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New Greyhound Station in Seattle


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#61 railiner

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 02:20 AM

Thanks for keeping us updated, Ricky, with all those photo's....

I am sorry, but I can't feel very enthusiastic seeing that new terminal...utilitarian, is an understatement....it sure doesn't do justice to representing the beautiful and vibrant city it is serving.   I am comparing it in my mind with some of the 'palace's Greyhound built in the earlier era.    This place looks like is is almost 'buried' by the garage and freeway structure.... more like a suburban 'park and ride' station, not a downtown terminal.  But there's progress.......


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#62 CHamilton

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 07:41 AM

This picture shows how close the new station is to the Link Light Rail Stadium station.

 

This station is in a good location in terms of access to public transportation and has really easy access to I-5 & I-90.

The problem with the light rail's Stadium station, and (I assume) the new bus terminal, is that it is very difficult to walk from there to anywhere else. Maybe the powers that be don't want bus patrons wandering around the neighborhood, but the Sodo neighborhood is not exactly fancy. It's full of industrial and warehouse facilities, with lots of fast food joints and such that would be appropriate for those laying over between buses. 

You would think the Stadium light rail station at South Royal Brougham Way between 4th and 6th Aves.—presumably designed with light rail commuters in mind—would be easily accessible by foot to and from the stadium from many directions.

My dangerous, circuitous, and inhospitable walk between Safeco Field and the light rail station last night taught me otherwise. There is, evidently, a single defined path on game day. But make one false move—like missing the unmarked doubleback loop off Royal Brougham—and suddenly you're in a concrete no-man's land that offers no out for pedestrians.

This major flaw makes it clear the station area planning was done without concern for people who are walking.

 

 


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#63 rickycourtney

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 04:46 PM

I agree Charlie. The walk from Stadium Station and the new Greyhound station to the stadiums is long and a bit circuitous. It involves walking up a looped ramp that takes you up and over the railroad tracks. You're looking at a half mile walk to Safeco Field (shorter to the outfield gate) and the restaurants on 1st Ave and a 3/4 mile walk to CenturyLink Field. That's why most fans going to CenturyLink get off at International District/Chinatown station.

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I think Stadium station is mostly used by people going to Mariners games and Metro Transit employees headed to the 3 bus bases in the area. But this Greyhound station will add a bit of traffic.

Stopped by both the old and new stations again today (needed to kill some time on my day off). Interesting to note that while the old station is covered in "we've moved" signs, and most of the Greyhound signs are coming down, it's still open in a limited capacity. They have one old unrefurbished G4500 (#7253) running as a shuttle between the old and new stations. Probably because Greyhound being Greyhound hasn't bothered to update their website.

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Also stopped by the station. One refurbished G4500 had just finished it's run and was deadheading back to the depot in West Seattle as a H3-45 boarded passengers.
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#64 Swadian Hardcore

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 06:23 PM

H3-45 probably heading to Vancouver. I'm guessing Greyhound's IT guys are struggling with timetable changes for Greyhound massive route expansion and reshuffling for June 2014.

 

It's no surprise Greyhound is still neglecting Seattle and built this little station. Greyohund has been neglecting Seattle since 2004 due to poor profits, poor ridership, and poor stereotypes. Seattle has quite a lot of affluent people, who view down on Greyhound and refuse to ride it "at any cost", so Greyhound might as well neglect a city that hates Greyhound. After all, the general public doesn't know what the heck a G4500 is compared to a 102DL3.

 

Greyhound Vancouver has a much better reputation for some reason, so Greyhound is piling their best buses into Vancouver Garage.


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#65 rickycourtney

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 12:00 AM

H3-45 probably heading to Vancouver. I'm guessing Greyhound's IT guys are struggling with timetable changes for Greyhound massive route expansion and reshuffling for June 2014.


I HIGHLY doubt it takes that long to update the address of a station that has already moved.

It's no surprise Greyhound is still neglecting Seattle and built this little station. Greyohund has been neglecting Seattle since 2004 due to poor profits, poor ridership, and poor stereotypes. Seattle has quite a lot of affluent people, who view down on Greyhound and refuse to ride it "at any cost", so Greyhound might as well neglect a city that hates Greyhound. After all, the general public doesn't know what the heck a G4500 is compared to a 102DL3.


Wow. That's a bit harsh against the people of Seattle and overly apologetic of Greyhound's shortcomings.

