Auto Train Cuts

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printman2000

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Did not see this posted anywhere after a search so here is a report from Gene Poon...

Amtrak Southeast Deputy General Manager Tom Kirk and Auto Train route director Kathy Brewer have announced service cuts and changes on Auto Train as detailed:

1. Remove First Class Lounge, all pax to use one Lounge Car.

a. Eliminate LSA, $550,000 labor cost reduction

b. Eliminate complimentary wine and cheese

c. Removing Lounge to add 5th coach for revenue passengers

d. Target date - 3/14

2. Eliminate complimentary wine in diner

a. Sleeper and Coach diner @ $275,000 ($221,500 and $54,000

respectively)

b. Target date - 3/14

c. Also an OIG report item (named in Inspector General report on

food and beverage costs -GP)

3. Add 5th Coach

a. Increase revenue $1,500,000

b. Target date - 3/14

4. Realign consist to have food service cars together and centered in

train

a. Sleeper diner

b. Table car

c. Coach diner

d. Coach Lounge

e. Start staggered seating in Sleeper Diner

5. Move to single menu for all diners

a. Target date - May menu change

b. Incremental savings on F&B (TBA i.e.: linen elimination cost

savings)

c. Eliminate Sleeper Diner Food Specialist (no china) $550,000 labor

savings

d. Initiate at room beverage service (revenue) for sleeper

passengers in lieu wine

e. Initiate alcohol sales promotion in diner

6. Pass rider fee initiative

a. Revenue

i. Average 8050 annual pass riders @ $30 fee = $214,000 (use

as F&B transfer)

ii. Average 4600 vehicles @ $75 fee = $345,000

iii. Total revenue generated = $586,000

b. Also an OIG report item

c. Need to work with Marketing to implement

[SIZE=11pt]Total cost savings initiative $1,564,000 Total P&L impact $3,650,000 (F&B P&L impact $1,777,000)[/SIZE]
 
Thanks for posting this. Good to have a precise list of the changes and what the cost savings are. Now we can have the AT changes discussed in a new thread, because I expect this will be a looong thread in a few days.

Looks to me that the reason for replacing the second lounge car with a coach car is to increase capacity for more revenue sales. As for dropping the china, wine & cheese amenities, it is now clear that the LD trains are moving to a more utilitarian travel approach. With demand often hitting the limits of capacity, in this case for the AT, I can see the reasoning Why add these "frills" if they can sell the seats and rooms anyway? A big experiment for the LD trains is underway.
 
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Looks like Sleeper Class is becoming less and less like First Class, and more like simply Coach with a room.
 
As petty as many think these cuts are, if true. I'm done. We'll fly. I'm a little pissed 'cause I have tix for 4/10 with fam on AT, RT, like we usually do each spring. Be interesting to see how my wife, certainly a "non-train" person, will react, if at all, to the changes. (if they are real, and if they take place)

Messin' with the rich Northeastern Snow Birds. (not me) not good move Amtrak. Hell, maybe most of them just sit in their rooms the whole trip anyway...

I really didn't think the day would come when I wouldn't consider rail-travel my first option, but if these cuts are true, along with the other cuts, what's the point? Save up for Iowa Pacific, or the Canadian (hurry).

Amtrak seems to have forgotten it's not just about getting to your destination, it's about how you get there. They used to market the hell out of this notion.

Now, "Come ride in our tin can, eat blah food off plastic plates and paper table-clothes........See America at See level, and see how far are standards have fallen......"

Putting one SSL on the AT, that's just beyond nuts.....I mean the scenery sux, I'll give ya that, but it's (well it was) nice to be able to get out of your utilitarian room, and walk around a bit, and not have to wait in line for a cocktail, or even a seat. I can't believe what an old-fart I must sound like to a lot of readers, it just ticks me off that I am even writing this.....

But for someone who has seen how good Amtrak could be, (And I never got to truly experience pre-Amtrak, too young) it's just well, disgusting. I really feel that way. All the advantages are there for the taking-and-the-making, and they squander them away. Virgin Rail, "Come save Amtrak". Perhaps the time has come for privatization, with guaranteed subsidy for a certain level of service...

You can bet yer arse I'll be burning all my points this year...............
 
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It would be interesting to see what actual impact this has on ridership and revenues.I have no clue. I have given up long time back all my attempts to understand what makes someone use a particular service. So I guess, we'll see.

Clearly one has not traveled by Virgin Rail (or Virgin Trains as they prefer to call themselves) too much if one seriously expects them to come and save Amtrak, since they do not run any sleeper service whatsoever. They mostly run airline style quite cramped Standard Class and slightly less cramped First Class sitting accommodation. But I guess that is neither here, nor there. The only sleeper services in UK is run by First Great Western (a subsidiary of a bus company) - The Night Riviera, and by First ScotRail ( another subsidiary of the same bus company) - the Caledonian Sleeper service. The only connection between the Caledonian Sleeper service and Virgin Trains is that the Caledonian Sleeper customers can use the Virgin Trains lounge at London Euston.

