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Sumitomo/Siemens Contract for 137 Cars (former bi-levels)


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#1081 railiner

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 11:23 PM

 

I haven't been following this long thread except here and there... so please pardon me for asking...if the planned design failed, why couldn't they just 'dust off' the last bi-level California Car, or Superliner design, and build more of those, instead of 3 more years to engineer an all new, untested design? :unsure:

The California cars currently in service don’t meet the specifications laid out by the consortium of states.

 

What are the differences, and couldn't they be modified somewhat without a drastic re-engineering?


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#1082 CCC1007

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Posted 10 May 2018 - 11:52 PM

 

I haven't been following this long thread except here and there... so please pardon me for asking...if the planned design failed, why couldn't they just 'dust off' the last bi-level California Car, or Superliner design, and build more of those, instead of 3 more years to engineer an all new, untested design? :unsure:

The California cars currently in service don’t meet the specifications laid out by the consortium of states.
 
What are the differences, and couldn't they be modified somewhat without a drastic re-engineering?
Its my understanding that they would need to loose 9 tons, be fully ADA compliant, both down and up stairs, and retain the shape of the passenger compartment in the event of an end on crash.

#1083 railiner

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:25 AM

Isn't ADA accessability to the lower level seating and restrooms sufficient in the present cars?   And it seems unrealistic to expect to lose that much weight and not sacrifice strength....


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#1084 CCC1007

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 12:26 AM

Isn't ADA accessability to the lower level seating and restrooms sufficient in the present cars?   And it seems unrealistic to expect to lose that much weight and not sacrifice strength....

Again, just my understanding of the situation that led up to the structural failure only one ton short of passing...

#1085 Ziv

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Posted 11 May 2018 - 07:22 AM

ADA requirements trump most other aspects of design now. Unless your cars are grandfathered in and as the years go by, fewer and fewer of them will be.

And, yes, common sense would tend to indicate that decreasing weight by 9 tons would make meeting the buff test standard very difficult without spending more money on advanced design or more expensive materials. But if the acquisition board doesn't know what they are doing they can demand anything they want and then blame the supplier when the supplier tries their best and falls short. If each car weighs 9 tons less then the acceleration figures would have made a noticeable change in scheduled times for routes with a lot of stops, but lighter generally means less robust or more expensive.

Flip side of the coin, Nippon Sharyo knew the bid was going to be very tough to deliver and made it anyway.

 

Isn't ADA accessability to the lower level seating and restrooms sufficient in the present cars?   And it seems unrealistic to expect to lose that much weight and not sacrifice strength....



#1086 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:29 PM

As I understand it the older bi-level designs in addition to not meeting crush tests and ADA requirements (which are, in and of themselves, separate items), the old designs were licensed as it was and weren't able to be relicensed (as in getting a license to produce a copyright design) - and out of date of course.


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#1087 jis

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:38 PM

The old design does meet the crush test standard for trailer cars since that has not changed in over 50 years. So your understanding is at least partly wrong.

#1088 railiner

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 12:19 AM

And doesn't Bombardier hold the old Budd and Pullman Standard design right's?


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#1089 bcanedy

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 12:34 AM

And doesn't Bombardier hold the old Budd and Pullman Standard design right's?

You’re thinking of the Superliner plans. The California Cars were built by Morrison-Knudsen / Amerail for the first generation and Alstom for the second generation. I’m not sure who owns those designs, but the Nippon-Sharyo cars would have been the third generation of California Cars.
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#1090 jrud

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 03:56 AM

The May NGEC minutes are out. The only real news appears to be the progress is being made on building the first carshell, and on the design of the cab and cafe cars. http://www.highspeed...ly 5-31-18.docx

Note that toward the end of the minutes they say that a Request for Information is being prepared by Amtrak for passenger cars. This is in addition to the RFP for locomotives.

BTW - a MARC train with Charger #86 just went by my Metro rail train as it headed into DC on the Camden line.

Edited by jrud, 07 June 2018 - 05:23 AM.

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#1091 seat38a

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 11:05 PM

The old design does meet the crush test standard for trailer cars since that has not changed in over 50 years. So your understanding is at least partly wrong.

Are you talking about the CAB cars? If so, would adding a second engine or a Cabbage Car solve this? Is this by Brightline is running with two Chargers?



#1092 jis

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Posted 10 June 2018 - 07:13 AM

The old design does meet the crush test standard for trailer cars since that has not changed in over 50 years. So your understanding is at least partly wrong.

Are you talking about the CAB cars? If so, would adding a second engine or a Cabbage Car solve this? Is this by Brightline is running with two Chargers?
No. I was not talking of cab cars in that comment.

#1093 jrud

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 08:27 PM

June NGEC minutes with some information on progress with finalizing cab car details, etc. http://www.highspeed...ly 6-30-18.docx

Edited by jrud, 07 July 2018 - 08:28 PM.


#1094 jrud

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 04:05 PM

Its free access period will end soon. However, there is some new information including a nice detailed drawing at http://railcolornews...trans-and-idot/ .

#1095 seat38a

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 05:55 PM

I mentioned this in another post also but according to the longtime conductor on the Surfliner, she said the plan at the moment is to deploy the single level equipment up in NorCal and redeploy the State owned Surfliner Cars from NorCal down to SoCal for use on the Surfliner service. Not sure about the California Cars currently used up in NorCal.



#1096 railiner

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Posted 30 July 2018 - 09:49 PM

Whichever, it would seem to make sense to keep all of a type together in one maintenance base, I suppose....


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#1097 Metra Electric Rider

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Posted 01 August 2018 - 08:24 PM

So do we have a concrete delivery date yet? I'm excited to see them start arriving here in the Midwest!


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#1098 CCC1007

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 01:42 AM

So do we have a concrete delivery date yet? I'm excited to see them start arriving here in the Midwest!

My understanding of the timeline for the first deliveries is 2020-2021.



#1099 MisterUptempo

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Posted 15 August 2018 - 02:12 AM

So do we have a concrete delivery date yet? I'm excited to see them start arriving here in the Midwest!

If all remains on schedule, the first car will be delivered to Caltrans in March, 2020. The first IDOT/Midwest car to be delivered in July, 2020. The final IDOT/Midwest car is scheduled for March, 2023 delivery, and Caltrans gets their final car in September, 2023.

 

Also, just a quick update. From the August 14, 2018 Section 305 Executive Board meeting, the following-

3g4WUrr.jpg

The full report can be found here - http://www.highspeed...14-18 DRAFT.doc

 

For anyone who might be able to access it, Revision B1 of the 305-003 single-level specifications was recently released. I'd be curious how much the specs may have been altered to accommodate Siemens.


Edited by MisterUptempo, 15 August 2018 - 02:14 AM.

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#1100 NSC1109

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 11:50 AM

Just read the full file. Looks like there will be traps for the cars after all. I'm curious to see how the door/trap combo will look in reality compared to the prototype images we've seen. 


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