what happened to all the Palmetto 2-1 business class cars? (see pictur

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I was looking at my old photos. This picture was taken about 5 years ago when I rode the Palmetto business class. I believe it was when the train was somewhere in South Carolina. Sweet 2-1 seating. The attendant even brought the free sodas to your seat.(instead of you going to the cafe car to beg for the free soda :D )

Are these car still in use somewhere in Amtrak's system?

Thanks! :)

Palmetto.jpg
 
In the NE there used on the overnight regional, Downeaster, Vermonter, Maple Leaf, Ethan Allen and Empire Service Trains.
 
Once in a blue moon you'll see one of these cars on the Carolinian.

AFAIK, the seating was in only half the car.

BC on the Palmetto is now the same kind of Amfleet II car as regular coach. You're paying for that free soda. I think it's a ripoff.
 
Is it not at least a BC Amfleet II (i.e. footrests, 62 seats instead of 72)? Or is coach on the Palmetto all "new BC" seating?
 
Once in a blue moon you'll see one of these cars on the Carolinian.
AFAIK, the seating was in only half the car.

BC on the Palmetto is now the same kind of Amfleet II car as regular coach. You're paying for that free soda. I think it's a ripoff.
well... sort of... I rode the Palmetto from DC to Fayetteville, NC(more than 300 miles, almost 6 hours) and back several times. For such "short" distance passengers, you're forced to sit in the Amfleet I coach cars. It's cramped and unplesant. I don't understand how they can get away with doing this. I once asked the conductor and he said that the roomier Amfleet II coach seats are reserved for passengers going from DC to Savannah. I think that's just wrong. Perhaps this is how Amtrak force people to buy business class between DC and NC?
 
Is it not at least a BC Amfleet II (i.e. footrests, 62 seats instead of 72)? Or is coach on the Palmetto all "new BC" seating?
Just took the Palmette earlier this month. The. business class was indeed a Business Class Amfleet II car. I only bought the business class "upgrade" because Amtrak conductors force people between DC and Fayetteville, NC to sit in Amfleet I coach cars with crappy legroom. No newspaper on a weekday. I felt ripped off! :D
 
They are also used on the Illinois/Missouri Trains between CHI and KCY (River Runner/Lincoln Service) and the Wolverine Trains to/from CHI! I first got hooked on these Seats on the old Metro Liners on the NEC!!
 
They are also used on the Illinois/Missouri Trains between CHI and KCY (River Runner/Lincoln Service) and the Wolverine Trains to/from CHI! I first got hooked on these Seats on the old Metro Liners on the NEC!!
they are excellent when riding the train by yourself.... the single seat allows good views and direct access to the aisle...

does anybody know why Amtrak no longer uses these cars for the Palmetto? How many of them are in Amtrak's fleet anyway?

THanks!
 
Typically these cars have been removed from those routes where demand for Business Class far outstrips the capacity of these cars, Palmetto being one of them.
darn... if Amtrak reconfigures the entire Amflee II business class car to 2-1, I'll gladly pay a little more money for it! :)
 
BTW, the full length Amfleet BC cars are not Amfleet II, they are Amfleet I ex-Metroliner cars of the 81xxx series.

There are no Amfleet II BC cars. However, the Amfleet II Coach cars (25xxx) are as comfortable as, if not more so, than the Amfleet I BC cars, and certainly have larger windows.
 
Yes - that can be seen in the blue water recirculating toilets as opposed to having the vacuum waste system. Unfortunately, BC sells quite a few seats on the Palmetto. Really, I think they could get away with a full length BC with 2x1 seating and charge 50% more for the BC upgrade than they are now. Right now, you don't get what you pay for, unless you get the faux leather. I'll bet a reconfiguration will generate enough to cover the cost of the conversions.

My last ride on the Carolinian and Palmetto, I noticed that the seats were a bit more comfortable than regular Amfleet II seats. They seemed to have a bit more "bucket" to them, and the seat bottom didn't have the irritating bar that chaps my butt.
 
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Unfortunately, apparently Amtrak has just a fixed inventory of those leather seats used in the 2-1 seating cars, which were all rescued from Metroliner MetroClub cars and have been reused. They have neither a source nor apparently the money to acquire more of those.

I suppose they could use the BC seats that are being used in Corridor bi-levels, or the FC seats used in Acelas for which there exists current source. But have not heard of any plans or any budget to do so.

Actually even just using the seats that one find in LD Coaches may do the trick too. But again I don't know whether they have any current source for those either. The problem with using standard LD seats is that I don't think they have too many singleton ones of those available.
 
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Just out of curiosity, was this a full car of 2-1 seating or just half a car of it?
There are no Club-Dinette cars that have 2 & 1 seating throughout the full car. All are half table, half seating. When the Metroliner FC cars were retired, that was the end of those seats being used in the full length of the car.

How many of them are in Amtrak's fleet anyway?
There are 44 Amfleet I's configured as Club-Dinettes and 11 Horizon cars configured in the same fashion.
 
