Man Pushed In Front Of Subway Train

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CHamilton

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Man Pushed In Front Of Train; Pic Makes Cover Of Post

In tragic and horrifying news out of New York today, police are searching for a man who was caught on camera pushing a man to his death onto subway tracks.
The incident occurred around 12:30 on Monday; the victim, 58-year old Ki Suk Han, fell onto the tracks and was unable to pull himself up before the train hit him. Witnesses say he was alive after he was hit and was moving; the scene was so grisly that the conductor had to be treated for trauma afterward.
 
The New York Post is a terrible yellow rag of a newspaper and New York City is a wonderful place to visit but I don't want to live there. This an example of why.
 
Aloha

I used to live in NYC and enjoyed the time. One thing that used to be taught was if you fell off the platform, lie down between the rails as there was enough clearance.
 
I've been to New York City several times and although I usually enjoy myself I would never expect any locals to help me in a time of need. No, I would expect them to gawk and snicker while taking photographs or videos. Just like this sorry group did.
 
One thing that used to be taught was if you fell off the platform, lie down between the rails as there was enough clearance.
That's not always true Eric. Yes, in some places it will work. But there are plenty of places where that will not work.

Actually the best thing you can do in most stations is to get into the middle clearance area between the different roadbeds, where the support columns are for the ceiling. Or in the case of center island platforms, the cutaways where the workers stand when trains go by. Then wait for help to come after the trains stop moving.
 
Here in Washington, there's supposedly enough of an overhang on the platforms that you can lay down in with sufficient clearance under the platform edge at every station. That also has the added benefit of keeping you away from the 3rd rail, which is always on the far side.

I guess that's not the case in NY?
 
Here in Washington, there's supposedly enough of an overhang on the platforms that you can lay down in with sufficient clearance under the platform edge at every station. That also has the added benefit of keeping you away from the 3rd rail, which is always on the far side.

I guess that's not the case in NY?
In many cases that is true in NY, but not all. And one still must take great care to make sure you are in far enough, as getting tapped by one of the third rail shoes will electrocute you very quickly. Hence if at all possible, it's better to go the other way as you know that you're past the reach of the third rail shoes because you're past the third rail.

And while I haven't inspected every station, in most stations the third rail is indeed farthest from the platform and I believe that is always the practice in all.
 
I think most people could figure out a way if they were given a couple of minutes. The real trick is getting to safety while the actual light of the train is bearing down on you. I'm not sure why the photog thought flashing his camera at the train operator would help...seems like that would be a distraction as well as potentially blinding.
 
'NY Post' Photographer: I Was Too Far Away To Reach Man Hit By TrainBy now you've probably heard about the front page photo on Tuesday's New York Post of a man struggling to climb out of an approaching subway train's way. He had been pushed on to the tracks by a stranger.

Ki-Suk Han, 58, did not make it. He died from the injuries he received.

The Post has gotten considerable criticism for publishing the image. And the photographer who took the photo, R. Umar Abbasi, is facing questions about his actions.

This morning, Abbasi got a chance to tell his story — on NBC-TV's Today Show, in the Post and in The New York Times. Abbasi says:

— When he realized what was happening, he started running toward Han. But "the victim was so far away from me, I was already too far away to reach him when I started running." (From the Post.)
 
I'm not sure why the photog thought flashing his camera at the train operator would help...seems like that would be a distraction as well as potentially blinding.
Normally a good operator would come flying into the station at track speed and would start applying the brakes about halfway down the platform. I'm sure that the photographer was thinking/hopping that by flashing the operator that he would realize that there was danger ahead and apply the brakes sooner. One doesn't even need to see to apply the brakes; simply taking his hand off the throttle puts the train into emergency.

Only the operator can tell us what he did/didn't do if he even saw the light from the photographer.
 
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I'm not sure why the photog thought flashing his camera at the train operator would help...seems like that would be a distraction as well as potentially blinding.
I'm sure that the photographer was thinking/hopping that by flashing the operator that he would realize that there was danger ahead and apply the brakes sooner.
You're sure huh?