First off Greyhound abandoned routes up here in the Northwest (including Seattle to Chicago)... that doesn't do much to endear yourself to people. Granted, those were the old, bad days of a company that's still trying to improve but they still don't run a Seattle to Chicago route, instead contracting it out to Jefferson Lines.

Yes, Seattle is an affluent city but it also has a lot of people who are open minded about transportation. For proof of that, I point to the success of Greyhound's BoltBus routes here in the PNW. If Greyhound wanted that success for its own buses it would have taken a Greyhound Express route, with lots of advertising and a new station. Instead they took the easy route and put some red paint on buses.

Greyhound Vancouver has a much better reputation for some reason, so Greyhound is piling their best buses into Vancouver Garage.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Greyhound Canada determines what fleet runs out of Vancouver... so wouldn't they be responsible for piling THEIR best buses into Vancouver.

#66 Swadian Hardcore

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 12:22 AM

Don't tell me Seattle is open-minded about transportation. BoltBus does not have the bad brand history that Greyhound has. Greyhound thought the G4500 would be great for Seattle-Chicago, so they put then on it, but they burned up, and passengers fled, so Greyhound cut the route. But later when Greyhound restarted it with DL3's, ridership was still very low, so Greyhound cut it again. Now Greyhound still has a bad relationship with any affluent people because of their bad brand history.

 

Even worse are people that think Greyhound is bad because they have historically carried many blacks, while Amtrak has historically carried more whites. Don't you try to say racism isn't present in the US.

 

And Greyhound Canada is headed by David Leach, the same President that heads Greyhound US. In fact, David Leach is a Canadian. So Leach does have a BIG say in which buses go where, and it's no surprise he sent better buses to his home country.


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#67 rickycourtney

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 01:33 AM

You just made my point for me... Greyhound decided it was easier to create a new brand than repair its "bad brand history."

Edited by rickycourtney, 23 May 2014 - 01:41 AM.


#68 rrdude

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:12 AM

Okay, I have scanned this entire thread, and am still curious as to why Greyhound, or all intercity bus operations, didn't relocate to the refurbished Seattle King St., Station. I am ignorant of the Seattle King St., Station. So would like from one of those who is knowledgeable, a quick explanation of why intercity buses were not made part of the Refurbished King St., Station. Thank you.

#69 rickycourtney

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 09:33 AM

As I understand it… The City of Seattle approached Greyhound and asked if they wanted to move into King Street station. Greyhound scoffed at the proposal.

I assume that the city would have wanted Greyhound to pay for part of the restoration and building five or six bus bays at the station (buses just stop in a loop outside right now) and Greyhound didn't want to spend any money.

What Greyhound didn't know at the time was that just a few months later their building in downtown Seattle would be sold and they would be forced to move.

Adding bus bays to King Street station while it was already torn up would have been relatively easy... but doing it now that the restoration is finished would be a challenge and possibly more expensive than building this new station.

It's a shame for passengers because King Street station is definitely a much more grand place to wait to catch train or a bus and having both Greyhound and Amtrak together under one roof may have provided enough passenger traffic to get a higher level of amenities (currently both stations only have a couple of vending machines.)

#70 CHamilton

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 11:47 AM

Bolt Bus stops directly across the pedestrian walkway on 5th Avenue. One could argue that Greyhound is trying to get the benefit of KSS without paying for it, but I imagine that they get more passengers from the transit buses on 4th Avenue and Jackson Street. Of course, any Greyhound passenger who wants to use light rail -- and there will be lots more when the extension to the University District opens in 2016 -- can now get off at Stadium station rather than International District/Chinatown. I doubt that they're getting many passengers from Sounder commuter trains.

 

I suspect, however, that both Amtrak and Greyhound are happy with the way things turned out. KSS gets pretty busy with just Amtrak passengers, and it would have required some fairly major surgery to add bus bays--I suspect they would have had to take a chunk of space from the stadium parking lot to do so, which, no doubt, would have cost more than Greyhound was willing to pay. And Amtrak station personnel doesn't have to deal with the bus passengers.


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#71 Swadian Hardcore

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 08:21 PM

Greyhound Seattle routes possibly have the lowest profits in the system. G4500's pretty much made no money before rebuilds. It's no surprise they don't want to spend money on Seattle.


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#72 rickycourtney

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 10:42 PM

Greyhound Seattle routes possibly have the lowest profits in the system. G4500's pretty much made no money before rebuilds. It's no surprise they don't want to spend money on Seattle.


