A
Austrian
Guest
let's say "Tony" rides Amtrak to Montreal.... if the Canadian doesn't permit him/her entry, will he be stuck at the station at the border? Just wondering...
Help Support Amtrak Unlimited Discussion Forum:
- Status
I know at Vancouver, where Customs & Immigration is done at the station and the trains run "sealed" between the border and Vancouver, they will be held by CBSA at the station until the next train, and then sent back.
Where they do inspection at the border, I imagine they would be likewise be held until the next southbound train. Since the inspection takes place after crossing and they are on Canadian soil, they can't just put you off, they have to get rid of you. Of course, since they are right at the border, I imagine they could just take you to the nearest offical non-RR (since you wouldn't be on a train) crossing point and kick you out. Unlike if you are driving a car over, where if they won't admit you and can't find another violation, they'll just make you turn around and drive back.
Not sure what Amtrak does, but they'd be within their rights to transport you back to the first US station and drop you there, if you didn't want to buy a ticket for another destination after being refused entry.
"Tony" should make dang sure he's admissible and have the right documents, otherwise he'd be in for quite a bad day.
Where they do inspection at the border, I imagine they would be likewise be held until the next southbound train. Since the inspection takes place after crossing and they are on Canadian soil, they can't just put you off, they have to get rid of you. Of course, since they are right at the border, I imagine they could just take you to the nearest offical non-RR (since you wouldn't be on a train) crossing point and kick you out. Unlike if you are driving a car over, where if they won't admit you and can't find another violation, they'll just make you turn around and drive back.
Not sure what Amtrak does, but they'd be within their rights to transport you back to the first US station and drop you there, if you didn't want to buy a ticket for another destination after being refused entry.
"Tony" should make dang sure he's admissible and have the right documents, otherwise he'd be in for quite a bad day.
Last edited by a moderator:
BCL
Engineer
http://www.amtrak.com/crossing-the-us-canadian-border
Sounds as if they'll make someone stay on the train for the ride back. A post in this thread says the check is done once you arrive in Vancouver. So you'll be in Canada, but they won't let you off the train.
http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/54202-clearing-customs-in-vancouver-at-train-station/
Sounds as if they'll make someone stay on the train for the ride back. A post in this thread says the check is done once you arrive in Vancouver. So you'll be in Canada, but they won't let you off the train.
http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/54202-clearing-customs-in-vancouver-at-train-station/
At Vancouver, you detrain before the inspection and proceed to the customs and immigration post inside the station, almost exactly the same as you do at an airport. If you are inadmissible, you'll be HELD at Vancouver, not on the train, until the next southbound departure, then put on that train. Unsure if they have temporary detention facilities in the station, but I imagine they do since it is a fully-fledged port of entry. If they don't, they'll hold you wherever and then bring you back for the train.
They don't leave you on the empty train to your own devices, even though the train itself is in Vancouver's famous "train jail". You'll be in custody until you leave.
They don't leave you on the empty train to your own devices, even though the train itself is in Vancouver's famous "train jail". You'll be in custody until you leave.
Last edited by a moderator:
"Tony" should read this page. It's full of information.
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/security-securite/admiss-eng.html
I didn't see any specifics about which types of crimes they consider "serious", but I will add that my friend was arrested for assault (she punched someone in a bar) three years before we went to Canada and didn't tell me about it. They discovered her record at the border, and we had to turn around and head back to Michigan.
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/security-securite/admiss-eng.html
I didn't see any specifics about which types of crimes they consider "serious", but I will add that my friend was arrested for assault (she punched someone in a bar) three years before we went to Canada and didn't tell me about it. They discovered her record at the border, and we had to turn around and head back to Michigan.
Last edited by a moderator:
NS VIA Fan
Conductor
If he's on the Adirondack, I imagine CBSA would take him of the train and send him back across the border.......either in their own CBSA vehicle or have the RCMP do it. Persumably just inadmissible to Canada but no reason to be detained on the US side so he would be free to just hang out in Rouses Point (and find a motel) until the s/b train the next morning. It's only 2 1/2 km from the CBSA check point back to the Amtrak Sta in Rouses Point and even closer to the US Border (road) check-point..
http://goo.gl/maps/QAkDa
http://goo.gl/maps/QAkDa
Last edited by a moderator:
Remember, that Canada considers DUI a serious offense and can deny entry for it. I understand they have lightened up just a bit, and if there is only one offense, they can issue a "Temporary Resident Permit" for the duration of the stay, but remember this is at the officer's discretion and requires additional paperwork, which takes time (and don't know if the train would wait).
