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Path Train Extension


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#21 Guest_Andrew_*

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 01:42 PM

Folks,

 

Some good news coming out of the Port Authority...

 

http://online.wsj.co...LEFTAPHeadlines



#22 jis

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 03:40 PM

Yup, it will be extended to the EWR Rail station.

#23 afigg

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:21 PM

Folks,

 

Some good news coming out of the Port Authority...

 

Whether it is good news depend on your point of view. While extending PATH to the Newark Airport stop adds utility to PATH providing a direct connection between the PATH stops in Manhattan and EWR, $1.5 billion is expensive for a 1 stop extension. The extension will also drive up the operating costs of PATH with an additional station, more track miles to maintain, and more rolling stock to maintain service frequencies. I am not saying it is a bad idea, but it is a lot to spend for an airport stop that already has direct service from NYP via NJT.

 

Also, allocating $1.5 billion to the EWR extension means that money won't be available for other capital projects in the coming years, such as .... dare I say it, NEC Gateway.



#24 Guest_Andrew_*

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:12 PM

Well, $7.9 Billion is going to get allocated for PA Bridges and Tunnels:

 

$1 Billion for Bayonne Bridge Replacement

 

$1.5 Billion for Goethels Bridge

 

$1.2 Billion for George Washington Bridge modernization

 

What's the rest of the $4.2 Billion?  



#25 afigg

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 01:31 AM

Well, $7.9 Billion is going to get allocated for PA Bridges and Tunnels:

 

$1 Billion for Bayonne Bridge Replacement

 

$1.5 Billion for Goethels Bridge

 

$1.2 Billion for George Washington Bridge modernization

 

What's the rest of the $4.2 Billion?  

Read the draft 2014-2023 Port Authority Capital Plan which has been posted on the PANYNJ Corporate Information webpage to find out. Press releases usually will list the high profile projects, not the less sexy nuts and bolts projects.

 

The question is why does the extension cost $1.5 billion? Has the PA released feasibility and engineering studies? How much will the PA need to set aside to spend on legal representation to deal with the supoenas and investigations in the wake of Bridge gate and lots of questions suddenly being asked about how the NJ side of the PA is being run?  Stay tuned.   :P



#26 Guest_Andrew_*

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:38 AM

Why not use the money that is going to get used for the Path Extension and the Newark Airport Upgrade for Gateway?!



#27 jis

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:07 PM

Newark Airport Upgrade money may not be available for use on anything but airport since some of it may be coming from air passenger charge funds. I am actually curious to see if they will play the sort of games they played with the JFK Airtrain to figure out a way to fund the PATH Extension out of air passenger funds too. But probably not since then they will have to most likely commit to never operate a through PATH train from EWR to anywhere beyond Newark.

PANYNJ will have to find the money for Gateway from its Bridge and Tunnel funds which is essentially funded from real estate and from bridge and tunnel tolls.

I personally would not trade Newark Airport Improvements with Gateway. Both are necessary and it is not an either or proposition at all. Fortunately EWR Improvement has a captive source of funds. Unfortunately Gateway at present does not.

Edited by jis, 05 February 2014 - 01:55 PM.


#28 Fan Railer

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 01:35 PM

Why not use the money that is going to get used for the Path Extension and the Newark Airport Upgrade for Gateway?!

Your obsession with Gateway is bordering on unhealthy.



#29 Guest_Andrew_*

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:21 PM

Newark Airport Upgrade money may not be available for use on anything but airport since some of it may be coming from air passenger charge funds. I am actually curious to see if they will play the sort of games they played with the JFK Airtrain to figure out a way to fund the PATH Extension out of air passenger funds too. But probably not since then they will have to most likely commit to never operate a through PATH train from EWR to anywhere beyond Newark.

PANYNJ will have to find the money for Gateway from its Bridge and Tunnel funds which is essentially funded from real estate and from bridge and tunnel tolls.

I personally would not trade Newark Airport Improvements with Gateway. Both are necessary and it is not an either or proposition at all. Fortunately EWR Improvement has a captive source of funds. Unfortunately Gateway at present does not.

