few. I believe the breakdown is around 20 diners, 60 baggage cars, and one dome. VIA, on the other hand, has nearly 200 cars on the roster (188 "regular" cars, 28 miscellaneous cars, and a few RDCs). At some point, economies of scale kick in. They do with VIA, they don't with Amtrak. I would posit that were Amtrak still running a few hundred Heritage cars, they would have sufficient equipment/parts orders to keep the per-unit cost under control.
(2) More importantly, Amtrak has had major periods of mistreating its equipment. VIA has not had the same degree of this mistreatment. Equipment that is well-cared-for will last a long, long time. Equipment that is mishandled and not kept up will die prematurely. This applies to cars (as my parents taught me), to locomotives (as the Katy apparently learned the hard way back in the 50s), and to passenger cars alike.
Basically, VIA did what they needed to in order to keep the old stuff rolling. Amtrak did not. Amtrak would have replaced the old diners about 20 years ago but for a lack of follow-through funding on the Viewliner I order (remember, there was an option for something like 600 cars on that initial order of 50). Basically, Amtrak made a decision to replace their old equipment but got cut off halfway through doing so, and therefore got caught with an undersized fleet that has been problematic to keep up.
jis
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Relatively low overall fleet utilization must help a lot in that arena.
Also VIA started with a predominantly uniform Heritage fleet and made it even more so by getting rid of most of the ex-CN stuff and retaining the ex-CP stuff. Amtrak got an incredible mish mash of stuff over half of which suffered from very significant deferred maintenance or no maintenance at all for several years prior to 1971. Even what they finally picked and kept in the HEP Heritage fleet was a very mixed bag of stuff. It must have been an inventory nightmare to keep all that going.
Also VIA started with a predominantly uniform Heritage fleet and made it even more so by getting rid of most of the ex-CN stuff and retaining the ex-CP stuff. Amtrak got an incredible mish mash of stuff over half of which suffered from very significant deferred maintenance or no maintenance at all for several years prior to 1971. Even what they finally picked and kept in the HEP Heritage fleet was a very mixed bag of stuff. It must have been an inventory nightmare to keep all that going.
My understanding has always been that Amtrak was able to get down to a decently coherent fleet once they brought the Amfleets in and were able to retire at least some of the Heritage stuff. Remember, Amtrak got rid of something like 2/3 of the equipment that was available to it on A-Day...much of it Penn Central "Roach Coaches" and the like, of course. But once you got to the early 80s, you were mostly down to equipment that was from Southern, Seaboard, ATSF, and Burlington Northern which was in decent-to-good shape (as well as some pool equipment from the Penn Central which had survived in decent shape...after all, the Broadway Limited had still been all-Pullman into the late 60s, so there was only so much time for the equipment to go to pot at the end). The Superliners and Amfleets had taken up most of the slack from the other mish-mash of cars...and most of the survivors were Budd equipment.
Amtrak ditched a batch of the Heritage stuff in the 90s because of the toilet issues (the dump toilets were expensive to replace and couldn't clear NYP), but they also pretty much killed what was left on their own with deferred maintenance in the late 90s.
But you're definitely right about low utilization...even in peak season, doesn't the Canadian lay over for a day or so at each end?
Amtrak ditched a batch of the Heritage stuff in the 90s because of the toilet issues (the dump toilets were expensive to replace and couldn't clear NYP), but they also pretty much killed what was left on their own with deferred maintenance in the late 90s.
But you're definitely right about low utilization...even in peak season, doesn't the Canadian lay over for a day or so at each end?
Green Maned Lion
Engineer
Amtrak has always run the wheels off their equipment. VIA has 200 some pieces, much of it restricted to one bi/tri weekly showcase. Amtrak has 80 some pieces, all but one of them in motion for probably 5 full days out of seven.
VIA has no capacity constraints. They don't run any trains!
VIA has no capacity constraints. They don't run any trains!
Saw this on google images while looking for pictures of Prestige class - now this raises my eyebrows. It kind of feels like cheapening to me, totally redoing the Park car like this and it disrupts the 'classic' feel of the Canadian, and I really wish they'd have kept the bullet lounge like it was, or at least given it something still fitting with the rest of the train.
Actually met the VIA Rail media relations person traveling there for this event while traveling on the Canadian, and happened to ask them whether it'd be Prestige-only - they haven't decided yet apparently whether Sleeper Plus will still be able to access the Park Car - it may be Prestige only.
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TVRM610
Conductor
ewwww. I'm glad I rode the Canadian when I did. actually when does this roll out? Perhaps I need to make another trip ASAP...
I didn't realize they were messing with the Park cars like this.
Include me in the "if it isn't broken don't fix it club!" when it comes to the Park Cars and Budd Equipment!
Modern isn't always an improvement!
Hopefully all Sleeper pax on the Canadian will still be able to utilize the Park Car!!!
Modern isn't always an improvement!
Hopefully all Sleeper pax on the Canadian will still be able to utilize the Park Car!!!
It doesn't roll out officially til' 2015 apparently, but the converted Park Car is already running intermittently from what articles say. I'm guessing some Cabin for 3 purchasers will be getting a surprise upgrade.
I'm going to be honest, if they had done the lighting different, made the windows sturdier looking and framed with plain metal, used different seating, and using a darker, less fine grained wood like cherry, and not plastered the whole wall with wood, this might have actually looked good.
Personally glad Amtrak hasn't pulled any stunts like this - they still seem to attempt to be 'America's Railroad' instead of a luxury tourist service - sometimes even to the detriment of luxuries, like the lessening of Sleeper benefits and the desire of some within Amtrak to ditch the PPC, which is up there in luxury with VIA's Park cars in my opinion.
