Meadowlands Rail Service

Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum

Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
1. How many riders will use these trains?
Know one knows. And no one will know until after the event.

2. Will the locomotive be positioned at the "north" or "south" part of the train set with regards to Secaucus Junction? What type of locomotive will be used (Alstom or Dual Power)?
Who cares which end the loco will be at?

As for what type of loco, why would NJT use a Dual Mode on a line that has no overhead catenary? Unless they're running short of locos, it would be a waste of the engine.
 
As I understand it from other sources, the locomotive is normally positioned on the north end for Meadowlands service to keep the diesel engine away from the terminal side of Hoboken. But as I understand the Meadowlands station orientation, if they run the trains engine-first (engine leading out of Hoboken) they lose the engine's length worth of platform, but I could only flip at coin as to what they would do.

As to the dual-modes, when i was in New York last summer, they were running them on the diesel-only services through Secaucus which caused me to do several takes as to what I was seeing (I checked their road numbers so I know it was the 45s), and they can't change modes in Hoboken, so it's certainly possible they'd use the ALP45s, but beyond that, I could only flip a coin again.
 
They used F40PH/ALP-45 engines leading out of Hoboken when I went to a Jets game, but this will be the Super Bowl so they may leave the engine out of the platform for another car.
 
From a NJ.com article, Super Bowl officials expect at least 10k to ride the train and 30k to arrive on buses. CBS also has a detail on the public transportation options that will be available throughout the week.

Andrew, Google is your friend. ;)
 
From a NJ.com article, Super Bowl officials expect at least 10k to ride the train and 30k to arrive on buses. CBS also has a detail on the public transportation options that will be available throughout the week.

Andrew, Google is your friend. ;)
1. Well, hopefully more riders will take the train than anticipated.

2. Lolz, after Chris Christie's "Bridgegate" Operation/Scandal, I am very confident that more out-of-towners will take the train to the Super Bowl!
 
They're using the Dual Modes because those are the only diesel locomotives that have enough HEP capacity for the 10 car multilevel trainsets that will be used for the service.
 
They're using the Dual Modes because those are the only diesel locomotives that have enough HEP capacity for the 10 car multilevel trainsets that will be used for the service.
Running at normal rated track speed they cannot handle 10 MLV's worth of HEP in D-mode. The 45s in D-mode can supply HEP for only upto 8 MLVs. That is the reason they are not going to be deployed on through Bay Head to New York rush hour trains (i.e. there will be no through Bay Head - New York rush hour trains), because it is essential that the rush hour trains be 10 cars on that line. This come straight from Kevin O'Connor Chief of Operations at NJT. Also, at present there is a significant shortage of 45s since fewest of the damaged 45s have been fixed of all classes of engines. My guess is PL42s will be used in preference to 45s.

The 45s can handle HEP for 10 MLVs in E-mode.One possibility is that they might use 45s at very low speed low acceleration run from SEC to Meadowlands, to be able to feed HEP for 10 MLVs, just as a special case. Or in the winter they could simply let HEP trip off specially if it is not too cold a day and run the trains without HEP. That would be an interesting data point
 
They're using the Dual Modes because those are the only diesel locomotives that have enough HEP capacity for the 10 car multilevel trainsets that will be used for the service.
Running at normal rated track speed they cannot handle 10 MLV's worth of HEP in D-mode. The 45s in D-mode can supply HEP for only upto 8 MLVs. That is the reason they are not going to be deployed on through Bay Head to New York rush hour trains (i.e. there will be no through Bay Head - New York rush hour trains), because it is essential that the rush hour trains be 10 cars on that line. This come straight from Kevin O'Connor Chief of Operations at NJT. Also, at present there is a significant shortage of 45s since fewest of the damaged 45s have been fixed of all classes of engines. My guess is PL42s will be used in preference to 45s.

The 45s can handle HEP for 10 MLVs in E-mode.One possibility is that they might use 45s at very low speed low acceleration run from SEC to Meadowlands, to be able to feed HEP for 10 MLVs, just as a special case. Or in the winter they could simply let HEP trip off specially if it is not too cold a day and run the trains without HEP. That would be an interesting data point
I would have had a lot more to say if you hadn't clarified with the second paragraph.

