Jump to content




Help Support AmtrakTrains.com by donating using the link above or becoming a Supporting Member.

Photo

Sumitomo/Siemens Contract for 137 Cars (former bi-levels)


  • Please log in to reply
1143 replies to this topic

#1061 jrud

jrud

    Service Attendant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 80 posts

Posted 05 March 2018 - 06:12 AM

Unfortunately new rolling stock procurements can be clocked with a multi-year calendar!! While it is important to issue a Rolling stock RFP this year, Amtrak still has to survive on what they have, including Viewliner 2s for at least three or more years. Siemens has a production line in place and Stadler will have a production facility up and running soon for its KISS EMU cars to be built for Caltrain. Amtrak's new 5-Year plan mentio new the possibility of EMU passenger cars on the NEC. Starlet also has regular single-level passenger cars that can be offered.

Fixing up a few more of the wreck repairs and putting them in revenue service will at least help the spare ratio to keep the fleet in good shape.

 
Stadler is a bit of a wild card in the USA passenger car world with their Utah factory. They don't seem to make many traditional passenger cars (carriages in British-English), but they do make some (e.g., https://wwwstadlerra.../wady0814en.pdf and https://wwwstadlerra...e2/wrm0816e.pdf). However, many of the intermediate cars on their multiple-units are unpowered and very similar to cars in a trainset. For example, two cars are unpowered in the CALTRAIN EMU (https://wwwstadlerra.../kcal0716us.pdf) and all the intermediate cars are unpowered on this Austria Higher-Speed EMU (https://wwwstadlerra..._dowbz0110e.pdf). Stadler appears to be very aggressive about their future in the USA.
 
CAF's European operation is also making modern passenger cars including cars for the UK market with similar accessibility laws. If they were able to leverage the USA plant, they might be a contender outside of just more Viewliner production. The cars include sleepers, coaches and cab cars (British-English - driving trailers). There is some information at http://www.caf.net/e...talle.php?p=285 and (http://www.caf.net/e...talle.php?p=277).

This my long winded way of saying Siemens is only one option for future purchases even if this Caltrans/IDOT buy gives them an advantage.


Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum
  • mlanoue likes this

#1062 Ngotwalt

Ngotwalt

    Service Attendant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 59 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 05 March 2018 - 02:41 PM

So looking at this slideshow...I think it's kinda safe to say that these cars will more than likely go to the Northern California Routes...since Pacific Surfliners offer Pacific Business Class and the Caltrans cars do not have any business class cars. Unless they plan to do away with business class on the Surfliners, which I doubt.

 

Cheers,

Nick


Amtrak mileage, who knows? Approximately 250,000 miles. Keystones, Pennsylvanian, Three Rivers, Broadway Limited, Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited (NYC&BOS), Regionals, Acela Express, Silver Meteor, Silver Star, Palmetto, Auto Train, Crescent, City of New Orleans, Sunset Limited, Texas Eagle, California Zephyr, Desert Wind, Southwest Chief, Empire Builder (SEA&PDX), Coast Starlight, Cascades, Wolverines, the International, the Maple Leaf, Adirondack, Ethan Allen Express, Downeaster, and Surfliners.
Outside the US, VIA: The Canadian, The Ocean, The Corridor QC to Sarnia; Rocky Mountaineer; Western Europe: The Deerstalker (London-Inverness), IC125s, IC225s, Pendolinos, Eurostars, TGV, Thalys, CNL's Pollux (Amsterdam-Munich), Glacier Express, Ave (BCN-Madrid), RZD Moscow-Chita train, Astrakhan-Volgograd train.

#1063 jis

jis

    Engineer

  • Gathering Team Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,515 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Space Coast, Florida, Area code 3-2-1
  • Interests:Trains, Planes and Travel

Posted 05 March 2018 - 02:50 PM

Somehow I had the impression that they are primarily targeted for San Joaquin Service, with perhaps some also deployed in the Capitol Corridor (maybe).



#1064 Eric S

Eric S

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,411 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Milwaukee

Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:13 AM

Somehow I had the impression that they are primarily targeted for San Joaquin Service, with perhaps some also deployed in the Capitol Corridor (maybe).

 

I did too. I think someone had linked to a presentation or report from the agency that plans and operates the San Joaquins stating it was basically resigned to the likelihood of operating single-level equipment.



#1065 jrud

jrud

    Service Attendant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 80 posts

Posted 07 March 2018 - 06:56 AM

Somehow I had the impression that they are primarily targeted for San Joaquin Service, with perhaps some also deployed in the Capitol Corridor (maybe).

 
I did too. I think someone had linked to a presentation or report from the agency that plans and operates the San Joaquins stating it was basically resigned to the likelihood of operating single-level equipment.

Perhaps:
https://www.sjjpa.co...eview-Draft.pdf



Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

#1066 frequentflyer

frequentflyer

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 525 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 March 2018 - 02:39 PM

 

Somehow I had the impression that they are primarily targeted for San Joaquin Service, with perhaps some also deployed in the Capitol Corridor (maybe).

 

I did too. I think someone had linked to a presentation or report from the agency that plans and operates the San Joaquins stating it was basically resigned to the likelihood of operating single-level equipment.

 

So where do the SJ bilevels go too?



#1067 Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato

    Lead Service Attendant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 189 posts

Posted 09 March 2018 - 08:40 AM

Somehow I had the impression that they are primarily targeted for San Joaquin Service, with perhaps some also deployed in the Capitol Corridor (maybe).