If you desire Virgin Trains' seat pitch instead of Amtrak's all I can do is shake my head in utter disbelief!
 
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If this is True, Wait till Mica and the other Florida and NE Politicians start hearing from the Regulars that have made the Auto Train such a success! Look for I-85 and 95 to have more Traffic heading to/from Florida and Virginia soon as well as an increase in Business for the Silver Trains and Rental Cars! Even Airlines will probably gain some business if this poorly thought out Bean Counting is implemented! Well, it works for the Airlines seems to be the idea! :eek:hboy:

It looks like Boardman and his Team have given in to the Anti-Rail Crazies in Congress and have started "Nickel and Dimeing" the LD Trains! :( As henry says, they are "cutting off their nose to spite their face!" By any other name this is just another "Standardization" Scheme (Cross Country Cafes/Simplified Dinning etc) and another example of "if it works, change it!"

Along with "three day a week" Trains how did those plans work out??? :rolleyes:
 
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Question about item 4b in the memo: What is a "table car"? [i've never ridden the AT, so I don't know if that's already a "thing" there]

Also, if they are adding a revenue coach, won't they need to add "car carrier" cars? Do they have the equipment/capacity to do this?

I know there are some on here who would jump at the chance to ride the AT without having to have a car along, but that doesn't seem to be part of the proposal.
 
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Sounds like it is time to get rid of Boardman and all the other bloated staff and bring in someone who knows how to run a customer oriented business and provide CUSTOMER SERVICE.
 
Just my 2 cents, these changes do not bother me.

First class lounge, would be nice, but one lounge car seems enough for an 18 hour trip, most of which is overnight.

Complimentary wine at dinner, every other trains you have to pay, why not this one.

Add another coach, great, more revenue.

Single menu, no problems there. All other trains do it that way.

Pass rider fee, not real sure what this one is.
 
Question about item 4b in the memo: What is a "table car"? [i've never ridden the AT, so I don't know if that's already a "thing" there]
Its basically a dining car, but the kitchen isn't in operation. It only serves to provide additional seating (tables) to the adjacent dining car.
 
I think we will find out that this is not a real big deal to most of the passengers. As far as the wine situation, on most trips there were certain passengers who drank more than their share and others who just wanted to get their meal and go to sleep to get ready for their next day of driving. Rail fans will complain and call for Boardman's head, but if revenue increases and any cost reduction is achieved, it will be a success. Most people who say they will never ride again usually don't follow through with their threats.
 
Disclaimer: I've never ridden the Auto Train and am probably not the target market. That said, I'm not seeing a single bad idea in this list. If the train's full already and consist length is capped out, adding a coach car at the expense of a lounge makes sense. And I don't see how eliminating china is even remotely an issue-how are people that concerned with what their plate looks like?-though it's somewhat at odds with Amtrak calling themselves "green" if they're going to plastic instead. I wonder if "pass riders" means Railpass users? Are those even good on the Auto Train?
 
I have never taken AT but if these cuts are true, I'm even less inclined to take AT at all!

I agree that just to have a second lounge to get out of the room is good. I go to the lounge car not just for the scenery, but also for a CHANGE OF scenery - and also to meet and talk with my fellow passengers. But if I had to wait for an available seat, I'd be much less inclined to even try.

Also, if they're cutting a lounge from each train, that means there will be 2 (or is it 3) extra lounge cars available. What's going to happen to them? :huh: I know many routes that could use extra lounge cars!!!
 
My aunt and uncle are typical AT riders. They are snow birds from Long Island and spend winters in the Boynton Beach condo. Although they can afford to ride in a sleeper, the opt for coach. They do not drink, so my guess is that they will not miss anything. They are returning north at the end of March. I will be curious to see if they even notice anything different.
 
Ditto on nothing bad here. Personally I've always thought that wine and cheese tastings were sufficiently low cost as to not be worth caring about, but I'm not going to shed any tears over their removal. The removal of free wine at meals is nothing but good news and I doubt that there's sufficient demand for a special lounge just to sell stuff to sleeper passengers, so that's the replacement of a non-revenue car with a revenue one (all for the good). I am wondering what the pass things are though.
 
Disclaimer: I've never ridden the Auto Train and am probably not the target market. That said, I'm not seeing a single bad idea in this list. If the train's full already and consist length is capped out, adding a coach car at the expense of a lounge makes sense. And I don't see how eliminating china is even remotely an issue-how are people that concerned with what their plate looks like?-though it's somewhat at odds with Amtrak calling themselves "green" if they're going to plastic instead. I wonder if "pass riders" means Railpass users? Are those even good on the Auto Train?
I believe the pass riders they are referring to are people who are freight rail employees/retirees and Amtrak employees.
 