However, from a specification standpoint, the HEP rating for the 45s is 1000 kW regardless of mode, while the HEP rating for the PL42s is 800 kW.

Yes, if you siphon off all 1000 kW to HEP whilst the 45s are running in diesel mode, you only have enough continuous tractive effort to achieve a balancing speed that is relatively low, which is why they would not normally run 45s in diesel mode with a 10 car mlv consist for a longer scheduled run (as it would undoubtedly cause delays in the schedule). But for a short jaunt between SEC and the Stadium, it is acceptable. Not to mention, they've been running 10 car MLV shuttles powered by 45s whenever the shuttle service has been scheduled to run for at least the majority of December.

You also fail to acknowledge the fact that this service is going to be run on a weekend. Most of the 45s that are in revenue see service on the weekdays and are mostly restricted to the Hoboken division. I foresee no major complications that would prevent them from pulling 5 or 6 dual modes that would otherwise be sitting idly at the MMC on a Sunday, plus 50-60 MLVs which would also be sitting idly at the MMC on a Sunday and putting them to work. 5-6 consists max should be plenty to keep a roughly 10-20 minute departure interval for a run that is scheduled on paper to take somewhat less than 15 minutes one way. That would place 1-2 trains idling at each of the respective terminals with 1-2 trains on the road between the terminals.
 
They're using the Dual Modes because those are the only diesel locomotives that have enough HEP capacity for the 10 car multilevel trainsets that will be used for the service.
Running at normal rated track speed they cannot handle 10 MLV's worth of HEP in D-mode. The 45s in D-mode can supply HEP for only upto 8 MLVs. That is the reason they are not going to be deployed on through Bay Head to New York rush hour trains (i.e. there will be no through Bay Head - New York rush hour trains), because it is essential that the rush hour trains be 10 cars on that line. This come straight from Kevin O'Connor Chief of Operations at NJT. Also, at present there is a significant shortage of 45s since fewest of the damaged 45s have been fixed of all classes of engines. My guess is PL42s will be used in preference to 45s.

The 45s can handle HEP for 10 MLVs in E-mode.One possibility is that they might use 45s at very low speed low acceleration run from SEC to Meadowlands, to be able to feed HEP for 10 MLVs, just as a special case. Or in the winter they could simply let HEP trip off specially if it is not too cold a day and run the trains without HEP. That would be an interesting data point
1. Are you saying that Bay Head will never see direct train service into Penn Station?

They're using the Dual Modes because those are the only diesel locomotives that have enough HEP capacity for the 10 car multilevel trainsets that will be used for the service.
Running at normal rated track speed they cannot handle 10 MLV's worth of HEP in D-mode. The 45s in D-mode can supply HEP for only upto 8 MLVs. That is the reason they are not going to be deployed on through Bay Head to New York rush hour trains (i.e. there will be no through Bay Head - New York rush hour trains), because it is essential that the rush hour trains be 10 cars on that line. This come straight from Kevin O'Connor Chief of Operations at NJT. Also, at present there is a significant shortage of 45s since fewest of the damaged 45s have been fixed of all classes of engines. My guess is PL42s will be used in preference to 45s.

The 45s can handle HEP for 10 MLVs in E-mode.One possibility is that they might use 45s at very low speed low acceleration run from SEC to Meadowlands, to be able to feed HEP for 10 MLVs, just as a special case. Or in the winter they could simply let HEP trip off specially if it is not too cold a day and run the trains without HEP. That would be an interesting data point
I would have had a lot more to say if you hadn't clarified with the second paragraph.

However, from a specification standpoint, the HEP rating for the 45s is 1000 kW regardless of mode, while the HEP rating for the PL42s is 800 kW.

Yes, if you siphon off all 1000 kW to HEP whilst the 45s are running in diesel mode, you only have enough continuous tractive effort to achieve a balancing speed that is relatively low, which is why they would not normally run 45s in diesel mode with a 10 car mlv consist for a longer scheduled run (as it would undoubtedly cause delays in the schedule). But for a short jaunt between SEC and the Stadium, it is acceptable. Not to mention, they've been running 10 car MLV shuttles powered by 45s whenever the shuttle service has been scheduled to run for at least the majority of December.