 
I did too. I think someone had linked to a presentation or report from the agency that plans and operates the San Joaquins stating it was basically resigned to the likelihood of operating single-level equipment.
So where do the SJ bilevels go too?

Probably the Surfliner, or if Capitol Corridor needs extra capacity then they could stay up north.

#1068 neroden

neroden

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,699 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Ithaca, NY
  • Interests:Please feel free to moderate my posts

Posted 11 March 2018 - 05:44 PM

The Surfliner can't afford to run single-level equipment as it is impacting on the schedule already (and they can't raise the platforms because the commuter equipment is bilevel).  The San Joaquins have enough slop in the schedules that they can afford to run single-levels, so they're going to get them.


--Nathanael--

Please feel free to moderate my posts.

#1069 jrud

jrud

    Service Attendant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 80 posts

Posted 14 March 2018 - 05:38 PM

With the Siemens trainsets on the San Joaquins is it certain the the driver/engineer will be in a combination Cab, baggage and passenger car (Cabbager?)?

The cab car appears to have a box structure above the coupler on the driving end. Is this a crush box for crash protection? Even if the cab is essentially a Charger cab, the fundamental structure is probably not as strong as the locomotive. Extra protection could be required. The future Caltrain EMUs have box-like structures on each side of the coupler that probably serve a similar purpose.


Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

#1070 DSS&A

DSS&A

    Lead Service Attendant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 247 posts

Posted 03 April 2018 - 07:57 AM

Hi,
The March 2018 project status report is posted at this link below.

http://www.highspeed...5committee.aspx

Edited by DSS&A, 07 May 2018 - 04:56 PM.


#1071 DSS&A

DSS&A

    Lead Service Attendant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 247 posts

Posted 07 May 2018 - 04:57 PM

Hi,
The April monthly update is now posted. Production of the first car shell began on April 6th!!

http://www.highspeed...5Committee.aspx

(Corrected link)

Edited by DSS&A, 07 May 2018 - 09:25 PM.


#1072 Eric S

Eric S

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,411 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Milwaukee

Posted 07 May 2018 - 05:24 PM

That doesn't seem to be the correct link.



#1073 keelhauled

keelhauled

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 699 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Camorr

Posted 07 May 2018 - 06:05 PM

I think that this should work as a direct link to the .docx download. If not, it is available at NGEC's website.


Edited by keelhauled, 07 May 2018 - 06:06 PM.

We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just stuff that works.


#1074 jrud

jrud

    Service Attendant

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 80 posts

Posted 08 May 2018 - 08:08 PM

I think that this should work as a direct link to the .docx download. If not, it is available at NGEC's website.


The increased participation by Brightline may bring in more real world experience for both the Chargers and the passenger cars. The presentation said they would start production in May. So, I guess they are a bit ahead.

#1075 Metra Electric Rider

Metra Electric Rider

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 627 posts

Posted 10 May 2018 - 11:12 AM

Any word (or speculation) on when we'll start seeing the new equipment in the Midwest?


SJ - Norra Stambanan, Nordvästra stambanan, Södra stambanan, Dalabanan

NSB- Bergensbanen, Kongsvingerbanen, Rørosbanen, Dovrebanen, Flåmsbana, Roa–Hønefossbanen

Amtrak - Floridian, San Francisco Zephyr, Southwest Limited, Illini, State House


#1076 Eric S

Eric S

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,411 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Milwaukee

Posted 10 May 2018 - 11:49 AM

Maybe a few months ago, someone linked to a presentation that showed the Midwest cars being delivered from mid-2020 through early-2023.



#1077 CSXfoamer1997

CSXfoamer1997

    Conductor

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 505 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 May 2018 - 07:14 PM

I've been wondering all this time, why did they switch from an order of bi-levels to single levels?

 

If you ask me, it kind of makes no sense, because think of when you mix single-levels with bi-levels. Besides, as you may know, bi-levels have more passenger capacity.



#1078 RPC

RPC

    Lead Service Attendant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 198 posts

Posted 10 May 2018 - 07:28 PM

I've been wondering all this time, why did they switch from an order of bi-levels to single levels?

 

If you ask me, it kind of makes no sense, because think of when you mix single-levels with bi-levels. Besides, as you may know, bi-levels have more passenger capacity.

Well, the original order was for bi-levels - the vendor had an epic fail at buff test, then took years to decide they couldn't actually build them. The choice at this point is between getting the single-level cars (essentially Brightline coaches with traps) quickly or having Siemens engineer a bi-level from scratch (estimate ~3 years). 



#1079 railiner

railiner

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,533 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queens, NY
  • Interests:All public transportation....land, sea, and air

Posted 10 May 2018 - 11:09 PM

I haven't been following this long thread except here and there... so please pardon me for asking...if the planned design failed, why couldn't they just 'dust off' the last bi-level California Car, or Superliner design, and build more of those, instead of 3 more years to engineer an all new, untested design? :unsure:


metroblue?

okay on the blue!

#1080 CCC1007

CCC1007

    Engineer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,683 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 May 2018 - 11:17 PM

I haven't been following this long thread except here and there... so please pardon me for asking...if the planned design failed, why couldn't they just 'dust off' the last bi-level California Car, or Superliner design, and build more of those, instead of 3 more years to engineer an all new, untested design? :unsure:

The California cars currently in service don’t meet the specifications laid out by the consortium of states.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users