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#141 DSS&A

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 08:21 AM

Texas Central Railway announced yesterday that they have awarded a Design-Build contract to complete the design work and build the railroad.

http://www.progressi...-project--52432

#142 Bob Dylan

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 08:36 AM

Texas Central Railway announced yesterday that they have awarded a Design-Build contract to complete the design work and build the railroad.

http://www.progressi...-project--52432

This is Good News, ( as opposed to "Fake News") but the NIMBYs in Texas ( Land Rights, not Tree Huggers)are very strong and will be heard from!

They actually kept Governor for Life Rick Perry from getting his Highways and Toll Roads to Everywhere Scheme from getting implemented in Texas!Earler they defeated several HSR Plans in Texas!

Texas: The Best Government Money Can Buy!

Edited by Bob Dylan, 15 August 2017 - 08:38 AM.

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#143 frequentflyer

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 05:50 PM

http://www.chron.com...#photo-12466722

 

Clears another hurdle.



#144 neroden

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 09:45 AM

I wish them luck, but without (a) financing and (b) land acquisition complete, I'm guessing this will never happen.  If it does, odds are they go bankrupt quickly, simply because their financing terms are likely to be too onerous for the slim margins of a single rail line to cover the interest (see: Channel Tunnel).


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#145 Anderson

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Posted 06 January 2018 - 05:01 PM

 

Texas Central Railway announced yesterday that they have awarded a Design-Build contract to complete the design work and build the railroad.

http://www.progressi...-project--52432

This is Good News, ( as opposed to "Fake News") but the NIMBYs in Texas ( Land Rights, not Tree Huggers)are very strong and will be heard from!

They actually kept Governor for Life Rick Perry from getting his Highways and Toll Roads to Everywhere Scheme from getting implemented in Texas!Earler they defeated several HSR Plans in Texas!

Texas: The Best Government Money Can Buy!

 

I think you forget that Southwest was also opposed to the previous HSR plans, whereas now I've gathered that they would rather use those scarce gates at DAL for something other than flights to Houston.


Capitol Limited (7), CA Zephyr (4) Lake Shore Limited (1), Acela (2), NE Regional (2), Sliver Meteor (4)

Upcoming: Silver Meteor (1), Lake Shore Limited (1), SW Chief (2), MO River Runner (1), Texas Eagle (1)

Possibly Upcoming: Either Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (2) or Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (1)

#146 VentureForth

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 09:55 AM

I still don't get why they wouldn't follow the I-35 --> I-10 Corridor. They'd pick up three more major Texas cities and STILL be able to get to Houston from Dallas faster than driving I-45 (That is, if they are truly a Shinkansen-level HSR).

14,223 Amtrak Miles. Many more to go.
Completed Routes: Capitol Limited, Palmetto
Also Ridden: Carolinian, Crescent, Pacific Surfliner, Piedmont, Southwest Chief, Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Texas Eagle


#147 cirdan

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 10:50 AM

I wish them luck, but without (a) financing and (b) land acquisition complete, I'm guessing this will never happen.  If it does, odds are they go bankrupt quickly, simply because their financing terms are likely to be too onerous for the slim margins of a single rail line to cover the interest (see: Channel Tunnel).

 

The problem with the Channel Tunnel was that they were tunneling, and also that the governments of both countries kept upping safety demands which called for redesigns.

 

Texas Central is being built in open countryside where the situation is much more predictable and controllable. 



#148 Anderson

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Posted 09 January 2018 - 06:26 PM

I still don't get why they wouldn't follow the I-35 --> I-10 Corridor. They'd pick up three more major Texas cities and STILL be able to get to Houston from Dallas faster than driving I-45 (That is, if they are truly a Shinkansen-level HSR).

There's been at least some speculation that they might put in some sort of line in that direction down the road.  The issue is that they've said they need super-fast travel times to be able to really knock out the airline market (and/or to be able to claim a premium for folks not taking the highway).