I'm going to be honest, if they had done the lighting different, made the windows sturdier looking and framed with plain metal, used different seating, and using a darker, less fine grained wood like cherry, and not plastered the whole wall with wood, this might have actually looked good.
Personally glad Amtrak hasn't pulled any stunts like this - they still seem to attempt to be 'America's Railroad' instead of a luxury tourist service - sometimes even to the detriment of luxuries, like the lessening of Sleeper benefits and the desire of some within Amtrak to ditch the PPC, which is up there in luxury with VIA's Park cars in my opinion.
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Oh, God, that is ugly.
*sighs*
I'll probably do one more run on the Canadian this winter...and then there is a very good chance I do not touch that train ever again at this rate except to try and hit up the Hudson Bay train (albeit for more reasons than just bad decor).
*sighs*
I'll probably do one more run on the Canadian this winter...and then there is a very good chance I do not touch that train ever again at this rate except to try and hit up the Hudson Bay train (albeit for more reasons than just bad decor).
MikefromCrete
Engineer
I think that interior looks pretty nice. Certainly looks more comfortable than the 1950's stylings in the other Park cars which always struck me as stark and plain.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
Looks like a President Obama's Prevost motorhome, probably.
Green Maned Lion
Engineer
You lost me there, Swad.
rrdude
Engineer
After riding Alaska RR's train from Anchorage to Seward earlier this month, it convinced me further that Amtrak is "missing the boat" when it comes to LD service, I know, I know, I know, that Amtrak must "listen" to Congress, but in my dream, Congress would let Amtrak run without micro-managing. Don't like China plates? Then replace the CEO, otherwise, let the CEO, and his soldiers do what they think is best.
I know Amtrak is supposed to provide "basic transportation to all", but when a company tries to please everybody, they end up pleasing no one. (low fare riders complain about high rates, first class pax complain about lack of amenities, everyone complains about food quality)
I'd like to see a division or department within Amtrak that CATERS to the luxury traveler, on many different levels, but alas, that won't happen. I'm just gonna have to save my bucks, and travel VIA, and or others. Sorry for the rant.........
I know Amtrak is supposed to provide "basic transportation to all", but when a company tries to please everybody, they end up pleasing no one. (low fare riders complain about high rates, first class pax complain about lack of amenities, everyone complains about food quality)
I'd like to see a division or department within Amtrak that CATERS to the luxury traveler, on many different levels, but alas, that won't happen. I'm just gonna have to save my bucks, and travel VIA, and or others. Sorry for the rant.........
"Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beholder"......these posts a good example of that expression.
IMHO, yes, I do like to preserve old equipment, be it trains or automobiles in "original" condition, mainly for nostagia.
But in this case, I have to agree with MikefromCrete, that the new interior does look rather sumptuous and inviting, while at the same time preserving the general pleasure of sitting in a round-end observation car.
jis
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I just think it is generally silly to install unmovable seats facing inwards next to windows. But that is just me probably. I am told by some experts from railroads that passengers really don't care to look outside while traveling as much as I do.
Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
TVRM610
Conductor
Well the seats in these cars always faced away from the windows... true they were technically movable, but in practice they always faced toward the center of the cars.I just think it is generally silly to install unmovable seats facing inwards next to windows. But that is just me probably. I am told by some experts from railroads that passengers really don't care to look outside while traveling as much as I do.
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The problem I have is the design does not take into account the curved end of the train.... why be on the back of the train if you don't have a clear view out the back? That was the whole idea I thought.
TVRM610
Conductor
I agree the Park Cars as is are very plain and sterile. In my opinion more sterile than the newly refurbished Amtrak lounges. But they could be upgraded without disturbing the historical nature of the car.... ala Pullman as pictured below. THAT is what an observation lounge should look like.
siberianmo
Service Attendant
Not trying to introduce redundancy in commentary - but when it comes to VIA Rail, I too have many, many fond experiences going back to the Atlantic from Montreal to Halifax (where relatives are). My most FAY-VOR-IYTE trips were with my bride aboard the Ocean in the Park Car - bedroom of course when the entire consist was of the corrugated stainless steel beauties. What a treat and back in those times (1990s) the fare was right and the service far better than anything experienced down this way (USA). I'm guessing we (I) logged at least 3 dozen round trips between those cities. Ahhhhh, memories.
Those upgraded Budd cars (yeah - Budd cars inanely called HEP by who-knows-what-the-mentality)? pretty much convinced me that my cross-Canada (actually Toronto to Vancouver) days are done. Will not spend that kind of money nor will I (or we) put up with the reduced scheduling and fare gouging going on with VIA these days. Yeah, I know - don't let the door hit me in my stern section as I remain below the 49th parallel for my rail "fix."
I cannot figure out Ottawa anymore than WashDC when it comes to subsidizing VIA/Amtrak . . . spend a bundle for renovations then cut scheduling along with pricing out so many short of being affluent. Oh yeah, makes sense . . . not.
Finally for VIA Rail: bring back the Chaleur (Montreal to Gaspe) and restore the names to all long-distance trains!!
Those upgraded Budd cars (yeah - Budd cars inanely called HEP by who-knows-what-the-mentality)? pretty much convinced me that my cross-Canada (actually Toronto to Vancouver) days are done. Will not spend that kind of money nor will I (or we) put up with the reduced scheduling and fare gouging going on with VIA these days. Yeah, I know - don't let the door hit me in my stern section as I remain below the 49th parallel for my rail "fix."
I cannot figure out Ottawa anymore than WashDC when it comes to subsidizing VIA/Amtrak . . . spend a bundle for renovations then cut scheduling along with pricing out so many short of being affluent. Oh yeah, makes sense . . . not.
Finally for VIA Rail: bring back the Chaleur (Montreal to Gaspe) and restore the names to all long-distance trains!!