The Palmetto and Pennsylvanian share consists. So their is four consists of 3 Amcan II coaches, 1 Amcan I Coach, 1 Amcan Cafe, and 1 Amcan I BC car. I rode the Pennsylvanian today from PHL-HAR. BC was pretty full. I'd say a little over half the car was full. but there were still a decent amount of double seats open. I would say there were between 35 and 40 passengers in the car.

Back in 2010 I took 43 PHL-JST and back to Philly 2 days later. At this point it still had 2x1. When my Mom and I boarded at PHL there were no doubles open for the taking, so we took single seats seating one in front of the other. BC was filled till Huntington/don which ever it is. At that point only 2 seats opened up. We were next to get off a couple hours later at JST. On the way back same deal, just we scored doubles.
 
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well... sort of... I rode the Palmetto from DC to Fayetteville, NC(more than 300 miles, almost 6 hours) and back several times. For such "short" distance passengers, you're forced to sit in the Amfleet I coach cars. It's cramped and unplesant. I don't understand how they can get away with doing this. I once asked the conductor and he said that the roomier Amfleet II coach seats are reserved for passengers going from DC to Savannah. I think that's just wrong. Perhaps this is how Amtrak force people to buy business class between DC and NC?
Those are the same cars that everyone gets on the NEC unless you spring for a BC upgrade. WAS-BOS is nearly 8 hours. NPN-BOS is either 12h50 or 14h40, so folks on the Palmetto actually have it better since they have a chance at getting into a more comfortable care without paying the BC upcharge.
 
Just out of curiosity, was this a full car of 2-1 seating or just half a car of it?
There are no Club-Dinette cars that have 2 & 1 seating throughout the full car. All are half table, half seating. When the Metroliner FC cars were retired, that was the end of those seats being used in the full length of the car.
Are you sure Alan? In that photo, I see 2-1 seating extending all the way to the "front" end of the car. No tables. No café.

Could it really have been a Metroliner FC car being used on the Palmetto just 5 years ago?
 
As far as I can tell the photo shows only half the car. Only the half ahead of the food service part in this case. The section with tables is behind the photographer.
On every one of these cars I have ever rode in, the seats have always faced the section with the tables. So, I was thinking that there couldn't be any tables behind the photographer.
 
Every one that I've been in (albeit not that many) they face away from the tables.

This makes sense as when the car is running at the front of the consist, the 2x1 seating is in the front of the car (facing forward, away from the tables) and the cafe portion is in the rear of the car. This way the coach pax don't have to tromp through the BC seats to get to the cafe.
 
The old dictum that "a dozen personal experiences don't make a general rule" holds here. :)

Ryan is right. When the car operates as the first car of the train the seats face the way shown in the photo. When it operates as the last car it is the other way round, i.e. the seats face towards the cafe section.

BTW, Alan and I are actually quoting information from a well maintained Amtrak Roster Record, and the people who maintain it. He did not just pull that out of his hat.

The gentleman who started and maintained that record went on to write a book : Amtrak by the Numbers. Check it out. It is pricey though. It contains a comprehensive history of every car and locomotive that Amtrak ever owned or operated in regular service between 1971 and 2011.

Additionally one can also refer to the Online Amtrak Equipment Roster maintained by the sister site OTOL that I alluded to above.
 
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Originally, those 2-1 cars were not limited to the Metroliner. They also provided similar up-charge service on some of the regular corridor trains - what are now called Regionals. It was a carry-over of the parlor car service of PRR and other railroads. The service on both the regular corridor trains and the Metroliner was called "Club Service" and included a hot meal. As the Acela was being prepared for launch, the Metroliner Club Service was renamed First Class.
 
Originally, those 2-1 cars were not limited to the Metroliner. They also provided similar up-charge service on some of the regular corridor trains - what are now called Regionals. It was a carry-over of the parlor car service of PRR and other railroads. The service on both the regular corridor trains and the Metroliner was called "Club Service" and included a hot meal. As the Acela was being prepared for launch, the Metroliner Club Service was renamed First Class.
A further perusal of records shows that for a brief period when the Acelas were going through their first hiccup (was it the brake disc failures or the yaw damper bracket failures I forget) some Metroliners were reintroduced, 5 of the Metroclubs were re-converted to full length 2-1 seating for use in those Metroliners. What are today called Amfleet I BC cars were essentially what were Coach cars in Metroliners.

These full length 2-1 seating Metroclub or First Class or whatever they were called (I don't remember) were converted back to half length 2-1 cars almost immediately after the Acelas came back and the Metroliners were withdrawn. So there is a chance that the OP came across one of those cars during the brief period that they existed.

On Metroliners I believe they were called Metroclub, a name carried over from the original EMU Metroliners.

My last memory of riding Club on other than Metroliners back in the days, was on a set of trains called New England Express that ran between New York and Boston for a period with a less than 10 min engine change stop at New Haven as I recall.
 
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