Edit: Not to mention the mileage involved.  Driving-wise, Dallas-Austin-Houston is 360 miles while Dallas-Houston is 240 miles.  Dallas-San Antonio-Houston is 470 miles (though some of that mileage could probably be reduced if the Austin-San Antonio and San Antonio-Houston legs use the same tracks).  120-210 more miles of bullet train tracks, not to mention the costs of going into/through major cities, would probably have made the project unworkably expensive.  Additionally, you're really pushing travel time up with the forced routing (240 miles at 160 MPH is 1.5 hours, 360 miles at 160 MPH is 2.25 hours, and 470 miles at 160 MPH is right under three hours assuming no transfers, etc.).  One straightforward market at X cost is arguably easier to deal with than a half-dozen mixed markets at 2-3x the cost.

What seems most likely is that they would eventually build an Austin-San Antonio line which meets the existing line somewhere around the equivalent of College Station (they might even run by there), but Dallas-Houston really makes sense as an MOS.


Edited by Anderson, 09 January 2018 - 06:36 PM.

Capitol Limited (7), CA Zephyr (4) Lake Shore Limited (1), Acela (2), NE Regional (2), Sliver Meteor (4)

Upcoming: Silver Meteor (1), Lake Shore Limited (1), SW Chief (2), MO River Runner (1), Texas Eagle (1)

Possibly Upcoming: Either Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (2) or Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (1)

#149 cirdan

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 05:49 AM

I agree.

 

They need to do one thing at a time. Only government-backed railroads have the luxury of being able to plan ultra long term and provide options for future expansion and variants that may or may not be built in several decades time.

 

The beauty of the present proposal is that most of it is located in open countryside where land is relatively cheap and construction can be commenced and completed quickly. I have my doubts about the routing at the Houston end. Would it have been possible to serve Goeorge Bush Intercontinental Airport? Would it be possible to establish a station closer to downtown? But these are huge cost factors and also involve planning processes with long time horizons. Sometimes the better can be the greatest enemy of the good.



#150 VentureForth

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 06:36 AM

Railroads should not connect airports. That's what planes do, and is really one of the biggest irritations of flying: then having to get into town. No Japanese real line has a major termine or station at an airport. They are at population centers. Both ends of this project should connect to major ground transportation hubs.

14,223 Amtrak Miles. Many more to go.
Completed Routes: Capitol Limited, Palmetto
Also Ridden: Carolinian, Crescent, Pacific Surfliner, Piedmont, Southwest Chief, Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Texas Eagle


#151 Palmetto

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 07:04 AM

The French do, though.  Lyon St-Exupéry comes to mind with its TGV stop.



#152 jis

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 07:11 AM

The French do, though.  Lyon St-Exupéry comes to mind with its TGV stop.

Not to mention Roissy Charles de Gaulle TGV.

The Germans do it too - Frankfurt Rhine-Main Airport Station. The Dutch do an excellent job at Schiphol. Brits want to do it at Heathrow, Birmingham and Manchester as part of HS-2. Even where there is no station on a HSR route, there is very frequent connecting service to such a station from the Airport station. This happens even in Japan, e.g. NeX from Narita to Tokyo Central.

Actually the trend is to weave the rail and air modes together so that it is possible to replace short hop flights by trains.

In the case of Orlando, the airport happens to be the biggest ground transportation hub irrespective of whether it meets everyone’s pre-conceived notion of where a ground transportation hub should be. It also has been in the plans for further development as a ground transportation hub from way before anyone thought of Brightline.

The only other thing that remotely resembles a transportation hub is the Lynx Central Bus Terminal which does not serve any significant intercity mode, nor is slated to.


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Edited by jis, 10 January 2018 - 08:58 AM.


#153 cirdan

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 08:10 AM

Not to metion that, at least in the French and Gerrman example, it is not just a co-loaction of facilities but there is actual cooperation, with both SNCF and DB offering code sharing on a selection of trains. I don't know how many passengers make use of that. I have been on trains in Germany where in the announcement they specifically welcomed Lufthansa passengers.