CBSA has real-time access to US criminal databases. At Vancouver, they WILL run you, since they are at permanent workstations. Not sure how if they have mobile access when walking the train at other crossings.
CBSA has real-time access to US criminal databases. At Vancouver, they WILL run you, since they are at permanent workstations. Not sure how if they have mobile access when walking the train at other crossings.
fairviewroad
Engineer
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2011
- Messages
- 3,387
Lots of comments about Vancouver...but the OP specifically asked about Montreal. NS VIA Fan
probably has the most accurate answer, though absent personal experience the best any of us
can do is speculate. I suspect lodging options are rather limited in Rouses Point, NY.
probably has the most accurate answer, though absent personal experience the best any of us
can do is speculate. I suspect lodging options are rather limited in Rouses Point, NY.
Ryan
Court Jester
Whereupon you proceeded to punch her in the face?
I was piiiiiiissed. The Blue Water doesn't run that late, so I had to drive her all the way back to Lansing, where another friend graciously offered to meet us and drive her the rest of the way back to Kalamazoo so we could save two hours or so. My other friend and I turned back around and headed toward Toronto, our original destination. Instead of getting there at 10:00 PM, we got there at 4:00 AM. :angry:Whereupon you proceeded to punch her in the face?
A
Abe
Guest
I would guess the same thing happens to a train passenger as would happen to an airline passenger that was denied entry to a country...They would get sent back to the country they arrived from by the soonest available means.
A similar situation happened to me a few years ago, but on a different mode of transportation. I was riding with a friend and we took the car ferry from Seattle to Victoria BC. We got to the checkpoint after exiting the ferry near Viictoria and Canada Immigration found out my friend had a DUI from years past. They were going to admit me, but denied entry to my friend. It was the last trip of the day for the ferry, so they had to make a choice to either hold my friend on the ferry dock until the next morning or try for the last ferry to Port Angeles, Washington. They decided on the ferry to Port Angeles. It departed from a different dock a few Kilometers away, so we had to be escorted by some officers who had to make sure we made it onto the ferry. My friend and his car did not have to pay because they were denying him entry, but I had to pay for my return ticket because I was admitted to Canada. It was a foggy miserable trip back across. When we arrived at Port Angeles late at night, my friend showed his denied entry paperwork to US immigration, the border agent just chuckled and said this happens all the time, then just waved us through without asking any of the standard questions they ask at the border. I should mention this was in the mid-1990's so this was when you could still get across the border with just photo-ID and not any of the added requirements they have these days.
A similar situation happened to me a few years ago, but on a different mode of transportation. I was riding with a friend and we took the car ferry from Seattle to Victoria BC. We got to the checkpoint after exiting the ferry near Viictoria and Canada Immigration found out my friend had a DUI from years past. They were going to admit me, but denied entry to my friend. It was the last trip of the day for the ferry, so they had to make a choice to either hold my friend on the ferry dock until the next morning or try for the last ferry to Port Angeles, Washington. They decided on the ferry to Port Angeles. It departed from a different dock a few Kilometers away, so we had to be escorted by some officers who had to make sure we made it onto the ferry. My friend and his car did not have to pay because they were denying him entry, but I had to pay for my return ticket because I was admitted to Canada. It was a foggy miserable trip back across. When we arrived at Port Angeles late at night, my friend showed his denied entry paperwork to US immigration, the border agent just chuckled and said this happens all the time, then just waved us through without asking any of the standard questions they ask at the border. I should mention this was in the mid-1990's so this was when you could still get across the border with just photo-ID and not any of the added requirements they have these days.
Back in the Day when there still was a Draft and 17 and 1/2 Yr. Old Males had to Register with their Draft Board and carry a Draft Card, I saw Several Young Americans arrested @ the Border by US Officials (because they weren't Registered) when returning to the US from Canada, but Canada was Welcoming Draft Evaders and Deserters during that time and Admitted them! Any Arrest, Drug Offense or DUI was Grounds for Denial of Entry by Both Countries and many were Denied Entry and taken into Custody Awaiting Return to their Country of Origin by whatever means of Transportation!
Last edited by a moderator:
NW cannonball
Conductor
The problem for USA citizens seems to be that - old DUI are still a problem for CA.