Source?

#73 Swadian Hardcore

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 11:47 PM

 

Greyhound Seattle routes possibly have the lowest profits in the system. G4500's pretty much made no money before rebuilds. It's no surprise they don't want to spend money on Seattle.


Source?

 

 

GTE from back when I was a lurker. And it's easy to understand: Greyhound stacked their worst buses in Seattle, laid off drivers, and cut schedules. Do you think a company would do their worst to a place that does not make the worst profits?


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#74 Green Maned Lion

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 06:36 AM

I think there are a lot of companies that run themselves badly and make bad decisions.
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#75 rickycourtney

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 12:33 PM

Greyhound Seattle routes possibly have the lowest profits in the system. G4500's pretty much made no money before rebuilds. It's no surprise they don't want to spend money on Seattle.


Source?

 
GTE from back when I was a lurker. And it's easy to understand: Greyhound stacked their worst buses in Seattle, laid off drivers, and cut schedules. Do you think a company would do their worst to a place that does not make the worst profits?


Something you saw long ago from an unofficial source doesn't seem very reliable to me.

As GML said, if ridership is bad, it's bad due to decisions on the part of Greyhound.

That being said the company is finally making some good decisions in this part of the country. This new station (as unimpressive as it is) is an improvement over the old, rundown station, that's good. Greyhound has started the slow process of refurbishing the old buses, that's good too. Also (as much as you may not like it) the company HAS spent a lot of money and dedicated a lot of resources in the PNW launching BoltBus (on par with the resources given to the Greyhound Express route between Dallas & Houston). That decision appears to have paid dividends... the BoltBus route is popular, well liked and appears to have taken a bite out of ridership on the Cascades.

I prefer taking trains... but all things considered I would take BoltBus again as long as the schedules are better and the price is right. Hell, I'd take "the new Greyhound" if the company could guarantee that I would be riding on a refurbished bus but it sounds like it will still be a while until that happens.

#76 Swadian Hardcore

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 02:53 PM

When I left Seattle, there were tons of DL3's there. Why did Greyhound pull away the DL3's? I'm think Greyhound just gave up on Seattle and used the G4500's as a link between Portland and Vancouver. Denver-Portland is mainly a DL3 route.

 

Ricky, you just proved my point for me. The fact that Greyhound introduced BoltBus to Seattle is because they failed to earn money there.

 

What happened is basically this: Greyhound had tons of DL3's in Seattle, whichattracted the more affluent people because they have always been comfortable. Then Greyhound thought the G4500 would be better so they introduced a few G4500's to Seattle, which worsened Greyhound's reputation enough that no affluent people wanted to ride Greyhound, and there were not enough poor in Seattle to make a profit.

 

So Greyhound, near bankrupt at the time (2004), decided to just give up Seattle and focus on places with better profits. They pulled away the DL3's and sent more G4500's to Seattle. Then the DL3's went through the first round of upgrades, at the expense of customer service. They beefed up other routes where reputation was not spoiled by G4500's yet. With poor ridership, Greyhound went through huge cuts in Seattle.

 

Then in 2012, Greyhound decided to tackle the thorn in their side, Seattle, with BoltBus. With X3-45's and an orange livery, it quickly gained popularity. Meanwhile, Greyhound was busy upgrading elsewhere in places where the "Greyhound" name could still make money. It was not until October 2013 that Greyhound has stopped neglecting Seattle. But a few weeks from now, starting June 25th, Greyhound will introduce Los Angeles-Vancouver replacing many Seattle-based skeds, meaning Seattle will not longer be the base of the PNW; the new base is Vancouver.


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TAKE IT EASY  TAKE THE GREYHOUND
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#77 rickycourtney

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:08 PM

Sorry to bump an ancient thread...

Parking will be incredibly limited at this new station. In the tiny lot in front of the station there are 4 spots marked for 1 hour parking (I think at least 2 of these spots will be dedicated to Greyhound Package Express). In small parking lot across the street from the station there are 3 spots for taxi's to wait, 6 spots dedicated to employee parking and 6 spots for 30 minute customer parking.

Well that didnt last long. The incredibly limited parking is now even more limited.
The parking lot across the street appears to now be used as a staging lot for construction project.
That said, in the 3 or so years since this station opened, Ive never once seen a taxi waiting in the cab stand and I only rarely saw people parked in that lot to pick up a passenger.




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