#154 VentureForth

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 09:49 AM

N'Ex to Tokyo is taking folks from the airport to the associated city center. They don't run the Shinkansen from Narita to the Osaka city center.

Yes, a fully integrated system is ideal, but there are so many government entities and bureaucracies involved that it's amazing, really, that ANYTHING gets close to being accomplished.

One fine example of cooperation was with the NM Railrunner. Folks in Santa Fe can take the commuter train to the Alvarado Transportation Center and take a coordinated bus on to the airport.

14,223 Amtrak Miles. Many more to go.
Completed Routes: Capitol Limited, Palmetto
Also Ridden: Carolinian, Crescent, Pacific Surfliner, Piedmont, Southwest Chief, Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Texas Eagle


#155 Anderson

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:43 PM

I agree.

 

They need to do one thing at a time. Only government-backed railroads have the luxury of being able to plan ultra long term and provide options for future expansion and variants that may or may not be built in several decades time.

 

The beauty of the present proposal is that most of it is located in open countryside where land is relatively cheap and construction can be commenced and completed quickly. I have my doubts about the routing at the Houston end. Would it have been possible to serve Goeorge Bush Intercontinental Airport? Would it be possible to establish a station closer to downtown? But these are huge cost factors and also involve planning processes with long time horizons. Sometimes the better can be the greatest enemy of the good.

Well, and for all we know there's stuff on a non-public drawing board somewhere for some of these things.  As an example, look at Brightline: They have clearly said that while they plan to do certain things (i.e. add a Cocoa station and possibly one more somewhere along the coast, IIRC) they can't do that now since it would force them to revise their various statements and filings (even if "build two sidings and a building in the middle of a city" would have a negligible impact on the overall project aside from impacting their bottom line) since it would likely alter ridership projections and so on.  Yes, the impact would almost assuredly be positive, but since there's a risk that it could be negative...

Texas Central is probably in the same boat, in addition to those costs.  A profitable line from "somewhere around Houston" to downtown Dallas would seem to open the door to both extensions within each metro area (downtown Houston/one of the airports on that end and DAL/DFW/Fort Worth on the other end) as well as Austin/San Antonio.


Capitol Limited (7), CA Zephyr (4) Lake Shore Limited (1), Acela (2), NE Regional (2), Sliver Meteor (4)

Upcoming: Silver Meteor (1), Lake Shore Limited (1), SW Chief (2), MO River Runner (1), Texas Eagle (1)

Possibly Upcoming: Either Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (2) or Texas Eagle (1), Capitol Limited (1), Silver Meteor (1)

#156 cirdan

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:47 AM

 

I agree.

 

They need to do one thing at a time. Only government-backed railroads have the luxury of being able to plan ultra long term and provide options for future expansion and variants that may or may not be built in several decades time.

 

The beauty of the present proposal is that most of it is located in open countryside where land is relatively cheap and construction can be commenced and completed quickly. I have my doubts about the routing at the Houston end. Would it have been possible to serve Goeorge Bush Intercontinental Airport? Would it be possible to establish a station closer to downtown? But these are huge cost factors and also involve planning processes with long time horizons. Sometimes the better can be the greatest enemy of the good.

Well, and for all we know there's stuff on a non-public drawing board somewhere for some of these things.  As an example, look at Brightline: They have clearly said that while they plan to do certain things (i.e. add a Cocoa station and possibly one more somewhere along the coast, IIRC) they can't do that now since it would force them to revise their various statements and filings (even if "build two sidings and a building in the middle of a city" would have a negligible impact on the overall project aside from impacting their bottom line) since it would likely alter ridership projections and so on.  Yes, the impact would almost assuredly be positive, but since there's a risk that it could be negative...

Texas Central is probably in the same boat, in addition to those costs.  A profitable line from "somewhere around Houston" to downtown Dallas would seem to open the door to both extensions within each metro area (downtown Houston/one of the airports on that end and DAL/DFW/Fort Worth on the other end) as well as Austin/San Antonio.

