Algoma Central passenger service going away

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Nathanael

Guest
(Not directly VIA, but people might be interested.)

Harper government decided to remove funding. Ride it while you can.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/subsidy-cut-spells-end-to-sault-hearst-passenger-train-service-1.2514467

I did a little research.

The total "Regional and Remote Passenger Rail Class Contribution Program" is only scheduled to get $58.2 million over *five years*, according to Harper's budget (which I found in a few places, under the name "Economic Action Plan 2013). $11.66 million per year is not enough to support many trains, especially to remote areas with low populations.

Economic Action Plan 2013 proposes to provide $54.7 million in 201314

to support VIA Rails operations, and investments in its equipment.

Rail operators supported under Transport Canadas Regional and Remote Passenger Rail Class Contribution Program provide the only surface transportation option to several communities with no road links. Economic Action Plan 2013 proposes to provide $58.2 million over five years starting in 201314 to ensure that existing passenger rail services to remote communities can be continued.
VIA's "remote and regional" trains were reported to have farebox recovery ratios of less than 20%, and only $5.1 million in revenue, back in 2010. Based on this, the federal funding will cover less than half of the existing *VIA* "essential services" routes. The non-VIA routes seem to have been the first casualty. I guess we're going to see more cuts to "essential services".

Notice that the overall budget for VIA is also way too small and would probably cause VIA to shut down entirely. I doubt that VIA can pull off the trick Amtrak did of borrowing against its equipment until the government changes. I think this might have been increased in Parliament after the initial budget proposal -- there was a lot of complaint about it.
 
"..............Access to other transportation options........." like the highway (SUBSIDIZED) and air-service. probably subsidized............

Such "Cut off your nose to spite your face thinking.........."

Well, at least the USA is not the only Western country to have really STOOPID politicos!

Fricking makes me want turn into a terrorist.................
 
Sorry Nathanael, I think your figures are off.

To see the actual appropriations for VIA you need to look at the Main and Supplementary Estimates prepared by the Treasury Board of Canada. They show that VIA has received somewhat over $400 million annually in federal government funding for operations and capital investment. This number will go down, however, as the $1 billion capital investment program is now nearing completion.

The regional and remote services subsidies is something entirely different. It supports three non-VIA trains, i.e. Algoma Central, the Keewatin Railway mixed train going north from The Pas, Manitoba, and the twice weekly service from Sept Isles in the Lower St. Lawrence north to Labrador. Prior to last year it also supported the Ontario Northland Northlander train, but only on the Toronto to North Bay portion of the run, the remainder being funded solely by the Province of Ontario.

The problem, is that there are very specific criteria for this program, namely that the train serve regions that do not have access to the national transportation network. The program was subject to an evaluation in 2010, which raised this issue. In fact neither the southern tip of the Northlander nor the Algoma Central trains qualify on this basis. The other two do.
 
Oh, so the Regional and Remote Services fund *doesn't* fund the VIA Rail trains to VIA's (explicitly described as such) "regional and remote services" areas? (Jonequerre, Seneterre, White River-Sudbury, Prince George, Winnipeg-The Pas-Churchill). That has to come out of the standard VIA budget? Ouch. Are you sure about that?

I knew the "economic action plan" number couldn't be the actual budget number for VIA. Thanks. Apparently VIA is getting yet another round of operations funding cuts, though.'

FWIW, I did check and the new "rules" for the program were just invented in 2010 as an excuse to kill funding; they didn't exist before that.
 
Oh, so the Regional and Remote Services fund *doesn't* fund the VIA Rail trains to VIA's (explicitly described as such) "regional and remote services" areas? (Jonequerre, Seneterre, White River-Sudbury, Prince George, Winnipeg-The Pas-Churchill). That has to come out of the standard VIA budget? Ouch. Are you sure about that?

I knew the "economic action plan" number couldn't be the actual budget number for VIA. Thanks. Apparently VIA is getting yet another round of operations funding cuts, though.'

FWIW, I did check and the new "rules" for the program were just invented in 2010 as an excuse to kill funding; they didn't exist before that.
IIRC, VIA's remote service trains are a separate funding issue because VIA is required to maintain certain services. I'm not familiar with the logic/history there, but IIRC there's something there since the services are listed as "Mandatory" in VIA's reports.
 
I saw this as well and I am hoping to make it up there before the end of March...

are there any other operations like this I need to try to catch? (i.e. non-VIA "essential services")
 
Is there at least a bus service along this route? Greyhound sure doesn't operate any. Losing a train is bad, losing a train, then a bus, then a plane, is REALLY bad!
 
Ontario Passenger Local Gets Month Reprieve

The backwoods local passenger train between Sault St. Marie and Hearst, Ont., is getting a month reprieve from being discontinued.

Canadian National, which operates the former Algoma Central Railway local, had been to end the train on March 31 after the Canadian federal government ended its funding of the service. But the train will now operate through April 29.
 