You also fail to acknowledge the fact that this service is going to be run on a weekend. Most of the 45s that are in revenue see service on the weekdays and are mostly restricted to the Hoboken division. I foresee no major complications that would prevent them from pulling 5 or 6 dual modes that would otherwise be sitting idly at the MMC on a Sunday, plus 50-60 MLVs which would also be sitting idly at the MMC on a Sunday and putting them to work. 5-6 consists max should be plenty to keep a roughly 10-20 minute departure interval for a run that is scheduled on paper to take somewhat less than 15 minutes one way. That would place 1-2 trains idling at each of the respective terminals with 1-2 trains on the road between the terminals.
2. So which locomotive will be used? Also, if only 10,000 people are expected to ride NJ Transit Shuttle Trains, doesn't it seem that 10 multi-level coaches are too many?
 
They're using the Dual Modes because those are the only diesel locomotives that have enough HEP capacity for the 10 car multilevel trainsets that will be used for the service.
Running at normal rated track speed they cannot handle 10 MLV's worth of HEP in D-mode. The 45s in D-mode can supply HEP for only upto 8 MLVs. That is the reason they are not going to be deployed on through Bay Head to New York rush hour trains (i.e. there will be no through Bay Head - New York rush hour trains), because it is essential that the rush hour trains be 10 cars on that line. This come straight from Kevin O'Connor Chief of Operations at NJT. Also, at present there is a significant shortage of 45s since fewest of the damaged 45s have been fixed of all classes of engines. My guess is PL42s will be used in preference to 45s.

The 45s can handle HEP for 10 MLVs in E-mode.One possibility is that they might use 45s at very low speed low acceleration run from SEC to Meadowlands, to be able to feed HEP for 10 MLVs, just as a special case. Or in the winter they could simply let HEP trip off specially if it is not too cold a day and run the trains without HEP. That would be an interesting data point
1. Are you saying that Bay Head will never see direct train service into Penn Station?

They're using the Dual Modes because those are the only diesel locomotives that have enough HEP capacity for the 10 car multilevel trainsets that will be used for the service.
Running at normal rated track speed they cannot handle 10 MLV's worth of HEP in D-mode. The 45s in D-mode can supply HEP for only upto 8 MLVs. That is the reason they are not going to be deployed on through Bay Head to New York rush hour trains (i.e. there will be no through Bay Head - New York rush hour trains), because it is essential that the rush hour trains be 10 cars on that line. This come straight from Kevin O'Connor Chief of Operations at NJT. Also, at present there is a significant shortage of 45s since fewest of the damaged 45s have been fixed of all classes of engines. My guess is PL42s will be used in preference to 45s.

The 45s can handle HEP for 10 MLVs in E-mode.One possibility is that they might use 45s at very low speed low acceleration run from SEC to Meadowlands, to be able to feed HEP for 10 MLVs, just as a special case. Or in the winter they could simply let HEP trip off specially if it is not too cold a day and run the trains without HEP. That would be an interesting data point
I would have had a lot more to say if you hadn't clarified with the second paragraph.

However, from a specification standpoint, the HEP rating for the 45s is 1000 kW regardless of mode, while the HEP rating for the PL42s is 800 kW.

Yes, if you siphon off all 1000 kW to HEP whilst the 45s are running in diesel mode, you only have enough continuous tractive effort to achieve a balancing speed that is relatively low, which is why they would not normally run 45s in diesel mode with a 10 car mlv consist for a longer scheduled run (as it would undoubtedly cause delays in the schedule). But for a short jaunt between SEC and the Stadium, it is acceptable. Not to mention, they've been running 10 car MLV shuttles powered by 45s whenever the shuttle service has been scheduled to run for at least the majority of December.