 

But Gateway funding was not presented within the Port Authority's recently listed 10 year Capital Plan. Does this mean that--besides the both phases of the tunnel box and the Portal Bridge Replacement Project--that Gateway will not begin major construction until 2024?!



#30 jis

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:31 PM

PANYNJ is not the only source of funds for Gateway, and also funding plans never stay the same over a 10 year period at PANYNJ. It blows with the wind depending on who the Governor of the two states are and what else comes to pass.

But let me remind you that I have said all along that the construction of Gateway is not imminent. It is you that suffer from these odd fantasies and lose sleep over it.

#31 Guest_Andrew_*

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 08:26 PM

PANYNJ is not the only source of funds for Gateway, and also funding plans never stay the same over a 10 year period at PANYNJ. It blows with the wind depending on who the Governor of the two states are and what else comes to pass.

But let me remind you that I have said all along that the construction of Gateway is not imminent. It is you that suffer from these odd fantasies and lose sleep over it.

 

So maybe in a few years after the Geothels Bridge gets replaced and WTC construction gets completed and the Bayonne Bridge gets raised that the Port Authority will commit funding for Gateway?



#32 jis

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:55 AM

It might. Then again it might not. It all depends on the two Governors involved. PANYNJ in and of itself will do nothing since they have no revenue stream that would accrue to them from Gateway.


Edited by jis, 05 December 2017 - 08:00 AM.


#33 Guest_Andrew_*

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:03 PM

Well, hopefully at some point in the future, the Port Authority will fund more transportation improvements--such as Gateway--from their capital plan as the WTC Construction concludes. 

 

From http://www.nj.com/ne...n_unveiled.html

"another $4.9 billion is set aside over the next five years to complete the redevelopment of the World Trade Center site, an achievement that Rechler said would then allow the agency to focus on its core mission of enhancing transportation and economic growth in the bi-state region".

 

 

 


#34 Green Maned Lion

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 09:15 PM

 

Well, hopefully at some point in the future, the Port Authority will fund more transportation improvements--such as Gateway--from their capital plan as the WTC Construction concludes. 

 

From http://www.nj.com/ne...n_unveiled.html

"another $4.9 billion is set aside over the next five years to complete the redevelopment of the World Trade Center site, an achievement that Rechler said would then allow the agency to focus on its core mission of enhancing transportation and economic growth in the bi-state region".

 

 

 

 

 

Or, if we are really lucky, Gateway in its current form will join ARC in the list of bad ideas never built, and the Raliegh-Clift proposal will actually be built. Or even better, they could just use the Reverse Kearny connection the way I envisaged and save a large number of zeros. 


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#35 PeterKsfo

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:32 AM

I would go for just more NJT service from EWR to NYP - and also a savings of the "user fee" for the airtrain from the terminals to the EWR rail terminal too.



#36 Thirdrail7

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 01:49 PM

We're finally taking baby steps....almost 15 years after the completion of the link.

 

http://www.northjers...blic/903469001/

 

 

NEWARK — The public was to get its first detailed look at the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey's $1.7 billion plan to extend PATH train service to Newark Liberty International Airport, a project that has engendered debate inside the agency over whether it should be shelved in favor of other initiatives.

The public comment session scheduled Tuesday night was to be the first of two in New Jersey's largest city, signaling the beginning of a mandatory environmental permitting process expected to take about 18 months. After that, construction is expected to take several more years.


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#37 neroden

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Posted 04 December 2017 - 10:25 PM

This shouldn't be that expensive.  Even being almost entirely elevated, with some underpasses, and electrification and so on, this is blatantly overpriced.

 

It needs some aggressive rebidding, such as happened on Boston's Green Line extension.  Once it was made clear that the first builder was price gouging, and once that builder was fired, the rebidding came in at half the price.

 

I can only assume that mobbed-up New Jersey construction companies are the problem -- or perhaps grafting Port Authority commissioners.  There's no other explanation I can think of.


Edited by neroden, 04 December 2017 - 10:25 PM.

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#38 Green Maned Lion

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Posted 05 December 2017 - 07:53 AM

Its New Jersey, which makes the Daley machine look like choir boys. I dont bother commenting on the price, so long as it is built well enough to work.
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