Is there at least a bus service along this route? Greyhound sure doesn't operate any. Losing a train is bad, losing a train, then a bus, then a plane, is REALLY bad!
There aren't even continuous roads along this route. Apparently the fact that there are local branch roads leading to *most* points along the route, on often-convoluted road routings, was enough for the Harper administration to declare the route "non-essential".
 
Is there at least a bus service along this route? Greyhound sure doesn't operate any. Losing a train is bad, losing a train, then a bus, then a plane, is REALLY bad!
There aren't even continuous roads along this route. Apparently the fact that there are local branch roads leading to *most* points along the route, on often-convoluted road routings, was enough for the Harper administration to declare the route "non-essential".
Wow, going to strand those people in the middle of nowhere with only a dirt road leading out, and some places with nothing else at all? WOW, Canada! I better ride some more VIA Rail and Greyhound Canada before their cuts get ridiculous.

:(
 
Wow, going to strand those people in the middle of nowhere with only a dirt road leading out,
Well, I think most of the roads leading to these places are paved. (You know the sort I'm talking about: paved rural road with no striping, just a ribbon of asphalt.) But still... there's a reason people are complaining!...

and some places with nothing else at all? WOW, Canada! I better ride some more VIA Rail and Greyhound Canada before their cuts get ridiculous.

:(
 
Wow, going to strand those people in the middle of nowhere with only a dirt road leading out,
Well, I think most of the roads leading to these places are paved. (You know the sort I'm talking about: paved rural road with no striping, just a ribbon of asphalt.) But still... there's a reason people are complaining!...
Even a properly graded gravel road is a big step up from a dirt trail. I'm always surprised at people who equate the two.
 
Here’s the Ministry of Transport Highway Maps for Northern Ontario. They also show the Algoma Central, VIA’s Sudbury-White River route (CP’s Transcontinental Mainline) and VIA’s Canadian route from Capreol to the Manitoba border (CN’s Transcontinental Main) There’s very few parallel roads. Most cross the rail lines north/south connecting to the Trans Canada Highway.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/map/images/pdf/northont/sheets/Map12.pdf

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/map/images/pdf/northont/sheets/Map14.pdf

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/map/images/pdf/northont/sheets/Map13.pdf

It's a vast area......on the Canadian's route for example, it's 1400 km from Sudbury to the Manitoba border and takes 24 hours. And at the Ontario-Manitoba border there is only a single 2 lane highway, a single CPR track and a CNR track. There's nothing else connecting eastern Canada to western Canada starting at the Minnesota US/Can border and going as far north as you want.....Hudson Bay, Nunavut..... right to the Artic Ocean
 
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Here’s the Ministry of Transport Highway Maps for Northern Ontario. They also show the Algoma Central, VIA’s Sudbury-White River route (CP’s Transcontinental Mainline) and VIA’s Canadian route from Capreol to the Manitoba border (CN’s Transcontinental Main) There’s very few parallel roads. Most cross the rail lines north/south connecting to the Trans Canada Highway.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/map/images/pdf/northont/sheets/Map12.pdf

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/map/images/pdf/northont/sheets/Map14.pdf

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/traveller/map/images/pdf/northont/sheets/Map13.pdf

It's a vast area......on the Canadian's route for example, it's 1400 km from Sudbury to the Manitoba border and takes 24 hours. And at the Ontario-Manitoba border there is only a single 2 lane highway, a single CPR track and a CNR track. There's nothing else connecting eastern Canada to western Canada starting at the Minnesota US/Can border and going as far north as you want.....Hudson Bay, Nunavut..... right to the Artic Ocean
As always, your information is very useful. I have to say, Canada's population density is so low that it doesn't really need that many roads, the 2-lane TCH is probably enough for many parts, it's the parts that are not served by anything that are in trouble. For example, the aforementioned lodges that are only served by rail, I do hope they continue to be served by rail, and are not in the cancelled part of the ACR. Otherwise people might have to climb a freight train.

This makes me wonder, why not keep ACR pax service as a mized train? That would be better than nothing.

BTW, Greater Tokyo has more people than the entire nation of Canada, second largest nation in the world. While the Corridor is somewhat densely populated, the rest of Canada appears to be wide expanses of nowhere. No wonder trains have a hard time surviving.
 
The thing which is most troublesome is that the parallel "through" roads are really a long way away.

If you want to go from one point on the Algoma Central line "with a road" to another point "with a road", you can

(1) take the train

or

(2) take a winding rural road (perhaps asphalt without striping or maintenance, possibly gravel or dirt) for 30-50 miles west, then take the 2-lane highway north/south for however many miles, then take another rural road for 30-50 miles east.

There's no road which goes parallel to the railway line nearby; all the roads run transverse to the railway line. So it's extremely circuitous to get to most points on the railway line by road.
 
You maybe surprised, but the road network north of Superior, while not dense, consists of high quality, well engineered (and expensive) two lane highways. Hawk Junction, one of the few settlements on the ACR is 30 km (19 miles) east of the village of Wawa, which is on the Trans Canada Highway, not 30 to 50 miles.