Because so far this photographer doesn't appear to be the kind of person who is grounded in logic or honesty.

Waving your arms frantically might get the operator's attention.

Taking a series of surprisingly steady in-focus photos?

What sort of safety minded source is that kind of advice coming from?

Maybe the book of selling the pain of others for profit and fame?

For those who are still confused enough to think the folks on the platform were doing all they could to save this man's life, this is how it's done...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSxR5vV7syI

This is NOT how it's done...

2012-12-05-NYPostDoomedcover2.jpg
 
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From that picture it seems the guy who has fallen onto the tracks is standing at the edge of the track, staring into the train. I certainly don't know how many seconds he had before the train hit him, but if he was already upright, wonder why he did not start running away from the train on the tracks instead of standing there? I know you cannot win over a train's speed but it at least increases the time by a few seconds between you and the train, giving the engineer critical extra time to maybe stop the train. I also know when you have death staring at you, mind goes blank, but I think my survival instinct in such a case would have thought only one thing-RUN! RUN THE F*** AWAY FROM THE TRAIN AS FAST AS YOU CAN!
 
TE,

I tend to agree. I'm guessing that it was a panic lockup on his part, but especially since the train would presumably already be braking, he'd at least have a shot of making it (especially if the operator also notices the guy running and slams the brake harder). With that said, I'd kind of like to see the photographer sued for both standing by and taking a picture for publication that inflicts emotional distress.

As to the light from the photographer...that's a pretty non-descript signal that could quite simply be a subway foamer aiming for a good shot.
 
I tend to agree. I'm guessing that it was a panic lockup on his part, but especially since the train would presumably already be braking, he'd at least have a shot of making it (especially if the operator also notices the guy running and slams the brake harder).
Once the operator hits the mushroom (emergency brake button), and the motorman indicated that he did hit the schroom, there is no such thing as braking harder. In fact, the operator could get up and run to the far end of the car if he was about to hit something more substantial in an attempt to save his own life. There is nothing more that he can do, save maybe praying, once he's smacked the schroom. There are no other brakes to apply, there is no lever, button, or brake handle that he can push at all, much less harder to stop the train faster.

Emergency braking is the maximum amount of braking physically possible and it is uncontrollable.

Had the guy managed to get out of the way, the operator has no way to stop the emergency brake application and coast to a more gently & normal stop. That train will continue braking at maximum until it is stopped and the brakes are recharged.

With that said, I'd kind of like to see the photographer sued for both standing by and taking a picture for publication that inflicts emotional distress.
According to the reports that I've seen, and I grant that they were preliminary, the photographer was too far away to have reached the man in time to help him. The photog was on one of the morning shows and made that same claim. And the police so far don't seem to be contradicting his claim.

And sadly, I rather suspect that he's probably got a far more emotionally distressing shot that wasn't published, since Mr. Han was pinned between the subway car and the platform. :(
 
I'm not sure why the photog thought flashing his camera at the train operator would help...seems like that would be a distraction as well as potentially blinding.
I'm sure that the photographer was thinking/hopping that by flashing the operator that he would realize that there was danger ahead and apply the brakes sooner.
You're sure huh?
Based upon the reports that I had seen as of this morning, yes, I'm sure.

Waving your arms frantically might get the operator's attention.
Not a chance! Unlikely that the operator would have seen waving arms that far away. Subway stations are nearly 2 blocks long. Waving & flashing lights would be far more effective in this case. Not only would it be far more likely to catch the operator's eye, it's also what they're trained to be on the lookout for. Not because people fall on the tracks, but a waving flashlight is one of the indicators to a TO that workers are on the trackbed and that he/she needs to slow way down and take extra care as he passes, as well as sounding the horn.