Another thought regarding the lounges: Between the simplified menu, the "staggered seating," and the hopefully upcoming phaseout of cumbersome paper-based inventory management, there's good potential for getting everybody fed taking less time. This means the table car can be used as an overflow lounge when it's not being diner seating-which is conveniently when there'll be the most people wanting a lounge. Perhaps not ideal, but better than nothing.

Edit: Okay, I reread the proposal and the table is going to be between the diners, so maybe this won't work. But sleeper passengers have to walk through the diner to get to the lounge on most LDs currently anyway, so maybe it'll at least be a sleeper lounge during non-food hours?
 
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There is no longer any 'first class' on Amtrak. A lot of the romance of the rails is dwindling away, along with it the reason to ride LD trains.

Sad, very sad.
 
If this is True, Wait till Mica and the other Florida and NE Politicians start hearing from the Regulars that have made the Auto Train such a success! Look for I-85 and 95 to have more Traffic heading to/from Florida and Virginia soon as well as an increase in Business for the Silver Trains and Rental Cars! Even Airlines will probably gain some business if this poorly thought out Bean Counting is implemented! Well, it works for the Airlines seems to be the idea! :eek:hboy:

It looks like Boardman and his Team have given in to the Anti-Rail Crazies in Congress and have started "Nickel and Dimeing" the LD Trains! :( As henry says, they are "cutting off their nose to spite their face!" By any other name this is just another "Standardization" Scheme (Cross Country Cafes/Simplified Dinning etc) and another example of "if it works, change it!"

Along with "three day a week" Trains how did those plans work out??? :rolleyes:
Unfortunately this may be us. Nope, won't drive 95, but take the silvers and rent a car.

The loss of wine and cheese tasting will not bother me, though it does help pass the time since you board at 2:30, but don't leave until 4, but I'm sure it will a lot of others. And you really appreciate it when you get stuck with late dinner seating.

When you are paying over $1,000 for an overnight in coach, possibly $1500+ in a bedroom(and it has happened)you expect some level of customer service and a decent dinner( If you take it often you grow to hate "breakfast", but tolerate it).

Those who don't see any problem with just one lounge don't understand how crowded this train can be. We have often ridden with over 500 passengers. And since roomettes on the superliners have less leg room than the viewliners(or so it seems to us) if you cant afford/or score a bedroom, you tend to spend some quality time in the lounge. It is crowded now; what happens when you take one away and add more passengers?

And if you don't get to the station early enough, you will get 9 pm dinner, add some more passengers and you may eat at midnight.

I have ridden this train a long time ago, when they had dining light, and few amenities. I didn't ride again for 10 years or more, cause it wasn't worth it.

We'll be on it northbound April 16th, we'll see how it goes.
 
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Yes, pass riders are Amtrak employees and retirees who have pass privileges, much the same as airline employees have pass privileges. The proposal is to initiate some charge for some of the services that have heretofore been provided at no charge. I have not seen a thorough explanations of the ramifications.

For the sake of clarity and consistency, let's define a car as a railroad car, and we'll define automobiles, SUV's, vans, trucks, motorcycles, etc. as autos.

The train has carried 16 passenger cars, which is the summertime limit to the capacity of the H.E.P. system (A/C uses a lot of power). The extra coach is now running, for a total of 17 passenger cars. With 2 P40's on the head end, the train can haul about 32 to 34 auto carriers under F.R.A. regulations that limit the train's length. Each coach can carry about 70 passengers (I forget the exact number). Each deluxe sleeper (2 cars) can carry 32 passengers and each standard sleeper (4 cars) can carry 42 passengers. Very often, passengers will intentionally exceed the room's stated capacity. With 5 coaches on the train, this means a maximum capacity of about 582 passengers, as opposed to the previous capacity of 512 with 4 coaches. The fifth coach is already on the train, and passenger counts have been well above 500, frequently approaching 600.

Since there are 60 usable seats in the upper level of each diner, this means only about 540 usable seats will be available for three dinner seatings. Consequently, a fourth seating will often be necessary, and has been necessary on some occasions in the past few weeks. Seatings generally have taken about 2 hours from the beginning of one until the beginning of the next. The goal is to cut this time, which many passengers may find objectionable.

Carrying passengers without cars would involve some problems to be solved, including their meals. It has been considered and may be under consideration now.

Each auto carrier can hold up to 10 autos. That means somewhere between 320 and 340 autos. Since the usual ratio of passengers to autos is about 2:1, the available auto carriers should be adequate.
 
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