 

 

this, absolutely



#157 Rover

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 06:48 AM

For Amtrak users coming from the east arriving in Houston at 618PM on the Sunset Limited, they could connect with the TC, and be in Dallas by 9PM or earlier.

 

But coming from the west, it would just be easier for Amtrak users to get off in San Antonio and wait to leave at 7AM to get to Dallas by 320PM.

 

I am hoping that the TC will have departures as late as 12:30am, so you could see a concert or sporting event, and still get back home, without having to book a room. I know there's the non-stop buses between Houston and Dallas, but I don't know the times.

I'd rather ride for 1 1/2 hours than for 5 hours on the bus.


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#158 Rover

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 06:55 AM

 

I still don't get why they wouldn't follow the I-35 --> I-10 Corridor. They'd pick up three more major Texas cities and STILL be able to get to Houston from Dallas faster than driving I-45 (That is, if they are truly a Shinkansen-level HSR).

There's been at least some speculation that they might put in some sort of line in that direction down the road.  The issue is that they've said they need super-fast travel times to be able to really knock out the airline market (and/or to be able to claim a premium for folks not taking the highway).

Edit: Not to mention the mileage involved.  Driving-wise, Dallas-Austin-Houston is 360 miles while Dallas-Houston is 240 miles.  Dallas-San Antonio-Houston is 470 miles (though some of that mileage could probably be reduced if the Austin-San Antonio and San Antonio-Houston legs use the same tracks).  120-210 more miles of bullet train tracks, not to mention the costs of going into/through major cities, would probably have made the project unworkably expensive.  Additionally, you're really pushing travel time up with the forced routing (240 miles at 160 MPH is 1.5 hours, 360 miles at 160 MPH is 2.25 hours, and 470 miles at 160 MPH is right under three hours assuming no transfers, etc.).  One straightforward market at X cost is arguably easier to deal with than a half-dozen mixed markets at 2-3x the cost.

What seems most likely is that they would eventually build an Austin-San Antonio line which meets the existing line somewhere around the equivalent of College Station (they might even run by there), but Dallas-Houston really makes sense as an MOS.

 

 

The TC website says they'll be traveling at 205mph. I assume they'll lay out the route so that the train does have to ever slow down from 205mph, until they approach the station. It also said they'll likely add a stop in Brazos county, later, for Texas A&M traffic.

 

Any spurs to Austin or San Antonio, if they come, will come after the backbone Houston to Dallas line is built.

 

Fluor is the designer and Lane is the constructor. I think they'll get the job done right the first time...


Edited by Rover, 31 January 2018 - 06:56 AM.

I've ridden: ~ The Empire Builder 1981 ~ The Coast Starlight 1981 ~ The Texas Eagle ~ The Sunset Limited ~
Books: ~ Time-Life - The Old West ~ The Railroaders * Rail Ventures - 4th Edition

 

I think it is absolute mythology that there's any national system that is profitable. And I think the naysayers just have to get over it. ~ Amtrak President Alex Kummant ~ June 2008

 


#159 VentureForth

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 08:03 AM

With all the images of the N700 Series Shinkansen stock they are talking about using, I'm almost hoping they'll throw in a Mt Fuji along the route for free.


14,223 Amtrak Miles. Many more to go.
Completed Routes: Capitol Limited, Palmetto
Also Ridden: Carolinian, Crescent, Pacific Surfliner, Piedmont, Southwest Chief, Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Texas Eagle


#160 Bob Dylan

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Posted 31 January 2018 - 01:01 PM

With all the images of the N700 Series Shinkansen stock they are talking about using, I'm almost hoping they'll throw in a Mt Fuji along the route for free.

ROTFLMAO!
Not much to see in this part of Texas except Farmland and Prisons!😄
"There's Something About a Train! It's Magic!"-- 1970s Amtrak Ad
 "..My heart is warm with the friends I make,and better friends I'll not be knowing,
Yet there isn't a train I wouldn't take,No matter where its going!.." -Edna St. Vincent Millay




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