What sort of safety minded source is that kind of advice coming from?
Assuming that I wasn't dealing directly with the victim, I can assure you that I would have been running down that platform waving my mag light at the TO hoping to get him to hit the schroom as soon as possible!

For those who are still confused enough to think the folks on the platform were doing all they could to save this man's life, this is how it's done...
You weren't there and we don't know what, if anything anyone did to try to help him. The circumstances are different depending on the situation. Heck, even the MTA in a story today basically said that what works in one station in terms of trying to get out of the way of an oncoming train may not work in the next station.
 
I'm sure that the photographer was thinking/hopping that by flashing the operator that he would realize that there was danger ahead and apply the brakes sooner.
You're sure huh?
Based upon the reports that I had seen as of this morning, yes, I'm sure.
So watching a softball morning news segment is enough for you to be certain but when anyone disagrees with your hypothetical assessment suddenly it's "You weren't there and we don't know what, if anything anyone did to try to help him." How convenient.

Waving your arms frantically might get the operator's attention.
Not a chance! Unlikely that the operator would have seen waving arms that far away. Subway stations are nearly 2 blocks long. Waving & flashing lights would be far more effective in this case.
(1) Which appendage is doing the waving in your example?

(2) How likely do you think it is that the sudden repetition of bright flashes was at least as distracting to the apparently confused and struggling VICTIM as it was to the train operator?

(3) Does seeing no benefit whatsoever change your mind about the futility of using a generic camera flash to signal the operator?

What sort of safety minded source is that kind of advice coming from?
Assuming that I wasn't dealing directly with the victim, I can assure you that I would have been running down that platform waving my mag light at the TO hoping to get him to hit the schroom as soon as possible!
Just like the photographer who somehow managed to get crystal clear images while running and waving carefully setting up his lucky photo for a quick payday.

For those who are still confused enough to think the folks on the platform were doing all they could to save this man's life, this is how it's done...
You weren't there and we don't know what, if anything anyone did to try to help him.
Neither were you, but that didn't stop you from telling us how sure you were about what was going on in this guy's head, no matter how nonsensical that sounds.

The circumstances are different depending on the situation. Heck, even the MTA in a story today basically said that what works in one station in terms of trying to get out of the way of an oncoming train may not work in the next station.
Apparently in this particular station carefully preparing crisp photos and selling them to a tabloid is the best way to save a life.
 
I'll just say this: Unless you're personally faced with a sudden, unexpected, emergency life-and-death situation, you are in no position to say what someone else who was there should have done.

Looking back on it now, it seems ridiculous that someone would think a single camera flash would alert the operator and get him to stop. Just like it seems obvious that instead of trying to jump from the track onto the platform, the victim should have run away/run over to the other side/ducked under the platform edge/laid between the rails, etc.

But when you're not expecting something to happen, and have no prior personal experience with that sort of event, your brain can be in a momentary state of shock and logic doesn't necessarily kick in right away. The couple of seconds that it takes for your brain to sort things out could very well be the difference between someone living and someone dying, but nonetheless, that's just how it is.

Now, it could be that the photographer is lying about certain details in order to try and minimize the criticism thrown his way. But it's also possible that what he's saying was true, at least as his brain was figuring during the few seconds he had to react. In the absence of anything more concrete, I'll defer to someone who was there (the photographer, in his statements to the police/press) rather than someone sitting behind a computer in Texas safely removed from any actual direct contact or personal experience with the situation.

As for the newspaper's decision to publish the photo on their front page, I think that was rather poor taste, and the editors certainly had more than two seconds to react and make the decision on what to put there. But then again, with the quality of news reporting these days, sometimes I wonder if anybody even spends two seconds thinking about what they post/publish.
 
Just like it seems obvious that instead of trying to jump from the track onto the platform, the victim should have run away/run over to the other side/ducked under the platform edge/laid between the rails, etc.
The difference is that the victim had been thrown off the platform and down into the tracks. I would not expect anyone to be thinking calmly and clearly at that point. Unless I’m mistaken the photographer had not been arguing with anyone, had not been pushed by anyone, and had not been tossed off the platform and down onto the tracks. His ability to ready his camera, steady the frame, and focus the lens implies he wasn't frozen by confusion and concern like the victim may have been.