Any government can reject any person at any border for any reason or none. It's is Canada's privilege to deny entry to DUI convicts.
The problem is that, recently, the CA is trusting the USA central records - which may, or may not be correct.
Any government can reject any person at any border for any reason or none. It's is Canada's privilege to deny entry to DUI convicts.
The problem is that, recently, the CA is trusting the USA central records - which may, or may not be correct.
G
Gord
Guest
Canadians entering the US can have the same problem. Just prior to 9/11, I had a friend turned back entering the US by car at Buffalo because of a refusing a breathalyzer test charge many years earlier. We had to drive back to the Canadian side where he filled out paperwork. We then went back to the US booths and were waved through.
Gord
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2003
- Messages
- 8,507
Makes you wonder how any professional sports teams can cross the border into Canada. I suspect that the rules that apply to regular people do not apply to special people.
As was said in the great book, Animal Farm, "All animals are created equal, some are just more equal than others."
At both the Niagara Falls crossing for the Leaf and the crossing for the Adirondack, if CBSA takes you off the train and then refuses to admit you, they'll drive you back to the nearest road border crossing and leave you with the US agents. To my knowledge the same would happen in Vancouver. I've never heard anyone say that they would just hold you until the next train back.
And if CBSA refuses entry for cause, the transportation back to the US border is on their dime. If however Amtrak failed to check that you had a passport or other valid document good for entry, then Amtrak gets the bill for returning you to the border. This is why Amtrak has the various checkin's at NYP & Seattle.
And if CBSA refuses entry for cause, the transportation back to the US border is on their dime. If however Amtrak failed to check that you had a passport or other valid document good for entry, then Amtrak gets the bill for returning you to the border. This is why Amtrak has the various checkin's at NYP & Seattle.
Vancouver is a fairly significant distance from the border, unlike Niagara Falls and Rouse's Point/St Lambert. I've been told they hold for the next southbound train, like they do for folks who arrive by air and are refused admittance. I asked once awhile ago (when you didn't have to have passports), while waiting for a friend who didn't have a passport to be released or refused. They apparently weren't completely happy with his documentation. In that case, they finally did admit my friend after secondary inspection/interrogation, and all's well that ends well.
All in all Vancouver works much more like customs and immigration at an airport than like the other trains.
All in all Vancouver works much more like customs and immigration at an airport than like the other trains.
Last edited by a moderator:
TVRM610
Conductor
But on the Cascades train there is a "screening" of sorta at the actual border. If you didn't have a passport with you, or something didn't pan out with the brief questioning, you would just be taken off the train right there at the border i imagine.
SubwayNut
Conductor
On the Cascades, Going southbound you go through immigration inside Pacific Central Station but don't clear customs until you phisically stop at the border. An official will come though and collect your customs decloration.
trainman74
Conductor
Do you really think every American pro athlete has a criminal record?
There have been occasional cases of individual players not being allowed into Canada, but even when that happens, it doesn't prevent the rest of the team from crossing the border.
TVRM610
Conductor
Yeah... That's what I was trying to say SubwayNut.
Only southbound for US Customs. Nothing is done at the border for Canada's clearance process.
Going north there is no stop at the border at all and no CBSA personnel board the train anywhere. Both Canadian Customs and Immigration are done at Pacific Central Station.
Going south, you go through US Immigration at the Pacific Central Station before boarding. The southbound train stops at the border at Blaine, WA where US Customs does their inspection. That is supposed the change in the near future with both US Immigration and Customs to be done at Pacific Central Station and no border stop in either direction.
Someone who is inadmissible to the US would be turned back right at the station by US Immigration and not allowed to board. No need to send him anywhere except out of boarding area because he's 30 miles away from the US border. If he's admissible but has a Vancouver souvenir of some BC bud, he'll get on the train and hope that US Customs doesn't find it and pull him off at Blaine.
Last edited by a moderator:
TVRM610
Conductor
Ohhh. I've only ridden Cascades south bound. Assumed there was a stop going north as well. Cool.
NW cannonball
Conductor
Not only sports teams. Back about 20 years ago, the University of Minnesota here (or was it the Minnesota Daily)
published a statistic that 10% of undergrads at the U of Minn had felonies on their record. What felony raps - didn't say.
There is a way to get yourself cleared to enter Canada despite old criminal records in the USA. Bit of a hassle. Never needed to try it myself. Is it a "TRP" or "TFAP" some such. See http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/inadmissibility/conviction.asp
- Status