More pertinently, there is virtually no permanent population along the railway line whatsoever. The population of the entire Algoma District, which covers 47,000 sq. km. is only about 118,000, of which 85,000 live in the City of Sault Saint. Marie or the Town of Elliott Lake. The only settlements along the railway besides Sault Saint Marie and Hawk Junction is Hearst, which is on the northern branch of the Trans Canada Highway. In the 2010 Transport Canada study of the remote passenger services the only location on the ACR identified as lacking year-round road access was Franz, which is not a settlement per se, but a railway agency Even there the distance was only 5 km and in any case the study noted that the assertion that there is currently no road access to Franz may not be correct, as the topographical map shows a road.

Bottom line: For practical purposes there are no permanent settlements that depend exclusively on the railway for access.

What about your point of getting from one place along the railway to another?

There are summer camps ( "cottages" as we say in Southern Ontario; "cabins" in the west, or "lodges" in the Adirondacks), i.e. seasonal recreational properties. The end of rail service therefore does raise an issue for remote tourism. Whether maintaining access of recreational property owners is worth a multi-million dollar annual subsidy is another matter, however. Float plane access is an alterative, since most of these properties are lakefront.

The ACR passenger train has experiences steadily declining ridership, because there simply is no traffic base. By 2009 the usage was down to 6000 per year, or 500 per moth, or less than 20 per train.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see the service continue. But by any realistic assessment of how governments spend infrastructure dollars it is a pretty thin case.
 
More pertinently, there is virtually no permanent population along the railway line whatsoever.
Yeah. The thing is, I wonder if the same is true on the other "essential services" lines. It seems to be.
From the overhead view, there appear to be no permanent settlements between Sudbury and White River without roads, either. Missanabie, I guess, has 62 people... it has a road. Does Amyot have population? Looks like it has a road too. Sultan (population 49) and Biscotasing (population 22) have roads. Perhaps the fact that the roads are privately owned is the difference?

I can totally understand the argument for eliminating ALL of these "remote services": not just the Algoma Central and the White River - Sudbury, but the Jonquierre and Senneterre services too.

The Jonquierre route seems to have *highways* to all the permanent settements, except Lac-Edouard, which still has a road.

What I don't see is how the Algoma Central route is any emptier than the others. It actually seems to be more justifiable to support it than to support the Jonquierre train. This makes me suspect that the plan is to get rid of all of them.
 
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Your point has been made on Canadian passenger rail forums, namely that VIA's remote and social services could be vulnerable if there only criterion were a lack of alterative transport options. That said, the 2010 Transport Canada evaluation study only examined the four non VIA -operated remote services, not VIA's mandated services. Of the four, one (the Toronto to North Bay portion of the Northlander) is already gone, and AGR service seems likely to go unless alternative funding emerges. But to reiterate, as was pointed out in an earlier post, AGR has operated its passenger service though a separate federal grant program from VIA Rail.
 
Your point has been made on Canadian passenger rail forums, namely that VIA's remote and social services could be vulnerable if there only criterion were a lack of alterative transport options. That said, the 2010 Transport Canada evaluation study only examined the four non VIA -operated remote services, not VIA's mandated services. Of the four, one (the Toronto to North Bay portion of the Northlander) is already gone, and AGR service seems likely to go unless alternative funding emerges. But to reiterate, as was pointed out in an earlier post, AGR has operated its passenger service though a separate federal grant program from VIA Rail.
 
OK, thanks for the info.

It seems clear to me that the only reason VIA's remote services have not been cut is in order to hamstring VIA's budget and force VIA to cut more useful services such as the southern Ontario services or the Ocean. This would be consistent with Harper's M.O. His plan is clearly to eliminate all federally funded passenger rail service in Canada. We'll see if he succeeds.
 
I think that if ridership is really so low and there's no big need for these remote trains anyway, might as well cancel them. The roads go to all the permanenet settlements and pretty much nobody is going to travel from a remote cottage to another remote cottage anyway, they would just head straight home via the highway.

What I really hope for comoing out of this is that the equipment and money saved will get redirected towards more popular, useful services, like the Canadian, which could use daily service. But this seems very unlikely given the current situation in Canada.
 
[SIZE=10.5pt]Federal Transport Minister, Lisa Raitt, is scheduled to visit Sault Ste. Marie next week and the speculation is she wouldn’t be visiting just to announce the Government was not going to renew the operating subsidy for the Hearst Train……but instead possibly to announce a one year extension and time for various agencies to seek funding to continue the train.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]There is a Federal Election scheduled for 2015 and funding could possibly continue until that time.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]>>>>> [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]And on the “Ocean” front: Mayors from communities in NE New Brunswick and eastern Quebec met with Minister Raitt last week and reports say they came away satisfied with the meeting and positive. [/SIZE]
 
Well, I'm glad to hear the hopefully-good news. However, this Canadian federal government has a bit of a reputation for saying things in private to reassure other governments -- and then not living up to them. So fingers crossed.
 
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