Now, it could be that the photographer is lying about certain details in order to try and minimize the criticism thrown his way. But it's also possible that what he's saying was true, at least as his brain was figuring during the few seconds he had to react.
Nobody is expecting random strangers to be heroes, whether or not they have cameras or flashlights or bullhorns or torches. It was Mr. Abbasi’s calm and deliberate decision to sell someone else’s misery for profit and fame after the fact that shows even when his head is clear his morality is still full of fog and haze. If he didn't want to be criticized with a crash course in blow back then maybe he shouldn't have sold his macabre photo to a scummy tabloid. If he had kept his photos between himself and the investigators none of this unpleasant criticism would have happened. As for my opinion being disqualified simply because I wasn't there I guess it never occurred to you that your own opinion fails to meet the same high standard. In fact virtually nothing in this thread meets that standard.
 
I'm sure that the photographer was thinking/hopping that by flashing the operator that he would realize that there was danger ahead and apply the brakes sooner.
You're sure huh?
Based upon the reports that I had seen as of this morning, yes, I'm sure.
So watching a softball morning news segment is enough for you to be certain but when anyone disagrees with your hypothetical assessment suddenly it's "You weren't there and we don't know what, if anything anyone did to try to help him." How convenient.
I know that it's hard for you to accept logic and that you love to try to find the obscure and ridiculous in anything; but when the man stands up on live TV and announces that he was hoping to attract the attention of the train operator with the flash; then yes I'm sure that's what he was thinking.

Now, is it possible that he only thought of that after the fact? Sure! But regardless of whether he thought of that as a cover story or if he really was thinking of it at the time of the incident, I am sure that he thought of it! He told us so on live TV!

Waving your arms frantically might get the operator's attention.
Not a chance! Unlikely that the operator would have seen waving arms that far away. Subway stations are nearly 2 blocks long. Waving & flashing lights would be far more effective in this case.
(1) Which appendage is doing the waving in your example?
Huh?

(2) How likely do you think it is that the sudden repetition of bright flashes was at least as distracting to the apparently confused and struggling VICTIM as it was to the train operator?
Very unlikely. Again TO's are trained to react to flashing lights as a sign of danger. I've personally seen TO's move their hand to hover over the mushroom simple because someone took a flash photo of a train entering the station. A few even backed off on the power just in case.

Yes, it is possible that the flashes made things worse for the already confused victim. No one will ever know in this case.

(3) Does seeing no benefit whatsoever change your mind about the futility of using a generic camera flash to signal the operator?
There is no futility here; except maybe in explaining things to you. Sorry! Again, flashes of anything would call the attention of the motorman to what's ahead and perhaps get him to slap that mushroom a few seconds earlier than he might have otherwise done. And seconds matter here. My understanding of things is that Mr. Han was pinned by the first car. That means that had the TO hit the Schroom even 5 to 10 seconds sooner, Mr. Han would probably still be alive today.
 
What sort of safety minded source is that kind of advice coming from?
Assuming that I wasn't dealing directly with the victim, I can assure you that I would have been running down that platform waving my mag light at the TO hoping to get him to hit the schroom as soon as possible!
Just like the photographer who somehow managed to get crystal clear images while running and waving carefully setting up his lucky photo for a quick payday.
First, it's nothing like it at all, and it is decidedly unfair of you to suggest such.

Second, there are no indications that the photographer was running or waving anything.

Third, you have zero evidence that he "carefully set up that photo." I could have snapped that photo with my iPhone without setting up.

For those who are still confused enough to think the folks on the platform were doing all they could to save this man's life, this is how it's done...
You weren't there and we don't know what, if anything anyone did to try to help him.
Neither were you, but that didn't stop you from telling us how sure you were about what was going on in this guy's head, no matter how nonsensical that sounds.
It's not nonsense when I watched the man make the statement on live TV.