You also fail to acknowledge the fact that this service is going to be run on a weekend. Most of the 45s that are in revenue see service on the weekdays and are mostly restricted to the Hoboken division. I foresee no major complications that would prevent them from pulling 5 or 6 dual modes that would otherwise be sitting idly at the MMC on a Sunday, plus 50-60 MLVs which would also be sitting idly at the MMC on a Sunday and putting them to work. 5-6 consists max should be plenty to keep a roughly 10-20 minute departure interval for a run that is scheduled on paper to take somewhat less than 15 minutes one way. That would place 1-2 trains idling at each of the respective terminals with 1-2 trains on the road between the terminals.
2. So which locomotive will be used? Also, if only 10,000 people are expected to ride NJ Transit Shuttle Trains, doesn't it seem that 10 multi-level coaches are too many?
I've already said. The service will be run with 45s and 10 car mlv sets. I don't know where you are getting this "only 10,000 people" number, but that is not the case, and NJT is expecting a somewhat higher number to use the shuttle service. They are not going to risk repeating what happened at the U2 concert, especially during the cold, blustery month of February. Also, I don't think they would invest in extending the platforms at SEC lower level to accommodate 10 car trains just to change their minds for the Super Bowl and not use them to full capacity. <--- See what I did there? Common sense. Once again, try using it once in a while; it'll answer a lot of your questions for you.

Also, I figure it's interesting to mention, Jis, that ALP-45DP 4523 was reported running on train 3922 on the NEC with a 10 car MLV set. Seems like a one off thing, since I haven't heard anything else since earlier this week. But then again, it was in electric mode lol.
 
Suppose NJ Transit eventually ends up claiming that, "20,000 people" will use the Meadowlands Train Service. Does this mean 20,000 people total, or each way (for a total of 40,000 trips)?
 
I wanna say in one direction. Last time they had problems with the U2 concert, it was because they didn't use long enough trains to handle the 20,000 people using the service to leave the Meadowlands.
 
If "Arctic Weather" is present, than will two locomotives need to be used for the Meadowlands Rail Service?

Also, how many miles is it (by train) between Secaucus Junction and the Meadowlands Train Station?
 
If "Arctic Weather" is present, than will two locomotives need to be used for the Meadowlands Rail Service?

Also, how many miles is it (by train) between Secaucus Junction and the Meadowlands Train Station?
If "Arctic Weather" is present, you can more than likely expect a change of schedule of the game itself. I doubt they would tack on another locomotive just for weather assurances.

Secaucus lower level is mile post 3.6, and the Meadowlands spur branches off at mile post ~8.6 or so. and the spur itself is 1.9 miles. Do the math.
 
On or about Friday, January 17 and continuing through early February, Raritan Valley Line trains will be a combination of both single and multi-level train sets operating between Newark Penn Station and points west to High Bridge.

The multi-level trains will be replaced with eight-car, single level sets in preparation for Super bowl Sunday service between Secaucus Transfer Station and MetLife Stadium. This temporary change will not impact service or seating capacity.

We apologize for any inconvenience and thank you for your patience.

http://www.njtransit.com/CustomerNotice?Id=2358
Over from RR.net. I didn't think this would be necessary, but I guess the guys on the inside would know better than I.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If "Arctic Weather" is present, than will two locomotives need to be used for the Meadowlands Rail Service?

Also, how many miles is it (by train) between Secaucus Junction and the Meadowlands Train Station?
If "Arctic Weather" is present, you can more than likely expect a change of schedule of the game itself. I doubt they would tack on another locomotive just for weather assurances.

Secaucus lower level is mile post 3.6, and the Meadowlands spur branches off at mile post ~8.6 or so. and the spur itself is 1.9 miles. Do the math.
What source did you use for those mile post facts?
 
If "Arctic Weather" is present, than will two locomotives need to be used for the Meadowlands Rail Service?

Also, how many miles is it (by train) between Secaucus Junction and the Meadowlands Train Station?
If "Arctic Weather" is present, you can more than likely expect a change of schedule of the game itself. I doubt they would tack on another locomotive just for weather assurances.
Secaucus lower level is mile post 3.6, and the Meadowlands spur branches off at mile post ~8.6 or so. and the spur itself is 1.9 miles. Do the math.
What source did you use for those mile post facts?
The Rich Green track maps.
 
What happens if there is a Hudson Tunnel Problem or a stalled Meadowlands Shuttle Train on the day of the Super Bowl?
 
What happens if there is a Hudson Tunnel Problem or a stalled Meadowlands Shuttle Train on the day of the Super Bowl?
Probably a delay.
And cross-honoring of tickets. If the North River Tubes are down they can always run the shuttles from Hoboken to Meadowlands and ask people to take PATH from 33rd St to Hoboken. There are available redundancies to handle the situation.
 
Back
Top