Again, we can debate about whether he thought of it at the time of the incident or if he thought of it after the fact. But there is no question that he thought of it.
 
The Good News in this Sad Situation is that the "Thug" who ("Allegedly "as the Lawyers make people say!)Murdered this Poor Innocent Guy has been Arrested! :excl: As has been said, no-one who has ever been faced with an Instant Life-Death Situation really knows how they will re-act until it actually happens! Ive had several such happenings in my Life and I think I'd be Terrfied and maybe Freeze-up if someone pushed me in front of an on coming Fast Train! Shock is a Strange thing! :help:

As to the So -called Photographer and the Sleazy Tabloid, I think the saying in the Media is still: "If it Bleeds, it Leads!" :(
 
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I know that it's hard for you to accept logic and that you love to try to find the obscure and ridiculous in anything; but when the man stands up on live TV and announces that he was hoping to attract the attention of the train operator with the flash; then yes I'm sure that's what he was thinking.
You didn’t actually dispute my point. All you did was remind us that Mr. Abbasi was on live television pleading for compassion and inform us that this was somehow enough to make you certain as to what was going on in his head. Now you're changing your tune slightly to say that you're only certain his mind has to think up words before his mouth can express them. Yeah, I don't think anyone was actually disputing that you have to actually think of a lie before you can articulate it, but thanks for the straw man retort. In my view his choice to take photos during a lethal crisis and especially to then sell those photos for fame and profit after the fact was a much stronger piece of evidence for me.

Now, is it possible that he only thought of that after the fact? Sure! But regardless of whether he thought of that as a cover story or if he really was thinking of it at the time of the incident, I am sure that he thought of it! He told us so on live TV!
That’s not really the same thing is it? In one case he’s frantically trying to save someone else’s life. In the other case he’s frantically trying to save his own honor after financially benefiting from the death of a stranger. Maybe to you that’s an irrelevant consideration but to me those are two entirely different situations that speak volumes about what sort of character Mr. Abbasi is likely to be.

Waving your arms frantically might get the operator's attention.
Not a chance! Unlikely that the operator would have seen waving arms that far away. Subway stations are nearly 2 blocks long. Waving & flashing lights would be far more effective in this case.
(1) Which appendage is doing the waving in your example?
Huh?
I was looking for “arms” here, just like I had suggested. I even posted video of people doing exactly as I described whereby the subway is able to stop early and actually save a life. I guess in your view that kind of general advice is worthless because every station is so incredibly different from one another.

I've personally seen TO's move their hand to hover over the mushroom simple because someone took a flash photo of a train entering the station. A few even backed off on the power just in case.
Too bad correlation does not imply causation or you’d be a genius.

Yes, it is possible that the flashes made things worse for the already confused victim. No one will ever know in this case.
Well, unless Mr. Abbasi goes on live television to say the victim was unaffected by his photographs. At which point one of us may suddenly be sure it must be true.

(3) Does seeing no benefit whatsoever change your mind about the futility of using a generic camera flash to signal the operator?
There is no futility here; except maybe in explaining things to you. Sorry!
Sorry you're having a difficult time explaining your mind reading abilities to a non-believer.
 
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His ability to ready his camera, steady the frame, and focus the lens implies he wasn't frozen by confusion and concern like the victim may have been.
I think you're greatly overestimating the amount of thought needed to take the picture.

I can't say I would have the presence of mind to do much of anything if I were in the same situation (which is why I asked questions about how to avoid getting injured if you end up on the tracks upthread), but if I end up with a picture of a newsworthy event such as that one, I don't see where it's immoral to make it available. It's an absolutely tragic picture knowing what's about to happen, but I'm not sure why you're railing against it being published.

Heck, who knows, maybe the extra publicity on the story because of the picture being published help lead to the killer being caught?
 
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